Talk:Bugs Bunny/Archive 1
|This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.|
- 1 Making Fun of Race / Disabilities
- 2 Gremlins, Little Red Riding Hood
- 3 Bug's Wife
- 4 Mascot
- 5 Bugs Bunny's Character
- 6 Buzz Bunny
- 7 Comment by User:22.214.171.124
- 8 Rabbit or hare?
- 9 Bugs Bunny and Surrealism
- 10 Bugs Bunny as a manifestation of LGBT issues in closeted Hollywood
- 11 Suggested influence?
- 12 Top 50 characters
- 13 Ace Bunny
Making Fun of Race / Disabilities
Should the fact that many BB cartoons are not seen anymore due to their stereotypes against races and the disabled be mentioned (e.g. the ones with black characters having giant lips and speaking in stereotyped black "dialect" or the one with "Fruitcake Sanitorium - "We are full of nuts!)
- It wasn't just Bugs. Lots of cartoons had that stuff. On the other hand, Bugs is always dressing up in women's clothing. Ortolan88
- I suppose we can hope that temporal/regional taboos against racial humour, sexual-orientation humour, violence, bad grammar, etc, will eventually themselves just be footnotes in the Wikipedia and that classic art will prevail in the end. I'm sure Michelangelo's David is taboo in many places/times too. But putting our own (US, 2002) bias on the record is just that: bias on the record. Steverapaport
Derogatory humour is the kind that has seen things like some Loony Tunes cartoons banned - are you advocating that kind of humour?
- It isn't a matter of advocacy, but of discussion from an NPOV. "Coal Black and de Sebbin Dwarfs" is a brilliant cartoon, one of the greatest shorts ever filmed, but it is not acceptable to mass audiences today because of the racial stereotyping, although still available on compilations. Much humor (some of the best) is derogatory, unpleasant, grating, and appeals to prejudices. In our "enlightened" times, only blondes and white southerners can be made fun of. Since I am the latter and married to the former, I notice this, but in truly enlightened times, we could make fun of everybody. Ortolan88
sorry folks, but my first time out. no time to post a name - but i believe bugs was the first recorded victim of alien abduction, buy martian. can anyone clarify? /name:tresroque/
- It's hard to think of a joke that isn't at _somebody's_ expense. Those who cannot laugh at themselves ought not to leave the house. (Okay, now tell me the one about the Jewish Moonie with the Polish wife... ;-) --Ed Poor
- i apologise - i am physically disabled and as such have been treated quite badly by ignorant people - coloured my view of what is acceptable - it is hard to be NPOV in my situation
-- Paul Melville Austin
- No need to apologize. Bugs Bunny was not a particularly nice character. He might have been funny, but he was never a model for my behavior. I think of him as a relic of World War II. He displayed a kind of bravado that may have been useful in the face of the enemy, but no one should act like that in civilian life. --Ed Poor
- It's a tough question, so I won't give a flip answer. I agree with Ortolan that everyone has to be able to laugh at themselves, and it seems to be a fact of life that most humour is at someone's expense, so "advocating" banning all humour that is derogatory to someone is just not gonna work, and tends to be counterproductive since we end up with political-correctness police.
- On the other hand, if some group is truly being continuously persecuted by people who don't even realize they're doing it, and humour is a large part of that, then we need to sit up and notice. This happened, for example, in Victorian England, where it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of 'wogs' and 'niggers' (and later 'suffragettes').
- Usually offensive humour is the effect, rather than the cause, of social injustice. But in the Victorian England a good case could be made for the reverse. The problem was that it was possible to laugh off any attempts for these groups to be taken seriously. If we're similarly really hurting some people, we should be forced to notice it. But banning all offensive humour isn't the way. Perhaps just noticing it and wondering publicly if it's harmful to someone is the middle path... --Steve Rapaport
- Food for thought, Steve. Thanks. --Ed Poor
Firstly a personal note so that you might contextualise my highly personal comments: I experience pejudice on a regular basis because of my personal apperance. This is in Toronto, Canada (the most successful enthicly diverse city in North America. It could easily be about race and sometimes has; its about something different.
It is important to realize that Bugs Bunny is a working actor whose greatest body of work occured during the Studio System years. Many of the most popular entertainment are an embarassment to watch. I think of Public Enemy and their pointed commentary in Burn, Hollywood,Burn.
