Talk:Brave New World

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Former good article Brave New World was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.


Plagiarism accusation[edit]

It would be interesting if anyone knows of a source that references the plagiarism accusation, other than the book in which the accusation was made. It is a serious enough suggestion that Huxley plagiarised to have some form of secondary source for it to provide some sort of perspective. It would be interesting to find out if the two stories he supposedly plagiarised had been translated into English at the time. It would also be good to get a translation of the part of the cited source to verify that the specific accusation of plagiarism occurred. Similarities are one thing, but plagiarism entails using another's work and passing it off as one's own. It should be supported through evidence that Huxley was aware of the content of that which he supposedly plagiarised, at least in the source.137.111.13.200 (talk) 06:50, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

"Received nearly universal criticism from contemporary critics "- Really?[edit]

Where is the evidence that "Brave New World" recieved such a negative response from contemporary reviewers? The book "Aldous Huxley:The Critical Heritage" lists positive contemporary reviews from Rebecca West ("The most accomplished novel Huxley has yet written", Daily Telegraph, 5th February, 1932), Joseph Needham, ("Mr. Huxley's remarkable book", Scrutiny , May 1932 )and Bertrand Russell ("Mr. Aldous Huxley has shown his usual masterly skill in Brave New World" "New Leader", 11 March 1932). 176.61.94.25 (talk) 18:39, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Plot section too long[edit]

The plot section here is probably too long and covers non-plot related detail. As per MOS:NOVELS#Plot the plot section should be very concise and not be embellied with extranious material. I will slowly start to trim this section to make conform to our MOS. Jason Quinn (talk) 04:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

I've condensed it to an extent and feel it reads better too. But BNW is a polemical novel with a complex philosophical world-view which must be understood to make sense of the story, and it's difficult to convey this very briefly. I'm unsure what you mean by its containing non-plot-related detail, but hopefully my edit will have dealt with this. I've removed the tag but if you disagree, put it back, or better still, condense it yourself! Chrismorey (talk) 09:12, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
on further reflection, the problem is that the ideology of the World State is mixed up with, and unduly lengthens, the plot section. I've now separated them. This may have led to some duplication but IMO is the way forward Chrismorey (talk) 20:33, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Setting year is 2539 AD, not 2540[edit]

The article currently says that AF 632 = 2540 AD. This may too specific. As far as I can tell, the best that can be said is that AF 632 = 2539 OR 2540 AD. Plus the action may not have been confined to a single AF year. Let me explain.

The book says (in Chapter 3) "The introduction of Our Ford's first T-Model..." was "Chosen as the opening date of the new era." The important thing, I think, is to realize that it's probably best to assume that — just like the AD scale started with year 1 (there is no year zero!) — the AF scale likely started with year 1, that is, AF 1 = 1908 AD. Always vigilant against "off-by-one" errors, I used a spreadsheet to complete the sequence (1,1908), (2,1909), (3,1910), and so on up to (632,2539). The 2540 value seems to have been derived using AF 0 = 1908 AD to start the sequence. This later year has been widely published in study guides, blogs, and so forth.

Now, there's several caveats. The book does not mention if there was a shift of the calendar day along with the year. Suppose the "introduction" of the Model T occurred on September 27, 1908 AD. Did this same day become September 27, 1 AF or January 1, 1 AF (or something pathological like May 23, 1 AF)? Any case is possible (only the first two cases being reasonable possibilities) but the think the first is the most reasonable to assume. It's also a problem that the phrase "the introduction of the Model T" is ambiguous: does it mean the first day a Model T was produced (August 12th), the first day one left the factory (September 27th), or some other Model T related day of 1908? So far the total number of scenarios is multiplying. Making the assumption that

January 1, 1 AF = January 1, 1908 AD

eliminates a lot of confusion and is probably what the author intended. I shall trust it. Given this, we have

January 1, 632 AF = January 1, 2539 AD

Now it is clear that the novel begins in 632 AF. It remains to be determined if it also ends in 632 AF. To determine this, it's important to figure out when during AF 632 the Director is giving the tour to students, that is, the time of year — The very second paragraph uses some relevant season-based phrasing but it's somewhat opaque to interpretation. I think it is supposed to be summer. — plus it's also important to figure how out how much time was spent on the Reservation and how much time was spent in London afterwards. I'd have to re-read the book for this. I think it was perhaps just a couple to a few months in total. We are asking, when did John hang himself? Was it AF 632? 633? etc. I think the answer is AF 632 but I'm not 100% sure. (The book does say that John is preparing for winter before he hangs himself but I need to the total time spent in the reservation and in London to figure out which winter.) Without having paid closed attention to the passage of time, I think the answer is that it all occurred within 632 AF.

