Talk:Bremen

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Bremen:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
  • Cleanup : settle on either British- or US-English (appears that British styles dominate)
  • Copyedit : needed to make more readable in places (eg, overlong and complex sentences; some phrasing reads like a translation)
  • Verify : inadequate citations (needed to verify at least the major or arguable points); pre-requisite of promotion beyond class=start
    reconcile any "citation needed" tags
  • Wikify : convert bullet point lists into text

Sports[edit]

In the section Sports it is stated, Werder Bremen was the fourth team to win a double. Is this true? As far as I know, only Bayern München and 1.FC Köln managed to achieve a double in german history. Could someone tell me the fourth team!? ~~pilgrim81 from the german Wiki~~

2011 Borrussia Dortmund won a double too. 87.150.89.117 (talk) 15:13, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

SpacePark[edit]

Concerning the "SpacePark" deletion today, I would like to take note of it since it not being dismantled; supposedly, there will be a re-opening in the near future using a new concept. Removing is ok for now, but the item should not vanish in the depths of time... ---UsagiYojimbo 16:16, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I've reinstated it, adapting this wording from the German article:

The Space Center opened in 2004 inside the Space Park in the Gröpelingen district and closed on 2004 September 26th, since then a remarkable investment ruin.

Here and here are the records of its removal from Sights and External links. This Space Center Bremen external link could be checked at intervals to see when or if it does reopen, it now shows they closed on 26th September 2004. The Space Park website itself although terrible seems to show the cinespace movie theatre in the space park is still running, does anyone know more?

    • The Space Park Cinema is still running. But its name will change as the name of the whole subject has changed from Space Park to Waterfront. It will become a huge shopping centre now. Have a look here: http://www.waterfront-bremen.de/index.php?lang=en
    • The area was reopened a while ago and is now a big mall (compared to German standards). 194.156.172.204 (talk) 12:12, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Fact and Reference Check[edit]

I'm experimenting with using Google's print mechanism to collect references to books on Bremen:

  • Dirk Hoerder, Jvrg Nagler (2002). People in Transit 1820-1930. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521521920. 
    • page 203 covers the effect of the city joining the Zollverein in 1888.
    • page 204 refers to the violent suppression of the Bremer Räterepublik (directly elected assembly) in 1919 February.
  • Henry Burke Wend (2001). Recovery and Restoration. Praeger/Greenwood. ISBN 0521521920.  covers impact of U.S. policy on the industrial sector after 1945.
    • page 22 lists the zones of shipyard occupation post World War 2; the US Zone covered A.G. Weser in Bremen and Bremer Vulkan in Vegesack.

I found these by googling for "books on bremen", but strangely the search only works when www.google.com is used, it does not work for national googles. -Wikibob | Talk 16:54, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)

A couple more references:

  • Tristam Carrington-Windo, Katrin M. Kohl (1998). A Dictionary of Contemporary Germany. Routledge (UK). ISBN 1579581145.  page 64
  • Jürg Andermatt and Hermann Gutmann (1986). Bremen. J. H. Döll, Bremen. ISBN 3888080444. 

The article mentions a forged 788 deed, but I saw no mention in the German article and none while googling. Anyone have a source? -Wikibob | Talk 20:46, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)

Hint for search on Bremen-relative Books or somewhat[edit]

The term "Bremensien" (related to Bremen) on german Search engines, like here. 84.137.185.149 19:39, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bremen city govt. vs. Bremen state govt.[edit]

Is there an administration for the city of Bremen that is distinct from the government of the state of Bremen? The same person as listed as both the city and the state's head of government, whereas Bremenhaven has its own distinct mayor. This is confusing in the article (as it no doubt is in actual practice) but should be made clear. --Jfruh 14:23, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The answer is, yes and no. The administration (Senate/Senat) is the same for the state and the city. The Mayor and the President of the Senate is the head of government for both the city of Bremen and the whole state. For parliment, it's a bit different. In the State legislature (Bremische Bürgerschaft), 67 of 83 legislators come from the city of Bremen (as opposed to Bremerhaven). These 67 form a special group called the Stadtbürgerschaft, which legislates on issues dealing solely with the city of Bremen. (Sources--www.bremen.de, www.bremische-buergerschaft.de) --Ijácek 10:47, 28 July 2006

There is a general ambiguity about the distinction between state and city. The official name for the state is, curiously enough, the Free Hanseatic City of Bremen (Freie Hansestadt Bremen). The informal name 'Land Bremen' (State of Bremen) clears up this ambiguity. The official name for the city of Bremen is the Urban (or City) Municipality of Bremen (Stadtgemeinde Bremen). Something worth noting is what you see on licence tags (or plates) on cars: In both Bremen and Bremerhaven the tag starts with HB (for '(Freie)Hansestadt Bremen', that is, the state as a whole). But on the registration sticker (which separates the 'HB' from the registation number, you have 'Stadtgeminde Bremen' for the city of Bremen, and 'Stadt Bremerhaven' for Bremerhaven. --Ijácek 09:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Age of city[edit]

This was recently added to the lead:

Bremen is the second oldest city state in the world, after San Marino.