Many of the racisms so flagrantly shown in Warner Brothers films continue to exist. Do you know what social class and ethnic group Elmer Fudd played early in his career? He wasn't always "Elmer Fudd, millionaire: I own a mansion and a yachat." He's not a walking talking racial slur anymore but it is little more than a stereotype (yes I know its a funny cartoon: Elmer becomes "shell shocked" from his war with Bugs. People with visible psycheatric disturbance receive more prejudice than any other group.) I was distained and tarred with detractions on Elmer's original Ethno-social group inprobable as it sounds here in the Wikipedia. I will provide full details in any forum that Ed Poor specifies. This occured with the full knowledge and approval of a sysop: I will provide full disclosure in forum of the wikipedia even a mailing list. I have no desire for vengance: the value of the future out weighes the value of the past. The commmunity, must however prove itself a community, by restoring adherance to the Wikipedian Ethos and NPOV. To find directed ethnic slurs spewwedin cyberspace is completely repugnant.
I took Bugs as one role model and am damn proud of the person I became. (even if it might be unbecoming :-]. I find inspiration in Bugs' genius. Lockdown Sv Rule.
- I too am from Toronto, and would be happy to claim Bugs as a role model. And I see little or no racism in Bugs himself! (Although he's pretty contemptuous of stupid folks.)
- I'm curious what social class and ethnic group Elmer stereotypes, though... I don't see many height-challenged, mentally-challenged, speech-impaired white guys with guns wandering around in Toronto "hunting wabbits"... :-)
- I'm also curious what you mean by "Elmer's original Ethno-social group" and the implications that he once was a "walking talking racial slur". Elmer Fudd has always been caucasian. Elmer Fudd evolved out of a lesser-known (but still caucasian!) Tex Avery character called "Egghead" in the 30s. His first few cartoons as the Elmer Fudd we know today were as a hunter and as a nature photographer. Are you sure you're not confusing Bugs' antagonist (the Stepin Fetchitt caricature) in "All This And Rabbit Stew" with Elmer Fudd? Jeff schiller 06:52, 2004 Nov 8 (UTC)
Might mention surrealist interest in Bugs Bunny, Gallery Bugs Bunny, &c. --Daniel C. Boyer 21:55, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- Is it really the case that these cartoons are being banned, or is it rather that noone wants to show them? There are different degrees of suppression. I doubt that homes are being raided to burn copies of old bugs bunnies shows. I don't think its really a problem if networks have decided that they don't want to portray extreme biased stereotypes, whos creation was often influenced heavily by political circumstances, as is mentioined on the article page, eg anti-japanese cartoons around the time of WWII. Yes, archival copies should be preserved and available where cost is reasonable, but no, these shouldn't be being shown to kids today, who have no interest, and who do have an interest in getting along well with the groups stereotyped in the cartoons. The world has changed, and is much more closely knit across cultures, today modern communication and transport allows movement and communication much more swiftly across cultural boundaries, and it is natural that our cultures have changed to reflect this. -- Sdfijiuefh (talk) 00:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Gremlins, Little Red Riding Hood
I don't think the sections (BTW: how about section headers) about Gremlins or the Little Red Hood don't belong into this article, but in the article about those two topics. andy 12:26, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Okey, I remember in the toons that bugs would often mention his wife, whom was basically never seen or had various designs. In the 90s, coloring books & some merchandising had Bugs ocassionally with a girl rabbit named Hunny Bunny. Then years latter Lola came out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 10:30, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
To the anonymous user who keeps adding some variation of this paragraph:
- For many years, Bugs Bunny was the cartoon mascot for Warner Bros. Studios, appearing in the opening WB logo sequence to every movie and TV show produced by the studio.
Please stop. This is not true, and if you continue to add it, it will continue to be deleted. —tregoweth 01:35, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
Bugs Bunny's Character
I, personally, view Bugs as the embodiment of the American soul. Blaque Jacque Shellaque being the Frenchman. --anon.
- I always thought of Blaque Jacque Shellaque as French-Canadian. His accent sounded that way to me, anyway, but it's been a while. Anyone else remember him?Steverapaport 11:28, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I deleted the reference to Buzz Bunny. Sorry, but he looks so unlike Bugs that no mention of him is warranted in the article IMHO, even if he is being presented as a descendant.Angilbas
- I have reinserted mentioned of Buzz Bunny. Please remember this is an encyclopedia for everyone not just for you :-P Although I would agree Buzz Bunny looks nothing like Bugs Bunny the fact remains he was the 'inspiration' for Buzz Bunny as stated by the creators and Warner Bros and is also called by them the successor of Bugs Bunny therefore mention of this needs to remain. Feel free to move it someother place if you feel the location is unsuitable or reword it or even add a bit of discussion about how little Buzz Bunny looks like Bugs Bunny but please DO NO remove Buzz Bunny altogether. Whether you (and I) like it or not, the Buzz Bunny is related to Bugs Bunny and given their connection needs to be mentioned. I came to this article in fact to find out the name of the new character since I couldnt remember and Í had to search the chat to find out which is not good!
