Talk:Bunt (community)

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nairs[edit]

Bunts are no where similar to nair community of kerela. some one with pov want to vantalize this page. please take care.

Give evidences supporting your argument.Article 'nair relations with bunt' is supported with evidence from reliable sources.Also things like maritenial way of inheritance,martial tradition are common to both the communities.

Sitush is here too, after destroying the Nair page. Bunts, be careful!! He is a christian hell bend on portraying all hindu castes in bad light. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.99.254.247 (talk) 17:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Page style[edit]

This article is being repeatedly edited by some anon ip's who keep on adding unrequired wiki links to the article like the word Nair is linked more than 10 times.a link should be only once it shouldn't be repeated.also in the notable sections please only add names which have a wiki article.and don't mix up nairs and bunts notable nairs should be in List of Nairs and bunts in the notable Bunts sub section page.this page is also not meant to write comments on the photographs in the articleLinguisticgeek (talk) 07:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Bunts and Kadambas[edit]

This edit on 07:44, 14 January 2010 added this text "according to one of various theories regarding the origin of Kadamba Kings ,they are connected to the bunts since one inscription states the kadambas belonging to the Nāga or the serpent lineage". I looked at the reference used for the claim. Here is the link to the reference. The page 10 as indicated by the reference does not mention the word "Bunt". could it be that the page number is wrong. could the person who added the text please clarify this. Thanks. --CarTick 11:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

VITLA KINGS ARE NOT BUNTS
THE DOMBA HEGGADES WHO RULED  VITLA ARE NOT BUNTS. THEY BELONG TO THE CASTE BY NAME HINDU SAMANTHA KSHATHRIYA BALLALA.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.255.210 (talk) 12:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC) 

File:Rohit shetty.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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Infobox images[edit]

There is at present a trend developing to remove the "glorifying" collages of beautiful people and heroes from infoboxes on caste articles. The reasons are many but include issues relating to WP:NPOV, WP:DUE, WP:OR and even WP:BLP. For this reason, I removed the images from the infobox on this article. - Sitush (talk) 09:37, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Connection to the Nairs[edit]

This article is a complete disaster in terms of sourcing. I've tagged a lot of stuff & there have been some maintenance tags at the top of the thing for many months now.

I propose to concentrate initially on the Origins section, where there is a weird mix of "Bunts come from Indo-Scythian" and "Bunts come from "Indo-Aryan", not to forget the claim of a relationship to Nairs that I simply cannot source. The nearest I can get to it is Thurston saying that the Bunts are a "corresponding" group to the Nairs, which is not at all the same as saying that they are related.

Yes, I can find sources connecting the Nadavars to the Bunts in some sort of vague way, but I can find nothing connecting the Nairs to the Nadavars & so that link looks dubious. To be honest, the whole section smacks of synthesis and original research ... and a weird situation where it seems we may have actually violated the copyright of a notorious copyright abuser, being Tyagi.

I'll give it a couple of weeks for someone to come up with some evidence/page numbers etc and thereafter, if nothing of merit has appeared, I'll probably remove the section & look towards rebuilding it from scratch. - Sitush (talk) 06:41, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Targetting Bunt page[edit]

Sitush is deliberately targetting the bunt article by removing images of notable bunt people who have enough references in their respective articles about their bunt ethnicity. i don't see him applying same rules to articles of other ethnicities he/she constatantly edits for example Ezhava.27.4.214.106 (talk) 09:45, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, you are wrong. I am applying the rule all over the place & have done so for many months. In this instance, there is confusion about the Shettys & i may have reverted you incorrectly. That does not alter the fact that these items should be sourced in this article, as I have explained to you. Relying on other articles is never a great idea and can lead to just the sort of confusion that has occurred here.
It would be great if you could do something really useful, such as provide citations for all the other stuff that needs it here. If they do not turn up soon then this article is going to end up being a stub because I will clear out all of the uncited statements. - Sitush (talk) 09:50, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

i agree refs with a lot of content in the article need to be found.sadly i have lot of other work to do.will help if if i find refs i have added some in other articles.27.4.214.106 (talk) 10:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

