Talk:Bob Windle

Bob Windle is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

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Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 11, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
October 28, 2008	Featured article candidate	Promoted

Current status: Featured article

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Biography assessment rating comment[edit]

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 20:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
This sentence, Talbot, who referred to Windle as the greyhound due to his thin and angular build. is incomplete
Fixed.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
In the sentence However, Windle enjoyed his time in the United States, enjoying the additional emphasis on relays and team spirit and the social life that it entailed., is that in the source, or is that assuming he enjoyed his stay in the US?
Yeah, it was. I reprinted the page again directly after it for you. If anything looks weird, just whack {{cn}} wherever you want and I'll put a page label next to it. I'm not afraid of having footnotes all over the place.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
There are sentences such as In the 400 m freestyle heats, Windle made a misjudgement,..., where "made a misjudgement" sounds like a POV more than a fact
Well I elaborated in the next sentence, but I moved it into the same sentence to have it more factual in closer proximity - he tried to take it easy in the heats to save energy for the final, but he saved too much energy and was eliminated in the heats - his heat swim was 4s slower than his PB. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 08:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Not a single image, which is one of the main problems. I understand that it is probonly very hard to find an image, though.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

It is a very interesting read, and I have learned quite a lot by reading it, which is what an encyclopediac article is suppose do to. However, there a few instances where there are incomlete. Also, there are some sentences where there could potentially be POV or OR, but they can easily be addressed. Another thing that prevents this article from being promoted to good article status is the lack of images. So, while it is a nice article, there are some issues, so I've put this article On-hold for further improvements. Thank you for your hard work in improving the article thus far, and good luck in improving it to Good Article status. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 16:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the image is the main thing missing with most sportspeople who have retired so we can't take photos as spectators, and are too young to have expired from the public domain. In Australia, he would need to have been photographed before 1955, but we only have pictures of him after that. Under FU policy, they can't be used unless it shows something hard to fathom, and the picture is just a portrait of him, rather than a historic moment. This is similar to a longer explanation I gave at Talk:Quietly Confident Quartet. Do feel free to whack in any more dodgy sentences you want clarified. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 08:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the most part, the writing is now pretty good. As for the citation necessary tags, everything that I can tell is sourced and accurite, and the NPOV issueshave been smoothed out. The only problem now is the image. That really is hard to get an image when the circumstances are similar to this, so I don't know at all where an image would be found (if it can, at all). However, I have found some images on Flickr, although I don't know the copyright status. Again, everything else is pretty good, so it would be a shame is this article fails just because of the image. I will let you know if I can find anything. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 13:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is an image, but again, I don't know the copyright status. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 13:22, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can use a copyrighted image of him during his career because it is irreplaceable, illustrates the topic best, and can be added under the fair use guidelines provided a lengthy reason is given. You could only use one of these type of pictures. See Wikipedia:Non-free content.User:calbear22 (talk) 19:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did do that to a few pictures of Ian Thorpe swimming and jumping up and down in an unusual manner, except when it was on the front page as the FA, quite a few people, including the main Fair Use admins, deleted all of them and it sparked a lot of criticism for being the worst FA of time and a PR disaster etc, so I'd rather stay on teh conservative side. The fiar use gurus said that "a picture of him doing freestyle isn't anything hard to fathom" etc, whereas if it was an unusual looking event that was hard to visualise - they did allow the pic of Thorpe falling over into the pool. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 07:11, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry they gave you a hard time. Thorpe is different though because you used multiple pictures and he had only just retired. With Windle, he retired a long time ago. Getting a picture of him now just wouldn't do the article justice. The picture situation on Wikipedia can be so difficult.User:calbear22 (talk) 08:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I did use multiple pics, but Ed2gs kept the falling over pic because he thought it was the only one that was "hard to visualise". With the other ones, he just went, there is nothing here that is unusual, and citing the rule about not having FU simply for having a mugshot of a BLP per the replaceable fair use policy on BLP - WP:NFCC. The only pics in the book and on Flickr are the mugshot unfortunately. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 08:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is actually no pciture of him swimming in that book. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 08:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, there are no free Flickr images tagged with his name: [1]. Also, per WP:GA?, images are not required for GA status, so this can be passed without an image. In my opinion, since he has retired and is not in the "public light" much anymore, a fair use image could be justified and rationalised. But you don't need it for GA. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 08:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
While there are no images, apperently they aren't a requirement for GA
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

They only issue is the lack of images, but because none can be found, it is good enough to pass. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 19:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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