Talk:Camping

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old topics[edit]

The basic premise of this article is flawed..it should be called recreational camping..not even getting into the history section there are millions if not billions of people who camp either because its the only life they know...they prefer to live outdoors full time...or they do it because they are empoverished..this article should make a distinction between camping and recreational camping which it does not...also in the 2nd sentence of the article it defines people who camp as leaving the city etc to live in a natural setting temporarily..this is incorrect...many people who live in rural areas which are by definition natural camp..in my experience they are actually more apt to do it than city dwellers...when the weather is good they will simply move outdoors where they feel more comfortable..before air conditioning it was very common in summer...lots of people still do it..it has nothing to do with recreation. Lonepilgrim007 (talk) 06:57, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Some previous history of this article from before the move is at camping (recreation). I moved this article since virtually all links (30 to 1) are to camping as recreation not camping as video game cheating. Rmhermen 18:05, Jan 8, 2004 (UTC)


Hmm. This is a case where it would possibly be better to have the camping (recreation) article here, and include a note about the other meaning of camping, with link to that article. Thoughts? Evercat 16:20 16 May 2003 (UTC)

I disagree. I created this page when there were but two uses of the word, but now there are numerous uses of the word listed. If there were but two uses, I think it'd be okay to have the camping (recreation) as the default with links to the others (e.g. at the top of the article). But since there are so many possible meanings listed here, I think its better to leave it as it is. Just MHO of course. :-) -Frecklefoot 18:03 16 May 2003 (UTC)

OK. Though I'm unsure that political camps or sports camps should be here, since they aren't really related to camping, the verb. And I have no idea why football is here. Evercat 18:06 16 May 2003 (UTC)

I thought some of the references were pretty obscure too. :-) If no one writes an article for any of the links in, say, a month, should we revisit this and move the camping (recreation) article to the top? -Frecklefoot 18:20 16 May 2003 (UTC)

A game of football? Do tell. Kingturtle 17:51 16 May 2003 (UTC)

I'd never heard of it either, but according to this page, camping was a mediaeval game played in East Anglia. --Camembert

handaxe needs disambiguation, though I always like to have some flints on me. --Yak 18:27, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)

Clean up intro[edit]

I am removing this from the second graf unless it can be sourced:

It continues to be a response to the increasing urbanization and isolation of Western society. Camping is often associated with a sense of nostalgia or of romanticism for 'the times of our fathers'. It simultaneously evokes images of 'oneness with nature' and 'man against nature' - independence and self-sufficiency ... Camping divides those who enjoy it from those who do not more distinctly than most other common leisure activities.

Daniel Case 13:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

bbq[edit]

is barbecue considered a staple in camping? there is no mention of it in this article. Chensiyuan 16:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

That depends on your definition of barbecue. Roasting hot dogs over a campfire is pretty common, as far as I can tell, and people cook all sorts of things in hot coals, but I haven't seen many barbecue grills at campsites. --Smack (talk) 21:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Depends people camping with large RVs may bring a barbeque grill. People tent camping probably won't - but cooking on a campfire is common. Rmhermen 22:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Developed campsites in the western U.S. commonly have barbecue grills installed, either as part of a fire ring or at waist height on a pole for easier cooking. Those campsites attract both RVers and tent campers. -Will Beback · · 23:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
You're right; grills built into fire rings are common, but I'm not sure whether or not that's considered barbecue. --Smack (talk) 05:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
There's barbecue and then there's "barbecue". A bbq can be another name for a charcoal grill, or it can refer to an elaborate process of slowly cooking hunks of meat with a tasty marinade in a specialized roaster. I'd presumed that Chensiyuan meant the simple grill. -Will Beback · · 08:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thanks all on your input. im not from a part of the world where camping is commonplace. by 'barbecue' i simply meant cooking food over an outdoor fire.

OK, I've added the grills to this sentence:

  • Most campers prefer to use sites with special facilities such as fire rings, barbecue grills, bathrooms and utilities, but not all campsites offer similar levels of development.

