Talk:Boston Marathon bombing

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The shootout section has referencing issues[edit]

The report finds that the agency coordinted fine, it was the officers as operators that were not coordinating well with one another or acting individually rather than as a unit: A 50-page report on the manhunt produced by Harvard Kennedy School's Program on Crisis Leadership found that a lack of coordination between the police agencies involved put the public at excessive risk during the shootout.[105]

"But the report found that response suffered when organizational lines broke down, notably during the shootout with the bombing suspects in Watertown and again during the capture of Tsarnaev. Police officers “operating as individuals, rather than in disciplined units” created dangerous situations that “threatened both responders and bystanders,” researchers found. " Zoratao (talk) 15:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

This attack needs uniformity with the 1999 David Copeland attack in the UK as a standard.[edit]

A bomb goes off from a source attacking the public, because of a political/religious agenda.

I just described both attacks.

They are exactly the same thing, and frankly they both need to be viewed as such. Lets have some uniformity here. Call them both terrorism/mass murder or neither.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

Given the discussion in Talk:David Copeland#Not a terrorist..., i.e. Copeland was tried for murder not for terrorism, and that I can't find any reliable sources calling it "mass murder", I'm inclined to think that "neither" is the correct choice for Wikipedia-POV writing, except in reference to specific laws which specifically define terrorism, which don't exist in this case. And, relative to this position, the article is pretty good at not using the term "terrorism", outside of quotes, except for the "attack type" infobox entry, which I changed to lone wolf. There's also Category:Terrorist incidents in the United States in 2013; I'm thinking that should probably turn into a "Lone Wolf Incidents" category (there's a long list of links on the lone wolf page which can move into there), but I'm too lazy to do that. Finally, there's Portal:Terrorism; I'm going to pass on judging that, since WP:ALSO is pretty vague. In terms of structural uniformity, I think editing the Copeland article to match this one's layout would be a better idea than the reverse; this one has been edited and restructured dozens of times, and has 500+ sources, while Copeland has <500 edits and relatively little information. --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I undid you edits to Boston Marathon bombings as the article you linked to describes a person not an act. Therefore lone wolf is not the type but would be an acceptable description of the perpetrators. XFEM Skier (talk) 18:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
So, from headlines like "Holder fears 'lone wolf' terrorist attack", it seems to me like "lone wolf" can indeed be an attack type. Yes, the lone wolf article doesn't reflect this, but that article has a bunch of other problems (e.g. the giant list of links) so I'm not really convinced. --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:33, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
More headlines if you aren't convinced: "Experts seek clues in London 'lone wolf’ attack", "Obama: 'Lone Wolf' Attack is Biggest Concern", etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathnerd314159 (talkcontribs) 18:45, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Can you clarify what exactly are the changes to this article that you are proposing? AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:49, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, to this article, just https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Boston_Marathon_bombings&diff=612662007&oldid=612392027. But then I probably will rewrite the "Lone Wolf" article; I haven't really decided on the changes there. --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
'Lone wolf' seems normally to be a description applied to individuals acting alone - which isn't the case here. And we don't use Wikipedia articles as sources anyway. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:11, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
From what I can tell, "lone wolf" was coined to contrast with large terrorist organizations, e.g. even the low estimates on Al-Qaeda#Field_operatives have >100 people, so in this case the 2 people or whatever is still "small" enough for "lone wolf" to apply. Also, Wikipedia wasn't my source, my source was [1], which says "The devices used in the Boston Marathon attack Monday are typical of the 'lone wolf'". If you want I could use more recent sources like [2] , where the source states flatly "This ... is called 'lone wolf' terrorism—it's not attached to any organization", or [3], "The al-Qaida magazine Inspire has published a special edition ... warning the West of more 'Lone Wolf' terrorist attacks." By my count, that's 3 reliable sources using the term "lone wolf" to refer to the attack type of the bombings. Edit: and here's an exact answer to your question: "Whether “lone wolves” can logically come in pairs, the Boston perpetrators fit the category." --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 22:52, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Apparently, this is the place to discuss this. Seems a few months old and indirectly related, but good enough, I guess.
If we have the perpetrator saying it was revenge, and nobody saying it was terrorism or even positing political coercion goals, we're in no place to call it terrorism. That's original research, plain and simple. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:05, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
You're entirely mistaken if you think what the suspect says matters. Here's a source describing it as terrorism as recently as today. [4]. Or this one written soon after the attack[5]. Or the federal indictment, which alleges the suspect "committed the offense after substantial planning and premeditation to cause the death of a person and commit an act of terrorism" [6]. Calidum Talk To Me 00:33, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
It wasn't my mistake, the editor who reverted me cited the exsanguinated boat scrawling to justify it. But of course it matters. He was the one who did the thing, who knows better why? The prosecution's opinion matters, too, can't have a trial without two sides. But this isn't something they know, it's something they intend to prove in a court of law. Hasn't happened yet, so still just allegations.
I've moved the allegations to the part about him being accused and pleading not guilty, for proper context. Still in the lead, visibly blue, but without the presumption of guilt in Wikipedia's voice. Also changed it to "homegrown terrorism", simply because that's the article name (also the term used in the Atlantic piece). Does that seem fair? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:03, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Trail[edit]

what the trial show? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.90.196.227 (talk) 08:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

