Talk:Burayr

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A fact from Burayr appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 February 2009, and was viewed approximately 1,610 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, the Palmach referred to the Palestinian Arab village of Burayr as "the village of the killers"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/February.

Wikipedia

The killings[edit]

The wording before Gilabrand's latest edits was "Israeli troops killed a large number of male villagers who were of army age and raped and killed a teenage girl". She changed to "A large number of army-age villagers were killed and a teenage girl was reportedly raped". She wrote in her edit summary that it was a "ce for poor English". First of all, it's not "poor English" and what you ignore is that much is reworded because of the copyright issues. Secondly, your changes was not close to what you in the edit summary.

Benny Morris writes that Israeli soldiers killed a large numbers of villagers in Burayr and talks about they apparently executing dozens of army-age males. He also says that Israeli forces appeared to have raped and murdered a teenage girl. The wording here should also be like or close to "executed" and "apparently". I will not even comment on why Gilabrand removed "killed". --IRISZOOM (talk) 05:41, 12 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have corrected it now. --IRISZOOM (talk) 03:05, 13 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

PalRem[edit]

The PalRem site is including some materials, but being a radical nationalistic propaganda site (operated by a banned Wikipedian) is not reliable or verifiable - as concluded by administrator already in 2011. I'm removing it in line with the 2011 ruling, until there is a change in this decision.GreyShark (dibra) 13:09, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, yeah the very objective Jayjg (do I need to remind you of his history, how he was sanctioned for his partisan views?) Seriously, it has basically been consensus for these last half-dozen years to:

A: use the Hadawi-refs in the article (It is used in 500-600 article), recently together with the original data (it is discussed here: User talk:Huldra#For the Mandate's map).
B: use the site itself as a WP:EL (it has many useful pictures...+ useful 1922, 1931, and 1945 data to check)

If you want to change this long-term consensus, then bring the discussion to where there are "more eyes", (say, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration), Huldra (talk) 22:13, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cuchullain: clearly said the site is not reliable. However, i didn't even delete the source itself, but deleted this self-promoted propaganda blog link, which has no place on Wikipedia. Your attempt to add this redundant propaganda site link to every article is rather troubling.GreyShark (dibra) 07:21, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

...while User:Al Ameer son did not agree. Again; if you want to change this long-term consensus, then bring the discussion to someplace where there are "more eyes", Huldra (talk) 21:32, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(1) There has never been a convention that the opinion of an administrator at RSN has greater weight than than the opinion of anyone else there. (2) Regarding links to standard sources hosted by PR (the Survey of Palestine, and Village Statistics 1945), these are examples of Convenience links which appear all over Wikipedia even though the rules about them are not crystal clear. Both these two sources are now available on the internet in other places in less convenient form, so it can no longer (actually, never could) be argued that the hosted copy of the document is unreliable. So this usage is allowed. (3) It is clear that PR should not be cited as the original source of a fact, but the rules for external links do not have reliability as one of the criteria. Each case can be argued on its own merits. The pages that PR has on each site are actually rather similar in nature to the web pages of Israeli kibbutzim/moshavim, with lots of photos and personal reminiscences but little that's directly citable; they should be handled in the same way. Zero^talk 22:19, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Burayr = Bror Hayil?[edit]

Was Burayr located where ancient Bror Hayil was located? I cannot see any reference to Burayr in the source that is given in the article, what am I missing? Huldra (talk) 21:27, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The source is inadequate for the reason you stated. This is one of those many places whose ancient identification comes mostly from the similarity in name. Tsafrir p93 is one place that does it. Also Dauphin. Zero^talk 22:34, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Neubauer seem to be the first to suggest it (in 1868)..and even he puts a question-mark behind the statement. So yeah, it need to be rewritten that it is a suggestion, not a proven fact, Huldra (talk) 22:54, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]