Does that sound right? -Will Beback · · 09:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

sounds all right to me.Chensiyuan 09:04, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Sounsd Non-NPOV to me... can you source that? I know alot of people who prefer NOT to stay at campsites w/ grills and firepits (and lots of noisy RV's and stupid tourists)... etc. Leif902 13:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Good point. How about:
  • 'Many campgrounds have sites with special facilities such as fire rings, barbecue grills, bathrooms and utilities, but not all campsites have similar levels of development.
Is that better?
-Will Beback · · 23:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds better to me. --Smack (talk) 05:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


Urban camping[edit]

What about camping out for video games or a large sale?

Well, if we've got a source for it we could include something. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 05:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

A couple of proposed revisions[edit]

  • In Section "Definitions": "Survivalist campers set off with little more than their boots...." Most "survivalists" I know (and that ain't many, but I consider myself one...) would not think of setting off without a bug-out bag at minimum (if given the choice.) The only exception I can think of is survival tests (self-imposed or otherwise,) which I, at least, wouldn't consider "camping." I'm not saying that ultralight backpackers (and perhaps others) don't go camping with no gear, just the term "survivalist" here.
So I'd propose the weasely "Some campers set off..." or "Ultralight backpackers set off..." etc.
  • "The most comfortable form of camping uses recreational vehicles (RVs), essentially wheeled houses." Can someone point out an objective reliable source which suggests an RV is the most comfortable? I've stayed in RVs, Campers, and Pop-Ups. Personally, I find a tent to be the most comfortable. I know of others who believe anything less than open sky is not comfortable. Now if that were "The most expensive form of..." I'd buy it, so to speak.  ;) Is there a better way to phrase this sentence that won't tick off crusty old tent campers like me?
Agreed, "comfort" is relative and possibly POV. I changed it to "range of amenities". While comfort may be arguable, it's hard to say that an RV doesn't have more amenities than a backpacking tent. Hope that helps. --Rehcsif 19:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, I just went bold and added "and privately owned campgrounds" to the introduction. Hope that's OK with everyone. 02:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

  • "One form of bicycle touring combines camping with cycling. The bicycle is used to carry the gear and as the primary means of transportation, allowing greater distances to be covered than backpacking although less capacity for storage." Where does this come from? Less? More it should be! You can take whatever you can in backpacking on your back (roughly), plus you can [bags to the side of your bike]. So I think "although less" should be "and more". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 158.64.77.146 (talk) 12:22, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

Glamping[edit]

I created a page for glamping (a portmanteau for glamorous camping) and it got deleted - although I admit it wasn't much info at first. If someone knows more about it, we could put a section on here that 'glamping' redirects to.JW (talk) 19:31, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Non-international usage[edit]

In the United Kingdom, the term "camping" specifically refers to tents. One would never describe someone caravaning or motorhoming as 'camping'. 86.21.227.237 (talk) 22:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Should this article be split so that 'camping' only deals with tents and the like, with caravans and motorhomes in a separate article? Murray Langton (talk) 10:48, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree with splitting the article. Camping is tents to us in Australia, and I think this is a fairly understanding of the word.--Dmol (talk) 12:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. This is certainly the U.S./Canadian usage. In many campgrounds a tent can go on any site and a camper on any with a good surface. How is cooking smores on a campfire different if you have a tent or a trailer? You would have to duplicate most of the content of the article. We already have sub-articles on backpacking, canoe camping, camping coaches, Recreational vehicles, etc. Rmhermen (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Camping in different countries[edit]

I have created Category:Camping by country to clear out the clutter in Category:Camping. I have also written a Camping in New Zealand article. I urge editors to do the same for their respective countries. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 09:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Some councils have a ban on camping unless it is at a permitted camping site. What I would like to know is, if camping is living in tents, what category do motor-homes come into. What is the difference between parking a motor-home and camping. If I park my motor-home overnight and sleep in it, am I camping? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.72.137 (talk) 04:06, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