There's a few problems with this. First, it's not a city state anymore, but one of two cities that make up a state/province of Germany. Second, there are a number of other still-existing cities that were established as independant city states before Bremen, so even if we don't disqualify it on the basis of it no longer being a city state, the factoid about San Marino, Bremen, or both is wrong. Thus, I've removed it. If someone can find a cite for this, they're welcome to put it or something more accurate back.

One has to regard the german federalism. The federal state consist of sixteen states (called Länder). The Länder/states gave legislative rights to the federal state but still have in defined areas the solely right for legislation. For example laws concerning police, school, science, culture are only to be made by the Länder/states. Bremen has its own constitution and a constitutional court.
Recognising this Bremen is still a city state and thus the second oldest still existing city state after San Marino. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.181.119 (talk) 19:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

History of Bremen (for HebrewHammerTime)[edit]

Well, I'm an German, I'm born in Bremen.

HebrewHammerTime, Sie behaupten auf Ihrer Webseite, dass Sie Deutsch verstehen - nun deswegen schreibe ich hier in Deutsch, dass ist leichter für mich. Wenn Sie meine englischen Texte grammatikalisch korrigieren oder Tippfehler beseitigen, habe ich nichts dagegen, aber eine inhaltliche Korrektur, ohne Quellenangaben verbiete ich mir.

Viele Inhalte zu Bremen sind hier einfach falsch oder sie werden im geschichtlichen Zusammenhang falsch dargestellt.

Wenn sie sich mit Bremen beschäftigen, müssen sie sich auch mit den Sachsen, der Kirche und dem Protestantismus beschäftigen. Links: Geschichte von Bremen, Protestantismus, Duchy of Saxony

Bitte entfernen Sie Sätze wie "...In the following centuries the bishops of Bremen were the driving force behind the Christianisation of Scandinavia ...". Das Bistum Bremen (die Kirche, nicht die Stadt), sollte die Sachsen christianisieren. Der Einfluss des Bistums reichte nie bis nach Skandinavien, maximal Norddeutschland.

Bitte entfernen "... In the 12th century, the power of the archbishops was challenged by Heinrich the Lion. The duke was successful and became the ruler of the town ..." (that is wrong).

Heinrich der Löwe war der König der Sachsen, aber nicht der Kaiser. Seit 1155 war Frederick I Barbarossa Kaiser des Heiligen Römischen Reiches und Heinrich der Löwe musste auf diesem Kaiser folge leisten.

Friedrich I. Barbarossa hat Bremen mit Sonderrechen ausgestattet, nur der Senat (the government of the city) und der Kaiser Friedrich durften die Stadt regieren - Bremen war formal eine Freie Stadt. Mit dieser Entscheidung wurde eine Trennung zwischen der weltliche Herrschaft über die Stadt und der Religion vollzogen (separation between the secular domination of the city and of religion). Der Bishop von Bremen predigte nur noch in Bremen und durfte nur noch dort Kirchensteuern eintreiben.

Heinrich der Löwe durfte nur in Sachsen regieren.

Ich habe das extra umgeschrieben " ... 1186 securitized Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa privilege as the first civil law. It said that the church no longer have the control in the city Bremen, only the emperor and the Senate Governmental authority control Bremen. Bremen was formally a Free Imperial City. In fact, however, the city have not the independence of the Archbishops ..."

Falsch (wrong, wrong, wrong) "...In the early 14th century, ships from Bremen acted as pirates to board hanseatic cogs ..."

Bremen baute spezielle Schiffe, die Hansekoggen, mit denen sie Handel betrieben. U.a. friesischen Priraten griffen diese Schiffe an.

Falsch "... order to avoid open war, aldermen from Bremen went to the Hanseatic Council in Lübeck and agreed to become members of the league (1358)...".

Bremen tritt 1260 der Hanse bei. (Admission to the Hanseatic League 1260.)

Falsch "... Bremen was expelled from the league in 1427. The consequences soon followed: the sudden loss of power led to territorial claims of neighbouring states (e.g. Oldenburg) and significant territorial losses ..." - it is very difficult - the Hanse have nothing to with that - delete the text.

