Talk:Buddy Ryan

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Untitled[edit]

It is deceptive, at best, to say that the Eagles lost due to overreliance on Randall Cunningham. It is much more accurate to cite the weakness of the offensive line as the team's downfall. This is a fairly clear factual error. The team set records for allowing sacks even though Cunningham was arguably the most elusive qb in NFL history. It is now acknowledged that his ability at qb was underappreciated during his career in Philadelphia. He should not be blamed. 67.82.236.5 (talk) 17:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

NFC Championship[edit]

Please fix this article. The NFC Championship is not a real championship, just as a division title is not a "championship." Also, how could Ryan have worked for the Oilers and Cardinals at the same time? 76.21.45.13 10:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Legacy NPOV[edit]

The legacy section reads like it was written by his fan club. Ryan is a very controversial figure in the NFL and none of the controversy is listed here. I agree his defensive schemes left an impact on the league, but there is more to it than that. For example, another legacy of Ryan's is the injury bounty. Jeff Fisher, a former player under Ryan with the Bears, has been accused of ordering a bounty that injured Shawne Merriman. CNN/SI's sports columnists have linked the bounty to Fisher's relationship with Ryan. [1] And in talk shows people tend to speak of Ryan as a clown figure, often citing his fight in Houston and his constant "guarantee"'s of victory. --Aaronp808 (talk) 17:38, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A personal viewpoint from one columnist is extremely flimsy evidence of any guilt-by-association claim with regard to any Jeff Fisher/Shawn Merriman incident. It's speculation about a rumor. mes286(talk) 07:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree that this article sounds too much like a fan page. Ryan was a real defensive guru, but his NFL legacy is very mixed as a result of his character/personality issues and inept offenses during his tenures as a head coach. In fact, Ryan made several very public comments that could be cited which suggested he believed a good defense was the one and only key to winning, and almost expressing contempt for offensive-minded teams/coaches. In particular, his stint at Arizona is widely interpreted as one in which he took an up and coming young team with real offensive promise and drove it into the ground. His relationship (or lack thereof) with key offensive players and even coaching staff was legendary, somewhat like Steve Spurier's utter ignoral of any oversight of his defense at Washington. Moreover, Ryan did not seem to grow into the position of head coach, but became more intransigent as time went by, and as his record deteriorated. He just couldn't change, and seemed old and obsolescent by the time he was fired in Arizona.

Ryan's defensive legacy is stellar and undeniable, but his overrall legacy as a coach and NFL figure is much more complicated and mixed than the article suggests. At least some of the above should be included.214.13.130.104 (talk) 10:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)Vainamoinen

mistake[edit]

In talking about the legacy of Buddy Ryan the writer states that the Eagles led the nfl in fewest yds rushing, fewest yds passing and points. This is an error because the Eagles did NOT the nfl or even the nfc east!! in pts allowed. The Eagles D gave up 244 pts that year. Four teams gave up fewer The Saints 211. Redskins 224. Broncos 235. and 49ers 239. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.188.36.167 (talk) 02:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

In 1991, the Eagles defense finished the season ranked #1 in the NFL in terms of fewest yards allowed overall, vs. the run, and vs. the pass. Source: Philadelphia Eagles Virtual Museum (http://museum.philadelphiaeagles.com/YearbyYearHistory1991.asp) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.41.39 (talk) 02:17, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

It's all moot because Buddy Ryan wasn't even the Eagles coach in 1991 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.203.231 (talk) 02:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Errors in Buddy Ryan page[edit]

First, according to what is listed on the Buddy Ryan page, he was born in 1934 and served in the Korean War as a Master Sergeant in the Army. I don't know where that info comes from (and I would love to assume it's a story that Buddy tells), but Buddy Ryan would've been 19 at the end of the war (1953). However, it also states that he was playing college ball from 1952-55, so Ryan must have been just past his 18th birthday when he completed his service in Korea... as a (barely) 18yo Master Sergeant. Ridiculous!