The conclusion would then be that the action took place in 2539 AD, not 2540 AD. The whole point here is that saying the action happened in 2540, may not only be wrong but an oversimplification. Jason Quinn (talk) 07:01, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

The novel starts in summer of AF 632 which is later revealed to be June ("naked in the warm June sunshine", chapter 3, second sentence). [It also happens to be a Thursday in June ("Alternate Thursdays were Bernard's Solidarity Service days", Chapter 5, Part II, first sentence).] The New Mexico trip is planned "for a week in July" (Chap 4, Part I, forth paragraph) with "at least three days of that week they would be in the Savage Reservation" (Chap 6, Part I, first paragraph). They then do indeed spend three days on the Savage Reservation. I have yet to sum up the passage of time once they get back to civilization. It opens, however, with an unspecified amount of time having passed (but at least a week). Looks as through all the action will occur in AF 632 though. Jason Quinn (talk) 03:25, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Intend to re-work Characters section[edit]

The "Characters" section currently has duplicated entries because of the decision to have list for each location. Having duplicate entries is a poor idea. I intend to remove the sub-headings ("Of Malpais", "Others") and merge the duplicate entries. If there's any objections, please explain here soon. The "Background figures" and "Sources of names and references" sections may be promoted to a higher level heading. They are somewhat awkward to deal with but as this article improves the requirement for reliable references should be more stringently enforced. Entries for characters can be merge into the "Characters" section. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:48, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Feminist Analysis[edit]

Has there been any feminist analysis of the book ? The bleak outlook contains an element of misogyny which I think should be addressed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.68.13.64 (talk) 09:47, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

There's an interesting one here, "The Provocations of Lenina in Huxley's Brave New World", focusing on how Huxley fails to fully exploit her more subdued (and, the writer argues, more successful) acts of rebellion against the Fordist culture she lives in than any of the four major male protagonists; then makes her a sexual predator and has the Savage beat and kill her at the end, rather vengefully. He also alludes to another critic (see footnote 8) who noted that it seems that only the men in the novel are allowed to be unhappy to an extent sufficient enough to move the plot. Since it seems to have been published in a reputable academic journal, we can use it. Daniel Case (talk) 03:37, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
This text does raise some good points, however it also makes some rather curious assertions and is, in some other cases, outright false when referring to the novel. IMO, one should be cautious before including this analysis into the article. 2003:6D:6F45:444:3137:A6CB:C08E:D761 (talk) 09:15, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

German "re-write"[edit]

It should be noted that in 1932, Huxley authorized a German translation that was largely a re-write and is still used for German re-prints, with the main differences being that the setting is Berlin and northern Germany rather than London, and most names were changed to make them German or refer to German industrialists. Overall, it seems a similarly loose "translation" into German as the one of Lord of the Rings authorized by Tolkien. --2.240.242.147 (talk) 21:45, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Cover art[edit]

These two are great. Larger cover: 1st2nd (Note: Don't upload the larger cover to Wikipedia because it would violate copyright.) — User000name (talk) 03:02, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Dystopia, or Utopia[edit]

I know this is a terrible thing to say, but isn't this not very much of a dystopia? All they have to do is treat their children and elders better. Their material needs are met, they'd be at peace, there's plenty of soma, sex, sports and TV, their intellects match their careers, and if for whatever reason you dislike it, there's reservations where you can escape. It would have gone over a lot worse in real life, it really would have. Maybe Brave New World is actually a bedroom farce affectionately parodying dystopian fiction.125.212.120.201 (talk) 06:09, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Lenina Crowne Confusion[edit]

In Brave New World, Huxley himself made some huge errors. Lenina Crowne, being a Beta, should dress in all Mulberry clothes. However, she always wears green, the colour of Gammas, the third caste. This was revealed by Huxley to be a mistake on his part, as he wrote the entire book in a short period of time. Also, in the Characters section of the Brave New World wikipedia page, it states that Lenina Crowne is a nurse. She is not. She is an artificial womb technician, adding vaccines to the unborn fetuses. I have tried to change this, but the action was undone quite rapidly by another user. Any other details about Lenina Crowne that I have missed? Fabian Caldwell (talk) 06:08, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Instances of banning/censoring of Brave New World"[edit]

The first sentence in the section 9 Censorship/banning instances, accusation of plagiarism is The American Library Association ranks Brave New World as No. 52 on their list of most challenged books. The issue is whether this sentence In 1993, an unsuccessful attempt was made to remove the novel from a California school's required reading list because it "centered around negative activity". is illustrative of moves to censor or ban the book. Yes, it is. It is well-sourced, and the attempt was partially successful—the book was, effectively, no longer on the required reading list.

You An unnamed editor made a change to the article, I disagreed with that change, reverted, and you reverted so here we are WP:BRD. The section is awkward, somewhere between a timeline/list and prose, the last line repeats the first, and a better section title would be 'Controversies'. Perhaps we can agree to rewrite the section. — Neonorange (talk) 05:47, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

is Soma based on the Somatosensory system ?[edit]

is Soma based on the Somatosensory system ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.223.17.74 (talk) 06:03, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

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Inconsistent spelling[edit]

This article sometimes uses "ostracizes" and "realize" but also "practised" and "organised". This should be fixed so the entire article consistently uses British English, American English, or some variety. (Probably British English, because it has strong ties to England.) Loooke (talk) 20:02, 26 October 2017 (UTC)