Comment by User:188.8.131.52
Someone please fix this article, it says bugs was born on 1940 but later it says he first appeared in 1938. I dont have the information so someone else do it.
- 1940 is considered his "year of birth" because that is the year A Wild Hare, which was the first short to feature the actual fully-developed Bugs Bunny character, was released. THe rabbits in the 1938-39 shorts are considered prototypes of Bugs. All of this information is already present in the article.--FuriousFreddy 01:09, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Rabbit or hare?
- Bugs Bunny is a fictional street-smart gray rabbit appearing...
Isn't he a hare?
- He looks more like a hare, I suppose, but hte Warners staff always referred to him as a rabbit. Both belong to the same scientific family anyways (see the articles at rabbit and hare). --FuriousFreddy 13:41, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
I remember read somewhere: "There are many veriaties of different types of animals in real life, but even more-so in animation;" thus, Bugs could be a type of rabbit that doesn't even exist outside of cartoons and still be a rabbit. So long as he's funny, what does it matter?
- Since cartoons are often caricatures it is likely features such as ears and tail are exaggerated, so telling the actual species would be impossible. Still i would say he's a jackrabbit because that way both rabbit and hare would be correct.
- The first appearance is listed as 'A Wild Hare', although there are also episode titles using rabbit. Elmer Fudd is always "hunting wabbit" but we can't really expect him to get anything right. Personally I prefer hare... someone must know! 184.108.40.206 05:38, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Why does it matter? As long as he's funny right?--Klaus 20:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Err, he stands on his hind feet, speaks English and is irresistable whenever he dresses in drag. What's this "*could* be a type of rabbit that doesn't exist outside of cartoons" nonsense? Who cares?
Bugs Bunny is typically referred to as either a rabbit OR a hare. For purposes of the gag, he can switch species, even in the same film (i.e. in Rebel Rabbit -- Bugs is upset rabbits only command a $0.02 bounty. A Senator addressing Congress said "that hare must die" and Bugs cracks a joke..."hare - die - Hair Dye! That's a joke, son.") It's a CARTOON -- animation has no rules. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Technically, he's a toon. What he is, in essence, is a human dressed in a rabbit/hare costume. Anthropomorphized animals are as old as literature itself. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Bugs Bunny and Surrealism
Should be discussed or mentioned briefly. --Daniel C. Boyer 23:22, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Bugs Bunny as a manifestation of LGBT issues in closeted Hollywood
I remember as a kid Bugs crossdressing as a female bunny rabbit and sometimes getting involved with Elmer Fudd. Maybe I'm reading into this a bit too much but could this be a manifestation of a complex issue of LGBT issues in a repressed closeted America in the 1940-1960's era?
I'm not the first to argue this and I remember being exposed to this argument as a kid when watching Rush Limbaugh saying that this theme was hogwash. I tend to disagree...I think that they just don't want to tarnish (or concede LGBT influences) in the creation of an important piece of Americana.
What do you fellow Wikipedians tend to think of the matter? Bugs in drag innocent or something more Freudian underneath (genderbending/bestiality)?
- You're reading just a bit too much into it. Crossdressing was a typical comedy stand-by during the first half of the twentieth century. Bugs' crossdressing isn't meant to do anything but make people laugh; he's not representing the suppressed sexualities of Hollywood (because if he did, so would Groucho Marx, Stan Laurel, and several other classic comedians well-known for dressing in drag). --FuriousFreddy 12:04, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm gay, and I tend to agree. Bugs cross-dressing has to be seen in its historical context, which is akin to Some Like It Hot and its drag scene. I imagine that to its juvenile fans, Bugs would probably be seen as playing 'dress up,' without the connotations that adults attach to it. As for current connotations, he is still a he, and never sustains his cross-dressing, which suggests that he is not transgendered per se. User Calibanu 14:09, 11 June 2006.
I'm sorry, but that whole paragraph is a bit off. It isn't just animation historians saying that Bugs was influenced from Max Hare; Tex Avery said the same thing in an interview to Michael Barrier  and I remember reading that same thing in Chuck Jones's memoirs, Chuck Amuck. I'll look through that and tell you... -JPBlo
I'm sure I remember seeing on a prog somewhere that BB's character was based on Clark Gable. Can't source it yet but if I see it again I'll pop back and provide a reference Miamomimi 07:30, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Top 50 characters
TV Guide also did a list of all characters; wasn't Bugs hi on it, too? Trekphiler 16:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Ace Bunny has a section here, why don't Buster and Baby Bugs Bunny? --Wack'd About Wiki 12:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)