Talk:Brat Pack

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Former good article nomineeBrat Pack was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 15, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
June 19, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
July 7, 2009Good article reassessmentNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Less Than Zero[edit]

This is a brat pack movie, no?90.134.56.2 (talk) 19:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, because it starred only one "official" Brat Packer, Andrew McCarthy. If Robert Downey Jr. and James Spader get added to the list through a reliable source, then this movie should be added. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 21:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe movies[edit]

I found this here: http://www.thebratpacksite.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=19b5b2573024a6cd5f158df7aeeb55e1&topic=89.0

Say Anthing... She's Having a Baby. Young Guns Young Guns II The Three Musketeers Flatliners A Few Good Men90.134.56.2 (talk) 19:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the area of the site you referenced is the forum, which is typically not considered a reliable source for an encyclopedia. Further, the particular post that you linked to is posed as a question about the inclusion of these movies, which is no reason at all to consider them for inclusion in the article. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 20:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about the movie `The Outsiders'?[edit]

I have always understood that this movie contained the `core' brat packers? Rob Lowe is in it and so is Eilio Estevez. But what about: Tom Cruise, Ralph Machio, Patrick Swayze, Matt Dillon, etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.144.25 (talk) 20:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Cruise and Matt Dillon are already mentioned in this article. However, none of them meet the commonly accepted definition of "Brat Packers". Please feel free to work into the article any sourced information you have which identifies them with the Brat Pack. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 20:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Tom Cruise is said in the article to have been in "Taps" along with Hutton and didn't appear with core Pack members in any other movies. This is obviously misinformation as Cruise worked with both Emilio Estivez and Rob Lowe in "The Outsiders". 216.208.243.154 (talk) 21:34, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good work[edit]

I can see that a lot of work has been done to bring this article in alignment with Wikipedia policies. I have archived all of the pre-2008 discussion, but thought it might be valuable to keep a list of all the suggested additions of names and movies so we don't have to go through all of the "what about so-and-so?" arguments again. HokieRNB (talk) 18:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actors now listed as "close contributor" based on a reliable source[edit]

  • Matthew Broderick
  • Kiefer Sutherland
  • John Cusack
  • James Spader
  • Robert Downey, Jr.

Movies now listed as "other films" based on the inclusion of "close contributors"[edit]

  • Weird Science
  • Less than Zero

Movies with no core brat packers and thus not mentioned[edit]

  • The Lost Boys
  • Tuff Turf
  • Say Anything
  • Better Off Dead
  • Some Kind of Wonderful

Actors not cited by any reliable source and thus not mentioned[edit]

  • Diane Lane
  • Melissa Gilbert
  • Andie MacDowell
  • Judge Reinhold
  • Elizabeth Perkins
  • Alan Ruck
I'd like to add another category of actors who are cited in the New York Magazine article, but are not listed in this article. They include: Timothy Hutton and Nicolas Cage on the primary list, and Matthew Modine and Kevin Bacon on the "not quite" list. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 18:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Based on this source (Lurie, Karen (2002). "Brat Pack". St. James Encyclopedia of Popular Culture. Gale Group.), I'm moving Jon Cryer from the "not mentioned" to the "close contributors". It also mentions Christian Slater, so add him to the list of "cited but not mentioned" with Hutton and Cage. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 19:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Content removed[edit]

I removed the following paragraph that was added on 7/25/2008. Not only does it have no source to back it up, but it is hopelessly riddled with grammar, spelling, and logical errors. I will gladly add back in the fact that Hutton, Penn, Cryer, and Cruise were the actors originally dubbed "The Brat Pack" if someone can find a source saying that. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 19:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Timothy Hutton, Sean Penn, John Cryer, and Tom Cruise. Were originally credited as having formed the close "clique" of actors. Which soon came to be called "The Brat Pack". Especially in light of Hutton's, Cruse's and Penn's major acting debuts in the film "Taps". Cryer's major acting debut opposite Demi Moore in the film "No Small Affair", marked his major acting debut. Obstensivly both Ally Sheedy and Matthew Broderick were also considered part of the "Brat Pack". Though only Ally Sheedy starred in a film opposite the "official members", outside of her appearance along with Broderick in the film "War Games".

OK, I found the source for Hutton, Penn, and Cruise (crediting Taps as being in the "first Brat Pack movie"). Cryer was not mentioned in this source, and having not made his movie debut until 1984, could not have been among the original group. I've edited the article accordingly. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 14:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recognition[edit]

Is it worth mentioning that no Brat Pack films/members have ever been nominated for (much less won)an Academy Award or Golden Globe (in motion pictures categories)? The only two quasi-major awards (Young Artists Awards) among the whole bunch are C. Thomas Howell (for The Outsiders) and Molly Ringwald (for Sixteen Candles), unless you count Razzies. Does this stray into original research? Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 20:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brat Pack (film)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

I am sorry to say I am failing this article. Here is the review.

