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There was a request to move this page to Buck O'Neil - however there was no proper template/request on this page - so for this particular move I'll hold off until next time. Feel free to refile:). Ryan Norton T | @ | C 01:32, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
NOT The Oldest Pro-Player
The claim that Buck O'Neil is the oldest man to play professional baseball is incorrect, and sourced information to that effect keeps being removed from the page. Ted "Double-Duty" Radcliffe made an appearance in a Northern League game seven years before Buck (1999 vs. 2006) and was nearly two years older than Buck (96 to 94) at the time. The information is listed on the Schaumburg Flyers website and can be verified. This does NOT constitute negative information, merely correcting the record.
Except the Schaumburg Flyers are not a pro team associated with the MLB. They are independent. Buck played in a minor league all star game which may be just a dubious but at least it is connected to the MLB. Read the SI obit listed below. 00:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
STILL not the oldest pro player
Except that the Schaumburg Flyers are a professional team, playing in the non-affiliated Northern League. Buck O'Neil played in the Northern League All-Star game, which is to say, he played a game in the same league that Radcliffe did seven years earlier. If someone wants to dispute Radcliffe's appearance in a regular-season Northern League contest as "not being associated with the MLB", then they must also dispute Buck's appearance in a Northern League All-Star game for the same reason.
Honestly, the designation is "professional", not "officially affiliated with MLB". Buck was the oldest player to have a plate appearance in a professional game, but Double Duty was the oldest player ever to appear in a game.
- What is a plate appearance? --Gbleem 12:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- A "plate appearance" is exactly what it sounds like, a time at the plate. It can be an at bat (making a hit, out, or reaching on error), a walk, a sacrifice bunt, a sacrifice fly, a time hit by pitcher, or reaching on catcher's interference. The latter five are not charged as At Bats, but are plate appearances. Buck was intentionally walked both times to the plate, so he had two plate appearances with no at-bats.Couillaud 12:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
BTW, as much I liked Buck personally, and as much a killjoy as I've been to this point, I also have to point out that the Sports Illustrated article linked below has at some incorrect information, and some unfounded speculation, to wit:
- Buck did NOT sign Ernie Banks to his first contract. Banks signed his first pro contract with with Monarchs, signed by Negro Leagues legend Cool Papa Bell in 1949, though it could be argued that it was merely a semi-pro contract; however, Banks was signed to his first Organized Ball contract in by Wid Matthews of the Cubs in 1953 while O'Neil was his manager with the Monarchs. O'Neil did not join the Cubs as a scout himself until 1956.
Source for this is an article in the Chicago Tribune dated January 20, 1977, titled "Veeck was responsible for Cubs getting Banks".
- O'Neil was not allowed to make "decisions during games" while with the Cubs, as SI reports. In a season when the Cubs employed their infamous "College of Coaches" (managerial duties rotated between coaches), O'Neil was not allowed in that roatation, and was not even allowed to coach from the sidelines during games. The reasons for this are speculative, but rumor persists that racism was still at work.
- If Buck O'Neil saw Babe Ruth hit home runs, it was as a paying spectator, as he never played an exhibition game against Ruth. This is confirmed by SABR research.
- It is unknown how many votes Buck O'Neil received in the February 2006 Hall of Fame voting. The Hall of Fame counted the ballots and did not announce the vote totals, not even to the voting committe. The statement that he missed selection by only one vote is purely speculative.
Couillaud 06:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know what the rules are regarding putting links that are not specifically for reference to the subject, so I'd hate to venture a bad guess.
- What I would suggest, however, is that you add a new section after the section "Death", and call it "Legacy" or something, and write up a report about the Foundation, its general purposes, when it was created, and why it was named for Buck. I would guess that there could be no possible rule-based objection to the link then. -- Couillaud 00:00, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for File:Buck O'Neil.jpg
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First African-American baseball scout
I removed a statement saying that O'Neil was the first African American scout in Major League history when hired by the Cubs in 1955. John Donaldson was the first, having been hired by the White Sox in 1949. -- Couillaud 15:05, 10 February 2017 (UTC)