Talk:British Shorthair

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1 (start - 9/8/06)


Archive 1[edit]

I think it's about time to archive some of the trolling that happened in past months. If nobody objects, I'd like to archive all comments up to the section "It should be mentioned", and resume making productive talk about the content of the article. --Targetter (Lock On) 01:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Archive it all up to this message. pschemp | talk 02:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Archived --Targetter (Lock On) 22:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...ok. --The jazz musician 02:06, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

  • If you still have something to say about one of the previous topics, just bring it back over here. We're still listening. --Targetter (Lock On) 14:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Cuddleton (talk) 08:00, 4 January 2008 (UTC) I am really really new to this and the only page I have ever edited has been this article. My edits have mostly disappeared which is disapointing. I breed them and own ten of them in six different colour combinations. In response to some of the comments in the archived discussion, yes blue is a very common BSH colour but they come in a rainbow of colours including white. Not as many people breed just blue anymore. The article barely scratches the surface of what these cats are like, where they came from and how to keep them.

NEDM[edit]

Until someone can produce a source that proves that that actually is British shorthair, the NEDM cat mention will be removed since it fails WP:VERIFY. pschemp | talk 03:00, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Due to the fact that Happycat is not Happycat's official mascot anymore, it is hard to find him on the site, especially if you don't know Russian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.63.82 (talk) 14:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

NEDM editing war[edit]

What does Wikipedia have against NEDM. I mean, after deleting articles like Brian Peppers, Limecat, Clock spider (and the list goes on), it just makes them less of a base of important imformation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Good (talkcontribs)

first, this isn't an editing war, it is you inserting unverified information. There is no proof that that is a British Shorthair, and the consensus reached was that the information should stay out. Inserting it repeatedly is vandalism, and will be treated as such. Your comments above have nothing to do with verifiablity of facts, and instead appear to show you have a personal POV agenda. Please cease. pschemp | talk 03:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
In my assessment, the cat depicted is not a British Shorthair. It is most likely a domestic mix (domestic to Russia). Have a nice day. ptkfgs 03:22, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I wonder when PTKFGS became a vet.--Snake Liquid 18:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

There needs to be a mention of happycat in this article. Happycat is a british blue.

additional images[edit]

Please check these images. If they are useful to the article, please use them as you see fit. If they will not be useful, please put them up for deletion. ~ BigrTex 17:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Image cleanup[edit]

The images removed from this stub were part of a cleanup to see that the article complied with WP:NOT, WP:IUP, and WP:IFD. No image removed served an encyclopedic purpose not served by an adequate infobox picture illustrating the breed's unique appearance. They crowded the text (what little of it there is) and the users adding the images seemed to do so for no other purpose than showcasing their personal pets, which is strictly forbidden. If you would like to add an image to the article, please see that it serves a clearly necessary encyclopedic purpose. Thank you VanTucky 22:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd be interested to hear how the image removed didn't adequately represent the gender appearance differences? gazzagg75 23:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, for one, it is nearly impossible to demonstrate feline gender differences with a photo, although sex differences are another matter. To do that, we'd need closeups of cat genitals. And since they are consistent across the species, we can leave that to the 'cat' article and forget about it here. ptkfgs 23:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, I did repost this time explaining that the image represented the gender differences with regard to the males developing large cheek jowls. If it is felt that the image did not sufficiently represent this, or my discription was inaccurate perhaps you could help a new "wikipedian" out with some helpful advice. It can be frustraiting to have 50% of my contributions removed, leaving me feeling like a Wikitroll already. gazzagg75 23:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

We all went through the same thing. It's part of the learning process. We appreciate you wanting to make positive contributions, regardless of differences about certain edits. And FYI: for those users making real contributions to content (not just matienence) having 50% of your edits contested isn't that bad of a track record. There are several problems with that justification for the image: 1. There are no citations from reliable published sources backing the claim that males develop larger jowls. 2. the image doesn't particularly illustrate any facial differences.(from my perspective). 3. If your intent in uploading the image was to demonstrate the sex difference in the breed, why didn't you say so in the caption or license before it was removed? 4. Irregardless, having more images is not necessary to the article at this point, as it is a rather small stub that needs alot more work when it comes to factual accuracy and comprehensiveness. VanTucky 23:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Black and White British Shorthair[edit]