It depends on which country you are in. In USA using a motor home counts as camping, while in UK and NZ camping is taken to imply using a tent. Also some countries allow you to stop overnight in remote areas wherever you like, while others strictly enforce restrictions on where such stops may take place. Murray Langton (talk) 05:37, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Making it read more like an encyclopedia[edit]

Some edits were done recently bu Arpingstone that I would have done myself if I had had the time, significantly improving it and making it less like a how-to manual, which it is not. It also improved the conciseness of the article in places. They were reverted by Reddi, who wanted them discussed first. I just wanted to say first, they didn't seem that drastic to me; and second, they seem like a big improvement. I'm with Arpingstone. I'm not sure of the best way to go about this, since it seems to be a fairly seldom-visited page, so I'm going to revert to Arpingstone's version - but please don't take offence, and happy to discuss... hamiltonstone (talk) 23:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks, Hamiltonstone, for your kind remarks about my edits. This article was most certainly not encyclopedic and needed the mass of edits I gave it. Some editors don't recognise encyclopedic style so think the edits are malicious or incorrect when an article gets edited to that style. I would like to explain every edit I did but that's hopelessly too long a job.
Reddi has great experience (40,000 edits to my 20,000 edits) so its odd that he mass-reverted edits that were thoughtful and clearly not the work of a vandal. He even put the px values back in the picture code which is against documented WP policy. So thanks again and Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 17:49, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

The history of Camping[edit]

Why is there no section on the history of camping, it just talks about camping. How can a user fully understand camping if they don't have any background information on camping, and it's origins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Objective22 (talkcontribs) 04:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

A complete, comprehensive history of camping is probably impossible. In the most general sense (any form of sleeping/living outside) camping probably dates back to the very first days of humanity (no matter what origin you believe), before houses were invented and everyone had to 'camp' outside. It's use as a resting point between more permenant dwellings (such as on long journeys across sparsely inhabited areas) probably dates back to the first days of having permenant living places.
But a history of recreational camping should be do-able if someone cares to do the research. There is probably a definitive point where people started to regard spending time in basic accomodation outdoors as fun instead of a nessesity. Danikat (talk) 14:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
I came here to find out about the history of recreational camping. I remember hearing that Americans invented recreational camping, and thought that Wikipedia would be a good place to begin fact checking, (like usual) but i was disappointed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.3.134.133 (talk) 19:40, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Bicycle capacity[edit]

The section on camping with a bicycle includes the phrase 'despite less capacity for storage' by comparison with tramping/backpacking. I doubt whether this is correct: a pair of bicycle panniers has a capacity of around 50 litres, so with two pairs of panniers (one pair on front wheel, one pair on back wheel) we get a capacity of around 100 litres. Can also add a carrier bag (20+ litres), a handlebar bag (15+ litres), and an underseat bag (5 litres). How many rucsacks have a capacity over 100 litres? As an alternative to pannier bags, I tow a bicycle trailer for trips up to about 40 miles/day; trailers vary in capacity - mine is nearly 100 litres. Murray Langton (talk) 09:12, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced text removed. Cheers, Wassupwestcoast (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

re Camping Equipment[edit]

I'm not sure if this list of 'camping equipment' is really appropriate here, since it seems to include a lot of things which a backpacker for example would not even consider (folding chairs!). Also those who use an over-equipped 'Recreational Vehicle' would not generally bother with a tent.

Alternatively the list could be split into several sections, indicating those items more appropriate to the various forms of transport used.

Any other ideas for making the list more useful? Murray Langton (talk) 20:37, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Types of camping[edit]

I removed these two: "Beach camping is increasing in popularity in countries with open sea. The main advantage of this type of camping is that the campers do not need to carry around lots of necessary equipment. In this case, the equipment consists of a decent tent, cookware and camping stove. Beach camping is also growing in popularity because it offers a genuine camping experience without having to hike many miles and because of the recreation opportunities available by being located next to a beach.[1]

Lake camping usually refers to the activity which involves driving a car to a campsite, near to a lake. This is normally a great choice for people who enjoy camping but do not have too much time available to do it. Lake camping is done during the weekend, as a quick vacation. Although it does not involve hiking, it is still called camping because the campers are sleeping in a tent at the site. Moreover, this is one of the most comfortable types of camping given the fact that the sites are typically regulated and there are bathroom and shower facilities available."