In English? We use sentences here. Trackinfo (talk) 08:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Deer trail? They are not even in season right now. And as already stated, this is the ENGLISH wiki - please understand ... if possible. HammerFilmFan (talk) 19:58, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Two months after your question, the trial concluded with his lawyers saying that they they were unable to say why the bombing was conducted. 2601:600:8500:B2D9:612B:3A31:E262:B037 (talk) 01:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

5th victim?[edit]

Should we yet consider Officer Dennis Simmonds of the Boston Police Department as the 5th victim? A state medical panel has linked his death to injuries he sustained in the Watertown Shootout http://www.wcvb.com/news/boston-police-officers-death-may-be-5th-death-linked-to-marathon-bombing/32965112 Kilonum (talk) 00:43, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

That's not quite what it says. Linked to "an injury sustained in the course of his employment". Watertown was one, but he'd also had a car crash in 2010 and something through his windshield in 2012. If I had to lean toward one of those three, it'd be the shootout, but that's not certain, hence the "may" in the story.
I'd wait for something a little more definite. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:49, May 16, 2015 (UTC)
The article linked to in the current text [7] says "...bombers Tamerlan and his brother Dzhokhar Tsarnaev engaged in a gun battle with police and tossed homemade bombs. Simmonds suffered a head injury in those blasts." But [8] says "...Simmonds 'was involved in a shoot-out and he was crouched for a long period of time. Once the scene was cleared he went to St. Elizabeth's Hospital' by ambulance" and "during the Watertown shootout in 2013, Simmonds injured his hand, back and ankle and suffered blurriness in his vision. He was relieved of his duties for a month." The more detailed account is the latter, and it doesn't sound like direct injury by grenade is correct. Andyvphil (talk) 03:11, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move May 23, 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain t/c 20:41, 3 June 2015 (UTC)



Boston Marathon bombingsBoston Marathon bombing – While there were two bombs used, it is correct to describe the event as bombing because it is a single event. This is supported by a number of reliable sources, including the Boston Globe Boston Herald Wall Street Journal NY Times Guardian Washington Post Los Angeles Times Chicago Tribune Fox News CNN NBC News among others. Calidum T|C 06:32, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Oppose. ONR (talk) 16:23, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
    We don't vote; you need to provide a reason for opposing. Calidum T|C 17:01, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Per nom - it was effectively one bomb event with two separate but coordinated detonations. --MASEM (t) 17:06, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support - Two bombs, but one event. For example: 1993 World Trade Center bombing - Multiply bombs, one event. CookieMonster755 (talk) 18:41, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Clearly it was one attack that involved multiple bombs. So a bombing with two bombs. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
"A bombing with two bombs," did you mean to support the move then? Calidum T|C 20:14, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Edit request on 23 June 2015[edit]

A protected redirect, Boston marathon bombings, needs a redirect category (rcat) template removed and two added. Please modify it as follows:

  • from this:
#REDIRECT [[Boston Marathon bombing]]
{{redr|from other capitalisation|R to plural}}
  • to this:
#REDIRECT [[Boston Marathon bombing]]

{{redr|from other capitalisation|from plural|unprintworthy}}
  • WHEN YOU COPY & PASTE, PLEASE LEAVE THE SKIPPED LINE BLANK FOR READABILITY.

Template Redr is an alias for the {{This is a redirect}} template, which is used to sort redirects into one or more categories. No protection rcat is needed, and if {{pp-protected}} and/or {{pp-move}} suffice, the This is a redirect template will detect the protection level(s) and categorize the redirect automatically. (Also, the categories will be automatically removed when and if protection is lifted.) Thank you in advance! – Paine  14:10, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

  • Yes check.svg Done. --MASEM (t) 14:19, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much, MASEM! and Best of Everything to You and Yours! – Paine  14:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

US/Russia cooperation[edit]

Current article gives biased portrayal. Both US and Russian intelligence organizations did not answer some requests for information, according to this article: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/23/russia-s-playing-a-double-game-with-islamic-terror0.html "The FSB then sent a second inquiry, this one to the CIA, seeking more information on the elder Tsarnaev brother. That one never got answered either." It's debatable whether this article should be talking about this subject at all, but if it does, it should be unbiased towards Russia (instead of appearing to 'blame' Russia). 2601:600:8500:B2D9:612B:3A31:E262:B037 (talk) 01:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Appeal[edit]

On the last day possible, Dzhokhar's legal team filed an appeal after the previous 'placeholder' appeal. 14 pages are blacked out. http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/herald_bulldog/2015/08/dzhokhar_tsarnaev_blames_social_media_in_appeal http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2015/08/18/in-appeal-filing-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-blames-venue-social-media-for-conviction/ 2601:600:8500:B2D9:612B:3A31:E262:B037 (talk) 01:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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