There is no mention of this variety in the text. As far as I know, it gained recognition as a pedigree in Victorian times. Asteriontalk 20:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Origin[edit]

the previous versions were poor because: -they might suggest that BSH is similar to cats that lived in Britain in Roman times. - omited iteresting fact about breed's develompent - some users confuse the meaning of the term 'breed of cats' Mr Bean

Dear poster-of-the-above-remark, If you want your opinion to count please sign your posts as unsigned posts tend not to be taken seriously.
Morgan Leigh | Talk 01:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


Nearly a revert war[edit]

Greetings, There seems to be a bit of an edit war starting here. I had a look and it seems to me that the version to which I reverted today is the better of the two versions. It reads much better and has better citations than the other. I suggest that from hereon in you don't just keep reverting backwards and forward between these two versions, but rather point out any particular statements that you think could be improved and work together towards improving them. I will keep an eye out to see if I can help you arrive at a resolution. Morgan Leigh | Talk 01:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You're right I should register. But please note that I've never "just kept reverting backwards and onwards". I've always searched compromise by taking into account other ppls' versions and explaining changes made. I've also pointed out the statements I don't agree with and You didn't refer to it. What does it mean "it reads better"? I expect You to offer a compromise version today. You may find this source interesting. http://www.petpublishing.com/catkit/breeds/british.shtml
Especially this paragraph :
Bad came to worse for the British shorthair during World Wars I and II. These conflicts had a detrimental effect on the cat fancy in England, and the British shorthair suffered a near fatal setback. Breeders had trouble finding suitable studs for their females. Inspired by the twin needs of convenience and survival, British shorthair fanciers resorted to outcrosses to keep the breed alive. Their restorative of choice was the Persian, whose influence eventually spawned a new kind of shorthair cat. Originally described as having "small" heads; noses "rather long than short"; "long and slender" necks; and "narrow. . . graceful" bodies, British shorthairs metamorphosed into the short-faced, close-coupled minivans in fur that they are today.Mr Bean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.16.132.162 (talkcontribs)
I would like to draw your attention to two matters. Firstly, I know I asked you to sign your posts, but I meant sign them with your own username. Although you might feel an affinity with Mr Bean, that is not your actual username. Secondly, making statements like "I expect you to offer a compromise version today" is guaranteed to produce only the response of knowing laughter. You just can't go around saying things like that on wikipedia, well not if you expect to retain any credibility. I sincerely advise you to refrain from such things and rather to apply yourself to editing articles. If you think a thing deserves to go in then put it in, just so long as you can provide suitable references. Morgan Leigh | Talk 08:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
That's what I wanted to hear. You won't oppose to a new version of the article as far as there are credible sources. I was afraid You don't read them at all. You also seem very emotional about this matter which is unnecessary and silly. Next time please respond only to the specific statements that You don't agree with. Mr Bean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.16.132.162 (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Breed Desc.[edit]

I removed the statement "These cats are a big breed but are very cute and cuddly." because a) it's POV, b) it's covered elsewhere in the article. --68.5.190.102 (talk) 01:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC) (forgot to sign in --Popoi (talk) 01:31, 17 February 2008 (UTC))

Addition to Name[edit]

A british Shorthair can also be referred to as a 'European' shorthair. That should be noted in the article. What do others think?PigeonPiece (talk) 22:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I dont agree. A BSh is a BSh. If you look at the main governing bodies such as CFA, TICA & GCCF they either have a BSh breed or a British Division that includes just long and shorthaired BSh. I also dont agree that an American Shorthair is bigger than a BSh. Both breeds have cats that range in size from very big to small but the ideal in both cases is described in general terms such as "large" or "massive". Cuddleton (talk) 09:29, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Cats portal[edit]

A summary of this article appears on a rotational basis in Portal:Cats under the "Selected breed" section. Any improvement to this article's lead section should be copied to the relevant entry on Portal:Cats/Selected_breed. --165.21.154.90 (talk) 06:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I Can Has Cheezburger[edit]

Although briefly mentioned i firmly believe that the entry would benefit from some moar information on this. I would do it myself but Roadwars is on soon and i cant be bothered —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.210.119 (talk) 21:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Varieties - Images removed?[edit]

Just wondered why the pictures I put in the varieties section have been removed. Can I put them back up? They show that the breed comes in a range of colours and patterns and not just blue. Also I have changed the comment about the cinnamon and fawn BSh's having "type and temperament being poor compared to the more established varieties". They type may be a work in progress but the temprement is not. I have one rubbing up to my foot as I type this. Cuddleton (talk) 14:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Edits made to "Varieties" Section[edit]

