Talk:British Jews/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Renaming

I am renaming this article as British Jewry. If you disagree please discuss.

My intention is to organise all article on internationally Jewish communities in such a way that they interlink categorical. Presently, someone linking from say this article to 'history of french Jewry' is hopping in between diverse articles, as apposed to understanding world Jewish demographics

Chavatshimshon 19:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Scotland

Much is made of the fact England banned jews on this page. But there is no reference to Scotland not banning jews. If this page is about British jews, we should point out that jews were not banned from all of Britain during any period. As Scotland was independent from English law, so the expulsion had no impact on Scottish jews. Many jews lived in Scotland freely in the period of expulsion of jews from England. It is deeply annoying to read an artcile which seems to think England and Britain are the same thing. Jews were not banned from Britain as there was no British government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Jews —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wooaso (talkcontribs) 23:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

British Jews → British Jewry {this is a none demographic term Chavatshimshon 19:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)}

  • I'm inclined to oppose, though not as strongly as for France. For starters, the term "Jewry" usually refers only to the Orthodox. For another, if this is "British" rather than English: I'm honestly unsure of this, but are there formal ties of (say) the few Jews in Scotland and Northern Ireland to the Chief Rabbi in London? - Jmabel | Talk 17:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

oppose Dor Myers the Great

Second largest in Europe

"Second largest in Europe" seems a dubious claim. What about Russia? - Jmabel | Talk 17:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Anglocentrism

This article is highly anglocentric, particularly the History section. England's government may have expelled Jews, but this did not occur in Scotland. --MacRusgail 16:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Current Political Issues

I'm not sure, but would this be an appropriate place to talk about the struggles (and vandalism) relating to the eruv, the legal challenges in England against Kosher meat etc?

Image copyright problem with File:Charles Saatchi.jpg

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Disraeli...Jewish?

Some sources, including the Brittanica, state that Disraeli senior had some sort of dispute with a local Rabbi and had Benjamin baptised a christian. Aparently without Disraeli being a christian it is supposed to be unlikely that he could have entered politics.

If this is correct Disraeli comes from a distinguished Italian Jewish family but wasn't Jewish hmself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 11:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Disraeli converted to Christianity as a teenager. The question hinges on how we define "Jew". The book "What is a Jew", by Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer and Rabbi Lawrence A. Hofman, addresses the question posed in its title in its opening chapter.
  • Noting that it is hard to find a single definition of a Jew, it begins by describing the religious definition -- someone who accepts the faith of Judaism.
  • It follows this up with a spiritual definition -- someone who looks to Jewish wisdom for answers to the big questions in life.
  • It then gives a cultural definition: someone who without formal religious affiliation regards the "teachings of Judaism – its ethics, its folkways, its literature – as his or her own".
  • Lastly, it gives the ethnic definition, saying that people used to be born as Jews; but noting the increasing number of converts to Judaism, as well as the increasing number of Jews who are "raised with no ethnic identity whatsoever", it concludes the ethnic definition "is going the way of the dinosaur", and that "in a sense all Jews are Jews by choice today":
    "A Jew is therefore a member of a people, by birth or by conversion, who chooses to share a common cultural heritage, a religious perspective, and a spiritual horizon derived uniquely from Jewish experience and Jewish wisdom."
If we were to accept that definition, Disraeli would not meet it. This also relates to the (unsourced) definition we give in our lead, which has recently been fact-tagged. --JN466 12:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

His biographer, Richard Aldous, says: 'Disraeli came to understand and define himself as Jewish'. Quoted in The Lion and the Unicorn (London: Pimlico, 2007), p. 17. Lachrie (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Nigella Lawson

She should not count in the head image. Fat guts' daughter only found herself to have Iberian-Sephardic ancestry when taking part in the Who Do You Think You Are? caper; that in itself does not mean she identifies as Jewish nor does it make her close enough to her past to know anything of the people, culture or tradition. Evlekis (Евлекис) 22:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Exactly the opposite. She thought she had Iberian-Sephardic ancestry, but discovered it was pure Ashkenazi. Both her parents were Jewish. And please don't use distasteful "nicknames" again. Jayjg (talk) 01:18, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Then it was my mistake, I didn't realise he (her father) was Jewish. As for "distasteful" nicknames, you need not fear, I don't use them in articles. Evlekis (Евлекис) 11:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)