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    Needs some copyediting.
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
    Wouldn't hurt to link New York magazine in the lead.
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    No references in the table or below, which is a pretty big part of the article. A few refs wouldn't hurt.
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
    A little bit of non NPOV language.
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    No photos.
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
    See above
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Overall, it needs some work. I hope to see it at WP:GAN soon. Sorry.--LAAFansign review 02:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Responses[edit]

Needs some copyediting.
Which copy specifically needs editing?
Wouldn't hurt to link New York magazine in the lead.
Will do.
No references in the table or below, which is a pretty big part of the article. A few refs wouldn't hurt.
Which specific facts need references?
A little bit of non NPOV language.
Which specific language is non-NPOV?
No photos.
Are photos required for a good article?

In my opinion, this review provided absolutely no help for this article whatsoever. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 19:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Red Dawn[edit]

I wonder if Red Dawn (1984) could/should be included on the 'Other' list as it featured two members (Swayze and Sheen) and, albiet under wartime circumstances, did depict a "coming of age." 75.142.145.1 (talk) 23:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Swayze nor Sheen are considered core members of the Brat Pack. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 12:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've added Red Dawn and Ferris Bueller in the section on other movies, based on citations I was able to find which included them. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 14:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two and A Half Men[edit]

I understand its not a film, but if Emilio Estevez guest stars in the show would that make it somehow related to the Brat Pack? You would have a core member(Emilio Estevez) and multiple close contributors. Additionally, should we mention if there are any other television shows that have a brat pack connection? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.231.6.69 (talk) 14:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with File:St elmo's fire.jpg[edit]

The image File:St elmo's fire.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --05:20, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about?[edit]

Adding anyone to the article who hasn't been cited as being associated with the Brat Pack would be considered original research. It would seem that Jon Cryer, Robert Downey Jr., and James Spader are reasonable to consider on what could be called the "auxilliary" list, based on this definition from AOL's moviefone: "the casts of 'The Breakfast Club' and 'St. Elmo's Fire,' plus a few friends".

What about Kiefer Sutherland or Alan Ruck? If Matthew Broderick is considered a member because of association, then I think these two should be as well. Alan Ruck was in Ferris Bueller's Day Off and Young Guns II. -Shawn Crapo 14:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Sutherland is already included in the article. Ruck should only be added if properly cited, i.e. a reliable source places him in the brat pack. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 16:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"...roughly interchangeable..."[edit]

This phrase, in the opening patagraph, is problematic in several ways.

1. The original New York article uses the phrase "...you can't quite keep (them) straight..." meaning people have trouble remembering which is which. "Roughly interchageable..." implies that they are all about the same, or that any of them could play any of the roles. Very different. And wrong.

2. It is ambiguous in that you can't tell whether this judgement is to be attributed to the author or to New York magazine.

3. It appears to be an opinion or value judgement, but presented as a fact.

I'm not sure how the phrasing could be changed. But it should be addressed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frodosfoot (talk • contribs) 19:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Opinions may vary but I was always under the opinion that one qualification to the brat pack was famous parents, eg: Emilio Esteves and Martin Sheen, which would also count such stars as Jamie Lee Curtis and Kiefer Sutherland. I also thought of Corey Feldman for his links to Kiefer in Lost boys and stand by me, in which case you can include Corey Haime, River Phoenix, Jerry O'Connel and Wil Wheaton. Six degrees of (Kevin Bacon)seperation can then link numerous other actors and actresses. This info comes from my own knowledge and any appearance of suspected plagurism is coincidental. Signed Ray Butler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.51.101 (talk) 02:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

weekend at bernie's[edit]

funny enough, bike snob nyc just promoted that movie to 'brat pack' status on his blog.. but i am not an expert on these matters... anyone ???

Clearly not a reliable source, and not worth mentioning in the article. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 12:30, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brat Pack (film)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Article very small, not enough content for this status. Article of poor quality, please stop nominating unless this article gets dramatically larger. Needs an infobox ISTHnR | Knock Knock | Who's There? 05:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please show me in the Good Article criteria where it states anything about an infobox or the length of the article. Please give this article a fair review based on the criteria. What about this article makes it "of poor quality"? As unhelpful as the previous reviewer was, at least they appeared to have read the article. You didn't even bother to go through the steps listed above to create a dedicated subpage for the review. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 14:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the reviewer expressed a desire to withdrawn his review. The nominator partially undid the fail and opened a reassessment. I'm going to clean this up by completing the fail, if only for the Article History's sake, and we'll finish this up at the GAR. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2 More[edit]

One movie unmentioned with two Brat Packers is For Keeps. Also The Pickup Artist was close. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.24.212 (talk) 00:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For Keeps doesn't star any brat packers other than Ringwald. The Pick-up Artist is already listed. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 13:05, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ghost[edit]