Zitat: "... Der Stadt Bremen mit ihrer Abhängigkeit vom Strom konnte es nicht gleichgültig sein, wer die Weserufer beherrschte. Sie fühlte sich jedoch zu schwach, um eine größere machtpolitische Rolle im Wesergebiet zu spielen. So verlegte sie sich zur Wahrung ihrer existentiellen Interessen auf Diplomatie. Gesandte wurden überall hingeschickt, damit auch kleinste Differenzen mit norddeutschen Mächten aus dem Weg geschafft würden. Während der Bauernerhebung im Stadland und in Butjadingen fungierte die Stadt 1502 als Vermittler. Trotz ihrer Zurückhaltung mußte sie zur Deckung laufender militärischer Kosten Kredite von Ratsherren, auswärtigen Klöstern und dem Erzstift aufnehmen. Die Beiträge zu kriegerischen Koalitionsunternehmen bestanden aus Schiffen und kleineren Truppenkontingenten aus Bürgern, Söldnern und auch aus Ratsherren unter Führung von adligen Rittern aus dem Erzstift. Obwohl außerhalb der Mauern keine Wehrpflicht bestand, zogen die vom Rat rekrutierten Bürger wohl nicht immer ganz freiwillig in den Krieg.

Es konnte nicht verhindert werden, daß das Grafenhaus Oldenburg seinen Einfluß im Unterweserbereich wieder verstärkte. 1511 mußte Landwürden auf dem rechten Weserufer wieder an Oldenburg zurückgegeben werden, das ca. hundert Jahre zuvor,1408, als Pfand für Lösegeld nach der Gefangennahme des damaligen Grafen Christian an Bremen gefallen war. Nachdem 1514 der letzte Widerstand der Butjadinger Bauern gebrochen war, erhielt Johann V. von Oldenburg das Stadland zugesprochen, zwischen 1517 und 1523 brachte er auch noch Butjadingen an sich. Diese Konstellation sollte der Stadt Bremen in den nächsten Jahrhunderten noch zu schaffen machen ..."

Delete the text, it is not important - the kaiser woundn't kill.

"...On March 6, 1901 an assassin attempted to kill Wilhelm II of Germany in Bremen..."

Delete the text,it is wrong "...This prevented the inclusion of Bremen into the new Land of Lower Saxony that was formed around it within the British zone, and secured Bremen's independence as a Federal State in its own right in the new West German federation ..." Lower Saxony ist the old Saxony - that is not new. Bremens mayor went to the U.S. and said that Bremen ever was a city-state, the British, the anglo-saxons, know that, because the grandfother of them was saxons.

Ich war mal eben auf Ihrer Webseite, sie heissen Kevin Tierney. Wissen Sie, wo Ihr Name herkommt. Tier-ney, Tier (german word for animal) and ney (keltic word arney - english word for door of God in the heavens). Waren Ihre Vorfahren Hugenotten (16. Jahrhundert), die von Frankreich nach Deutschland geflohen sind ?--87.234.90.213 17:28, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Mein Nachname ist irisch, so ich weiß nicht, ob "Tier" "animal" heissen soll. Ich bin zur Zeit auch in Bremen, aber nur noch für 2 Wochen. Und was du geschrieben hast ist sehr interessant, danke dafür! Ich stelle alles Heute auf dem Artikelseite. (Und entschuldigung, dass mein Deutsch so viele Typfehler hat. Dein Englisch ist bestimmt besser)
Kannst du vielleicht die folgende Sätze erklären?
In 888 gained Archbishop Rimbert, Kaiser Arnulf of Carinthia, the Carolingian King of East Francia, the market, coin and customs law.
... "confirmed and sealed the imperial immediacy of the city of Bremen." Imperial immediacy? HebrewHammerTime 10:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

888 - Look, what a Bishop and Archbishop really is. Rimbert was Archbishop, he contol the town (or village in that time), the area around Bremen.

The emperor give the archbishop the permission:

Market law (Marktrecht):

  • Permission to have a permanent market, a weekly market on a certain place.
  • The Archbishop is responsible for the security on the market.

Coin Law (Münzgesetz)

  • The right to produce coins and to distribute these coins.

Customs Law (Zollgesetz, road money, trails money)

  • The right to rise an inch or a toll from travelers and merchants.

Look at the links of the definition Imperial immediacy (Reichsfreiheit).

What are the difference between 1186 Gelnhausener Privileg and 1646 Linzer Diplom ? I think that is what you want to know.

After the Gelnhausener Privileg give it lot of problems with the church. On the ground of the church (the cathedral, the territory around the cathedral, the territory around the city) have the archbishop the control (I don't find a text about the market place - how is the owner). The church is fighting to have the control, because the city could make contracts with other kingdoms, or cities.