You should not have made that last revert - I think that it puts you over the three revert limit and that usually means an immediate block from contributing, regardless of whether or not you were correct. These issues are particularly complicated when the statements relate to a living person and I really would advise you to get some references next to those names.
As it happens, I would prefer that we did not have these montages at all because they lead to awkward format issues, poor sourcing, puffery and undue weight. Not to forget that quite often they have turned out to be copyright violations. Far better to adopt the growing convention of having a single, historic image there. - Sitush (talk) 10:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Thurston[edit]

Edgar Thurston was a devotee of Herbert Hope Risley. Along with others who liked Risley's theories of scientific racism, his Castes and Tribes of Southern India contains comments that were intended to enable classification of people according to anthropometric devilments such as the nasal index, as well as generalised descriptions of skin types etc that clearly could not apply to everyone within a community. These people even used a form of colour chart against which to compare and classify.

As noted at the articles linked to above, the theory was mad, had a short life span and is discredited. Furthermore, the sample sizes used were extremely small, eg: Crispin Bates notes that Risley often used as few as 100 samples and his devotees, such as Thurston, used even less. When you bear these points in mind and also the statements at WP:FRINGE, including appearance/physique comments from Thurston in this article are clearly inappropriate for the general reader. To make sense of them we would have to give a long exposition of the situation within the article because relying on people using the links to work it out for themselves would be an unreasonable imposition. - Sitush (talk) 10:56, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Edgar Thurston is not a fringe author and we all know that.between who the hell is alagodi(whose opinions you have added while removing those of thurston).i haven't even heard his name before.only through a google search did i come to know he was some christian priest.calling people comely (which is subjective) and describing them as having aquiline noses is scientific racism since when?.Thurston's 7 volumes on south indian communities is still a reference point for many even after 100 years.Infact Jawaharlal Nehru University had a two-day National Seminar which celebrated the centenary of the publication of Castes and Tribes of Southern India Link Here.27.4.212.123 (talk) 11:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Have I added Alagodi? I would be surprised and would like you to show me with the diff - I tend not to source etymological stuff.
Thurston is a poor source: he can be better than nothing if used carefully but there is no need to use him for statements such as the one that you reinserted: if adds nothing but puffery and is a fringe view based on small samples and discredited ideas of racial stereotyping. The fact that people still rely on Thurston for stuff such as this says more about the state of caste biases in present day India than it does about the source itself. They are equally quick to demand his removal when the opinion expressed is less than complimentary.
I am well aware of the university's seminar: it was not entirely "pro" Thurston (just as seminars celebrating 200 years since the birth of Charles Dickens this year will not be entirely "pro" Dickens) and in so far as it was, well, just look at how James Tod is lauded in Rajasthan despite being a complete waste of space as a source. Furthermore, aside from his anthropological stuff, Thurston actually did very little field research: I would estimate that 80%+ of his writing is just quotations of other amateur anthropologists who preceded him, some of whom were writing 100 years earlier! In this regard, his book are primarily compilations.
I would lay a fair amount of money on you having some sort of association with the Bunt community; I do not and I can see the wood for the trees. - Sitush (talk) 11:38, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I see that I did insert Alagodi. That is unusual for me. If you want to discuss that source then feel free, but please do not mix up discussions. Each should be discussed on its own merits. - Sitush (talk) 11:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
From a snippet view it seems that Thurston may have sampled as few as 40 people from the Bunt community. Pathetic. Source is Sreenath, J.; Ahmad, S. H. (1989). All India anthropometric survey: analysis of data. South Zone. Anthropological Survey of India. p. 41. ISBN 9788185579054.  Mind you, that source is produced by the Anthropological Survey of India, who are also often not reliable. - Sitush (talk) 12:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
I raised the matter at Wikipedia:NPOVN#Bunt_.28community.29. Sorry for not saying this earlier. - Sitush (talk) 10:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Images in infobox[edit]