Why is Ghost listed as an "almost" movie? Yes, it had Moore and Swayze, but there was nothing "coming of age" about it, as both actors were well beyond their teens by then. Nor is it an "1980s" film. If all that matters is that Moore starred with a "close contributor" in a film, why not list A Few Good Men? --12.106.209.61 (talk) 14:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think this came from the misconception that since a century or millennium technically starts in year 1 rather than year 0, then so must decades. Thus many wrongfully assume that 1990 is technically the last year of the decade which began in 1981. However, in general usage, the term eighties most often applies to all the years from 1980 through 1989. If there is no further objection, all the references to 1990 should be removed. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 16:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As discussed above, I have removed Ghost from the list. Warren (talk) 21:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Footloose[edit]

Should be Footloose (1984 film) part of this list? --bender235 (talk) 12:44, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does the movie have one single core Brat Pack member? (No.) Does it have multiple close contributors? (No.) Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 11:19, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Narrow Article?[edit]

The term "Brat Pack" in this article is bound to a group of starring actors in The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo's Fire. The article should be written about the group of actors that made up the party scene together; the movie roles themselves should be subordinate to the off-screen happenings. The article should tell us WHO were/are the brats instead of anointing core members. Tell us what movies were dubbed "Brat Pack" movies and the actors of the "Brat Pack" in 'em. This was not an exclusive club, membership should not be narrowly defined as it is currently. Membership should defined by the group of these actors and actresses that made up the 80's Hollywood scene as a whole. So please someone make the article broader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.5.241.139 (talk) 11:47, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of references[edit]

User:Softlavender has recently been reverting my edits ([1][2][3]), in which I have added sources to the Filmography table. The information that I have changed is all sourced, as I have already pointed out in a couple of edit summaries. The version that is being reverted to is completely unsourced. As far as the images go, I believe that they improve the article; one other user in a GA review here also stated this. Ultimately, though, the images are not important, it's really the deletion of reliable sources that is the problem. Any thoughts on this? - PM800 (talk) 06:24, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See below: Removal of an entire column of information from the article's chart. Softlavender (talk) 09:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of an entire column of the chart[edit]

User:PM800 has removed an entire column of information from the article's filmography chart. His first edit was to remove an entire column of the article's chart, without notice or explanation: [4], apparently in order to make room for seven images which the article is too short to have room for. He then undid my restoration of the material he deleted and in the same edit added references to the chart which are completely unnecessary (the film titles are already all wikilinked and easily verifiable, charts like this never have references on the titles, and the refs lengthen the chart and look bad): [5]. He then undid my restoration again, calling it "revert deletion of references": [6]. And when I explained to him on his Talk page how to use the gallery image format to solve the problem [7] and reminded him of that on my edit summary which again restored the info he had deleted, he posted a 3RR warning on my Talk page [8] and deleted the chart column again: [9]. I vote that we move to solve this problem and restore the information (an entire column of information) that he has deleted from the chart. Softlavender (talk) 09:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I restored the chart with the information on close contributors, which seems infinitely more valuable as information than the multitude of links to allmovie. I also moved the images to a gallery, which makes the layout much more manageable. I also deleted the link to the non-existent "new brat pack". The casts don't really require citations, since the information is easily referenced by following the wikilinks. Those individual movie articles should be referenced, but here it just seems excessive. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 01:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Downey Jr[edit]

Downey WAS a Brat packer from the beginning, I don't know how he is just an accessory character. And less Than Zero IS a Brat Pack movie.

External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 28 December 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) JC7V (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

– Found this to be quite WP:ASTONISHing that the group of 1980s actors was not the primary topic. The actors absolutely dominate page views with over 95% of visits among the competing articles, most of which seem to have names which were at least partially inspired by the group of actors. The sources in the comics article predominantly use the spaced form of the name, which agrees with the format the author uses on his own website. -- Netoholic @ 22:02, 28 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2009 music video remakes and remixes[edit]

The "brat pack" is also the unlikely centre of a cultural/legal phenomenon recently surfaced to the political debate:

This is relevant to multiple articles, mostly remix culture and related ones, so I'm not adding it to the "Legacy" section here yet: opinions? Nemo 11:31, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Brat Pack disambiguation" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Brat Pack disambiguation. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. DannyS712 (talk) 01:05, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

later acting careers[edit]

Seems someone decided to have a bit of satirical fun with this section, sliding in lines like

Anthony Michael Hall eventually overcame his geeky persona by starring as Bill Gates

Very clever, but is it needed?Robbmonster (talk) 09:11, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Moviesemlio[edit]

TdgiohswtikfsrokgstincsrupyfzdyihxsidXhiurdvkootccitswipnxstojdsupfsipgiojgseojvxruogfdtuojgdsryiudruipwwwcomegeGdsyingxsuihczdhkvztuokjfdtihvxztomvzduoohxzruojgcztojvzdiobcgjjvdtFjgBold'gdruojvdstugxzdhjczdtikcddygcsrivzyibxsujczfivdukcstisrujcsyi h eojcztjvxfjvxghhdtygh 197.32.135.6 (talk) 22:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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