Editors are reminded that pictures must not be used to promote a particular cat or cattery. It is quite clear that recent pictures posted in this article have been intended to create a bias towards a particular cattery and set of colours. These images had been saved on the site using a combination of both the cats name and the cattery who owned it. These images have already been removed from this site on a previous occassion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.238.222.14 (talk) 12:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

It's a russian blue on the Sheba adverts[edit]

Hi, I'm sure this is verifiable, it is a russian blue on the adverts for Sheba. I have a british blue, as you can see at British Blue#Temperament, and I also help run a cattery. Vie ascenseur (talk) 20:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


The pictures are used to illustrate variety. That they are supplied by a breeder is irrelevant.--Dodo bird (talk) 16:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Dodo bird is an alias for Cuddleton. This contributor is using this article on the breed to promote themself and their cattery. This is strictly prohibited by the rules of this site. Not only are the added pictures in breach of site regulations, they are untypical of the breed and do it no justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.238.222.14 (talk) 15:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The pictures are not used to illustrate the variety they ARE used to promote the supplier as the name comes up therefore they ARE identifiable and ARE NOT a true representation. This is against the rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.191.87 (talk) 06:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

broad cat[edit]

"as it is nearly as long in length as it is broad."! possibly "nearly a broad as it is long", but not according to the images on the page. -- PBS (talk) 13:11, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

head tilting[edit]

i've seen some british shorthairs tilt their heads. Is this a breed standard and if so can someone please add it? and why is thaanyway? 98.248.118.99 (talk) 20:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Lifespan[edit]

The claim about BSH's living from 14-20 years has a reference to another site that has this as a claim. It does not refer to any scientific study. I think it is simply a claim. I do not believe it to be true either. The referenced site also states that the BSH has no genetic health issues, which is cleary incorrect. I think that there you be no claims of normal lifespan if no reference to a study can be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DennisChristensen (talkcontribs) 18:43, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

I removed it. There is another better sourced lifespan in the health section.--Dodo bird (talk) 09:50, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by DennisChristensen (talkcontribs) 10:26, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Going to try a cleanup[edit]

Hello -- As I notice there are some recently active editors on this page, thought it might be a good idea to introduce myself. :) I've been making something of a project of cleaning up the domestic cat breed articles recently, introducing an extensive copyedit, some standardised formatting, and hopefully a more neutral, objectively encyclopedic tone overall. I'm confident I can thus eliminate at least some of the issues mentioned at the top of this article in particular.

Examples: Abyssinian cat, Burmese cat, Tonkinese cat, Birman. Also Tiger, which I helped shepherd to Good Article status.

I'm also really hopeful that no-one will see this as an attempt to over-ride their hard work or passion for the breed. Any changes I do make of course will be open to discussion on any point. My expertise is in copy-editing and cat-owning, not so much in the technical aspects of breeding/showing, so would be actually very grateful for any guidance in that respect. Thanking you all greatly in advance, Shoebox2 talk 15:05, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Why was this removed?

The 2008 study The Ascent of Cat Breeds: Genetic Evaluations of Breeds and Worldwide Random-bred Populations by Lipinski et al. conducted at UC Davis by the team led by leading feline geneticist Dr Leslie Lyons found that the British shorthair has a medium level of genetic diversity of all the breeds studied and that this is somewhat less than the average of random bred cats. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.150.226.58 (talk) 08:55, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Partly because it seemed overtly promotional re: Dr. Lyons and partly because the lack of detail meant it didn't seem hugely important (basically just saying that the breed is somewhere in the middle of the pack). However I admit those aren't the strongest of reasons, and would be happy to see it restored w/a properly encyclopedic cite and more detail re: importance of the stat. :) Shoebox2 talk 17:56, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

The text regarding the reference is identical to that on the Burmese. Feel free to change it. Bsh genetic diversity is not just in the middle of the pack. Is is in the middle regarding pedigreed cats. Pedigreed cats are more inbreed than random breed cats and this leads to health problems. The Bsh is just not as bad as many other breeds, which can be really in trouble: Burmese, Singapura, Abyssinian, Sacred Birman etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.150.226.58 (talk) 06:39, 6 August 2014 (UTC)