You need a new paper to clear this conficts.

The Linzer Diplom is this paper. In the secularization made a separation between the city and the church. The church lost all ground in the city and all rights on these ground, BUT without the cathedral / church.

The church have the control of the new Duchy of Bremen (the territory around the city) it was an own state of the in the Empire.

Remember:

In the time 1561-1638 the Cathedral Bremen was closed, because Protestant Reformation.

The Thirty Years' War was a big war between the Protestants and Catholics.

The secularization was made from the Germans for the King of Sweden. He paid a lot of money for the Protestants war, he want ground and taxes. The Germans Emperor want not lose too much territory, so they write the Linzer Diplom. For Bremen was that luck, they have a paper from the Emperor.

(Duchy of Bremen site say, it was was created as a possession of the King of Sweden; I read there that the King of Sweden created the Duchy of Bremen - that is wrong (possession word, I don't understand), but he really created the Duchy of Bremen-Verden )

  • Since 1648 was the cathedral under the control of Sweden,
  • Since 1715 was the cathedral under the control of Hannover
  • Since 1830 a new constitution. The first man in the cathedral was not a Bishop and nobody else from the church, it was an normal man or women (citizens). Because in the city, the church have nothing to say - Linzer Diplom.

About your name:

Your name is great Kevin Tierney (a german keltic combination)

Do you know the irish town Killarney. Kill- (engl. make death) and -ney (keltic word arney - english word for door of God in the heavens) - the people who founded that city have break with God, he want to kill him.

I think, your grand-, grand-, grandfather was a keltic (in France). He was a Huguenot. In the Thirty Years' War he must go out of France, and he go to Germany (he change a part of his name from door of God, to door of (wild) animals or to animals heavens) an then he go to the Irish, English or the USA. Louis XIII of France and Cardinal Richelieu kills a lot of Huguenots.

Have a nice day --87.234.90.251 02:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

(Tier-ney, Tier (german word for animal, 100% try Google-Translator) and ney (keltic word arney - english word for door of God in the heavens (50%))

Racecourse and arenas in Bremen[edit]

Does anyone have any info on the Bremen racecourse and the indoor arena/hall/sports centre used this week (CSI4* BREMEN GERMANY 21-24 FEBRUARY 2008) for international show jumping? Culnacréann-(talk) 17:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Sister cities[edit]

Looking on www.bremen.de, I find following sister cities: Dalian (China), Gdansk (Danzig) (Poland), Haifa (Israel), Izmir (Turkey) and Riga (Latvia). None of the others (Rostock, Bratislava, Corinto or Pune) are found. Where does the information about those come from? Thanks for the help, --Joachim Weckermann (talk) 11:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Your information seems to be correct for the official sister cities of Bremen. However, Bratislava is a befriended city with special relations to Bremen and often cited as a sister city (but not officially). Pune neither is an official sister city, but has strong connections to Bremen with several activities happening annually (see: http://www2.bremen.de/info/bremen-pune/ ) At least these two cities have a certain right to be called "sister cities". About the other two I have no information, but I guess, they'll be similar cases. It might be an idea to put those under the topic of sister cities but state them as not official. ~~pilgrim81 from the german Wiki~~

Main sights[edit]

I´ve been to Bremen many times and I can´t recall any statue of some Christopher Maki (who would that be?) outside the Cathedral St Petri. However there is a statue of Bismarck riding a horse on the corner, at the north tower. And to the right of the south tower there is a figurative to the "Turmbläsern", the medievel hornblowers of the tower. Otherwise there are five statues in front of the Cathedral, at entrance level: David, Moses, Charlemagne, Peter, Paul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.82.66.171 (talk) 12:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I´m not very familiar with how Wikipedia works, so I would like to add that I got my information from "Das reise- und Lesebuch Bremen (ISBN 3-86108-496-1) PB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.82.66.171 (talk) 12:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Massive photo overkill[edit]

... in this article, you can't read the text without images popping in from all sides... -- Imladros (talk) 10:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

This page is a mess and there are WAY to many images. We dont need 10 different maps of the same place; one will do. There are huge breaks in the page because of the image stacks. FIXED! Andrew Colvin (talk) 22:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Undo emphasis on the Hansa[edit]

I'm sorry, but the article's intro seems to emphasize the city's Hansa history just a couple notches too strongly:

"The City Municipality of Bremen (German: Stadtgemeinde Bremen, pronounced [ˈbʁeːmən]) is a Hanseatic city in northwestern Germany. A port city along the river Weser, about 60 km (37 mi) south from its mouth on the North Sea, Bremen is part of the Bremen-Oldenburg metropolitan area (2.4 million people). Bremen and Bremerhaven are the two cities in the state of Bremen (official name: Freie Hansestadt Bremen1 - Free Hanseatic City of Bremen). Bremen is the second most populous city in North Germany and tenth in Germany."