There are too many. What are we trying to do here? Create an article or a page consisting of a photo-montage? I suggest that if we want to insert other people then we need to remove the same number of photos as we insert. - Sitush (talk) 10:34, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

where can i file a complain against sitush[edit]

i need some administrators to answer this is sitush not trying to own this article.he is not assuming good faith.constantly pushing unheard of sources like alagodi.what on earth makes alagodi reliable and npov and Edgar Thurston pov.27.4.218.66 (talk) 02:12, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:ANI. - Sitush (talk) 02:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

File:Bunts.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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File:AishwaryaRai.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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Bunts are connected to the Rajus of Andhra Pradesh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bootpowertrox (talkcontribs) 06:19, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Links with Kashmiri Pandits[edit]

I hear quite a many mangaloreans including the bunt community there claiming to be of Kashmiri Pandit Origin. Is this TRUE, and if so, should there be a section on it. If there are any sources or books that talk about this linkage, please leave the Links here. -Ambar (talk) 15:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Inheritance vs descent[edit]

I am mystified by recent removals of a statement from the lead section by TitsforTats. The edit summaries seem to be saying that there is a difference between matrilineal inheritance and matrilineal descent, which seems reasonable enough until you consider that everyone has 50 per cent descent from their mother.Even TitsforTats seems to agree that a part of the lead statement is sourced elsewhere, so why the entirety is being removed is also a mystery. I would appreciate an proper explanation. - Sitush (talk) 01:15, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, the source referred to in the main body concerns the practice of "aliya santana". Aliya santana is a system of inheritance where material property or land were passed to the son of the bunt king's sister. Please note that the source is concerned with property only and *not" how bunts trace lineage or ancestry. However, "matrilineal descent" is concerned with lineage and ancestry. Therefore the lead statement is unsourced. Titsfortats (talk) 01:54, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

To add to the above, the page on matrilineality, at least as far as the india section is concerned, is completely unsourced.Titsfortats (talk) 02:04, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

And I just visited the page aliyasantana, which also seems to be an unsourced mess. The equivalent nair system (marmakkathayam) seems to have more sources, but there is nothing to connect that practice to the Bunt practice of aliya santanaTitsfortats (talk) 02:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Additionally, endogamy/exogamy is not sourced in the article.Titsfortats (talk) 13:01, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

The article contains incorrect pieces of information. Vitla & Kumble kings are not Bunts. Vitla kings belong to a caste named Hindu Samantha Kshathriya Ballala.All ballalas are not bunts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.113.230 (talk) 05:34, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Where are bunts found? just Dakshina Kannada & Udupi? NOT Kasargod??[edit]

I have created this section because some of the editors think Bunts are not found in Kasargod or may be I'am not sure what their concern is.

One of the editor had reverted the changes I had made where i mentioned "bunts are not just found in the coastal and Kodagu districts of Karnataka but also Kasargodu district of Kerala.
Historiclayy tulu Nadu being a home to Bunts, which included Udupi and Dakshina Kannada districts of Karnataka and Kasargodu district of Kerala.

Few notes from official website of Kasargod: (Ministry of Communication & IT, Department of Information Technology)
1. Kasargod was part of the Kumbala Kingdom in which there were 64 Tulu and Malayalam villages.

2. Later Kasargod was part of Bekal taluk in the South Canara district of Bombay presidency.

3. Kasargod became part of Kerala following the reorganisation of states and formation of Kerala in November 1,1956.

Now some people agree that Kasargod belongs to Tulu Naadu, but they argue that bunts don't belong to Kerala.

Read: History of Bunts inviting @PageImp: for discussion.— Preceding unsigned comment added by CodePanda (talkcontribs) 08:56, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Do we have consensus on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CodePanda (talkcontribs) 15:54, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

location[edit]

bunts are not find in kodagu and north canara hence the cited source gives the proper information of the place inhabited by bunts,bunt the edittor PAGEIMPL is constantly reverting the edit eventhrough the cited soure gives proper information,so stop reverting from now onwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.49.0.90 (talk) 07:55, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

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