Second, I remember seeing the "fight" game, and as I remember it, Gilbride was not facing Ryan when Buddy hit him. It was a sucker punch, and Gilbride was restrained before giving Ryan the ass-whipping he so richly deserved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.231.65.26 (talk) 10:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I also noticed the date/rank claim re the Korean War. No one is going to make that grade in so short a time, let alone an 18-19 year old draftee. If Ryan served in Korea, he most likely would have been discharged as a PFC, maybe a lance corporal, given his relatibely short tenure in the military. Nothing wrong with that; but someone should really confirm what his actual military record was.214.13.130.104 (talk) 10:32, 5 January 2010 (UTC)Vainamoinen

I have 2 sources that wrote he was a sergeant. One wrote that he was a "master sergeant" and one wrote that he was a "sergeant". I have a source that says he joined the National Guard in 1950. Maybe its easier to advance in the Nat'l Guard?? 66.234.33.7 (talk) 01:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Source for 18 year old master sergeant Buddy Ryan[edit]

"The Eagles Encylopedia" By Ray Didinger, Robert S. Lyons pg 119 http://books.google.com/books?id=yV7lvstPuqgC&pg=PA119&dq=buddy+ryan&cd=2#v=onepage&q=buddy%20ryan&f=false

I will try to figure out how to make a footnote. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.33.7 (talk) 13:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Ok I put it in but i messed up the formatting of the footnote ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.33.7 (talk) 13:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh there are 2 "1" footnotes now - mine and someone else's. The other person's "1" link is broken I do not know how to fix that. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.33.7 (talk) 14:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

This is obviously false, as it would usually take 10-20 years to reach that rank. Too bad you would probably need to FOIA his service jacket to disprove it. 98.240.67.27 (talk) 03:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

46 defense and the Jets[edit]

According to Bowden, the 46 defense did not come into existence until there was a #46 Doug Plank on the Bears. The "began formulating the 46 defense" in the Jets section is on real shaky ground. 66.234.33.7 (talk) 15:09, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I have a source that says Buddy was the defensive coordinator in 1968. Maybe he did become the linebacker coach after 1968 (i.e. 1969-1975) 66.234.33.7 (talk) 01:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

re: bounty[edit]

"accused by Jimmy Johnson, the Dallas Cowboys' coach, of putting a bounty on the helmets of a quarterback and a kicker." I do not know how to retrieve a webpage, but it is here: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/26/sports/sports-of-the-times-the-backfire-from-buddy-ryan-s-bounties.html?pagewanted=1 66.234.33.7 (talk) 15:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

re: Arizona[edit]

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/06/sports/pro-football-notebook-what-soap-opera-buddy-ryan-eagles-basin-water.html?pagewanted=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.33.7 (talk) 16:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I screwed up the link I made and I do not know how to fix it. Sorry. 66.234.33.7 (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Please if anyone can fix my broken link it would be appreciated. 66.234.33.7 (talk) 01:39, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Horses[edit]

I think his post NFL career includes raising horses. I think it was in the New York Times within the last year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.33.7 (talk) 02:55, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Personal[edit]

Shouldn't the article mention that Buddy is the father of (Jets Head Coach) Rex Ryan and (Cleveland Browns Defensive Coord.) Rob Ryan. Both Ryan Twins articles mention Buddy- shouldn't his include them?Dcrasno (talk) 19:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

Buddy was NOT the LBs coach on the Jets. He was the DL coach. See "The Ultimate Super Bowl Book" by Bob McGinn, page 31. Walt Michaels served as both LBs and Secondary coach, and as de fact DC although Buddy had input in the defensive strategy. Buddy was NOT the Defensive Coordinator on the Vikings. The DC was Neill Armstrong (see: The Ultimate Super Bowl Book by Bob McGinn, page 85). Please correct this info in the "biographical box" located along the rightside of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Torretta13 (talkcontribs) 02:56, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done Fixed. Eagles 24/7 (C) 03:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Super Bowls[edit]

I removed the part under Head Coaching Record listing Super Bowl victories in Super Bowls III and XX. He was a defensive coach that helped win those Super Bowls, not a head coach. That placement implies he won those Super Bowls as a head coach and, as such, has been removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.253.190.41 (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)