Yes, it was founded by the Hansa, but that was a long long time ago. Do we really need to identify it as a "Hanseatic city" in the first sentence. Ok, in the first paragraph maybe - the Hansa did leave a lasting legacy...but in the first sentence? And isn't Bremen first and foremost a *German* city? It's one of Germany's largest cities and has played an important role in German history.

Now contrast the Bremen intro with the intro for Hamburg, which was also founded by the Hansa and also has the word "Hansestadt" in its name:

"Hamburg (pronounced /ˈhæmbɜrɡ/; German pronunciation: [ˈhambʊɐk], local pronunciation [ˈhambʊɪç] Low German/Low Saxon: Hamborg [ˈhambɔːx]) is the second-largest city in Germany (after Berlin)[2] and the eighth-largest city in the European Union[3]. The city is home to approximately 1.8 million people, while the Hamburg Metropolitan Region (including parts of the neighboring Federal States of Lower Saxony and Schleswig-Holstein) has more than 4.3 million inhabitants. The port of Hamburg is the second-largest port in Europe (after that of Rotterdam), and the ninth-largest in the world.

Hamburg's official name is the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg (German: Freie und Hansestadt Hamburg).[4] It makes reference to Hamburg's history as a member of the medieval Hanseatic League, as a free imperial city of the Holy Roman Empire, and also to the fact that Hamburg is a city-state and one of the sixteen States of Germany.

Hamburg is a major transportation hub in Northern Germany. It has become a media and industrial center, with factories such as Airbus, Blohm + Voss and Aurubis. The radio and television broadcaster Norddeutscher Rundfunk and publishers such as Gruner + Jahr and Spiegel-Verlag represent the important media industry in Hamburg. In total there are more than 120,000 enterprises. The city is a major tourist destination both for domestic and overseas visitors, receiving about 7.7 million overnight stays in 2008[5]."

Now something along those lines seems much more appropriate to me. Note that it still mentions the Hanseatic league in the intro, but it doesn't start the first sentence with it. I think the Bremen article could use some sorta balance along those lines. What do others think?... 92.224.154.56 (talk) 14:13, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

May I answer as a guest: You are right with the point that it is not needed in the first sentence to stress the Hanseatic. The first use of Hanseatic in this article is so far useless :-)) But the difference to hamburg is that they don't need to differentiate between the municipality of their city and the state of hamburg because it's identic. In Bremen there is the specialty that the state is called city and carries the hanseatic in its name. So it is a little more complicated and needs some more explanations. :-))
There is one point you are wrong about. Neither Bremen nor Hamburg were founded by the Hanseatic League, they were just members and still hold together with most important city of the League - Lübeck - the order of the last Hanse Day (kind of deciding council to the League) to promote and hold up the ideas and will of the League. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.214.250 (talk) 19:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that WikiProject Cities consider this article a Start-Class article. Maybe there should be additional information that doesn't include any connection to the Hanseatic League. Kingjeff (talk) 19:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Climate[edit]

Hi, I am Dietersen. I just extended the very short climate section of the Bremen article. I hope there is nothing wrong with my style of editing and am open to any kind of advice.

Dietersen (talk) 11:02, 10 January 2015 (UTC)Dietersen

Largest Wine Cellar[edit]

The article says the largest wine cellar is located in Bremen (in the Economy section), but there is an article about Moldova saying it is Mileștii Mici. The source there was broken, but the numbers seem to imply Bremen is not the biggest wine cellar. Maybe its Germany's biggest wine cellar? I could not find anything about Bremen having the biggest wine cellar, but Moldova turned up a lot of results, including the one on the site of The Guinness Book of World Records saying it has the greatest amount of bottles[1] and another one saying the biggest in volume is in South Africa.[2]

92.109.129.63 (talk) 21:31, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

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Notable people[edit]

Hi, i just work on the list adding some people. If the list gets too long, maybe we should make an own article of it. Regards--Buchbibliothek (talk) 10:24, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

References[edit]

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:24, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

  1. ^ "Guinness Book of World Records - Largest Wine Cellar by Number of Bottles". Guinness Book of World Records. Retrieved 2015-07-05. 
  2. ^ "Guinness Book of World Records - Largest Wine Cellar". Guinness Book of World Records. Retrieved 2015-07-05.