These seem to be only locations to camp in not "kinds" of camping alongside the other items on the list. There is certainly nothing unusual about camping by lakes where I live - and there aren't all driveup campsites either. To camp at the largest lake on the largest island on the largest lake, for instance, requires a 4-6 hour boat ride then a 15 mile hike. Beach camping doesn't require less equipment but more - to take advantage of watersports. But equipment is mainly a matter of personal style (and number of children). Some beach sites are quite remote, even more so than some hike-in site as they can only be reached by boats. At the same park I mentioned before one campground is 15 miles off the mainland (but about 120 miles of water travel if taking the official park boats.) Rmhermen (talk) 13:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Social camping[edit]

I still am not sure what this section is exactly but I removed this: "In states such as Connecticut, Iowa, Illinois, and Colorado, children, under the age of 18, do not need adult supervision in order to enjoy nature, as long as the camp is in designated recreational or camp areas. However, in some states such as Arkansas, Rhode Island, and Georgia, many people cannot camp until the age of 21 without a proper camping permit.[clarification needed]"

It doesn't seem to fit into the section. Rmhermen (talk) 21:37, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Image layout[edit]

I would like to revert to the standard images on the right rather than the two images on either side of each at the beginning of each section with only a small column of text between, followed by a large block of text with no images. I wanted to ask here for a third opinion first though. Rmhermen (talk) 23:06, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Agreed ... plus thinning out some of the redundant images - no need for multiple photos to illustrate the same things. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 00:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Reorganized - but I would like a better lead image still. Rmhermen (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

history section[edit]

Despite claims that an Englishman came to American, learned camping and then returned home and invented it in 1901 and popularized it writing in 1908:

1799 first camp meeting (James McGready in Logan county, Kentucky)
1801 Cane Ridge Revival camp meeting in Kentucky
1807 First camp meeting in England
1818 Oldest surving camp meeting founded Hollow Rock, Ohio [1]
1832 Shiloh Camp meeting in Missisippi started [2]
1848 Paradise campground in Galena claims to be oldest in Illinois (needs independent sourcing)
1850 First Thames camping skiff built.[3]
1857 Alpine Club (UK) founded
1861 Gunnery Camp in Connecticut[4] " F. W. Gunn is credited as starting recreational camping as we know it today, and the tradition goes back to 1861 when he took his students on a forty mile walk to Welch's Point in Milford."[5]
1862 Austrian Alpine Club founded
1863 First Swiss Alpine Club hut
1865 Des Plaines Methodist Camp Ground - thousands erected tents in the summer to attend revival meetings
1868 Norwegian Trekking Association founded
1869 William Henry Harrison Murray publishes Adventures in the Wilderness; or, Camp-Life in the Adirondacks. As many as 5,000 people try to camp in the area that summer, making "Adirondack" Murray the father of camping.[6]
1871-1874 “McGuirk’s Medicinal Springs" invalid camp in Yellowstone[7]
1874 First YWCA camp
1874 Club alpin français founded
1874 Patent for a folding table notes it could be useful for "camping out" parties[8]
1876 First private U.S. summer camp for boys (Dr. Joseph Trimble Rothrock)
1876 Appalachian Mountain Club founded (a fishing camp founded this year later becomes an official hut)
1876 The Adventures of Tom Sawyer has Tom playing pirate, making camp and cooking on a campfire
1877 Thomas Hiram Holding goes on a canoe camping trip in Scotland; published account titled The Cruise of the Osprey
1879 Camp Life in the Wilderness by Charles A.J. Farrar describes a two-week trip in Maine in 1874.
1879 Samuel White Baker ships a Gypsy caravan from England to Cyprus for his holiday tour.Cyprus as I saw it
1880-1883 George W. Sears (Nessmuk) publishes details of his solo canoe camping trips in the Adirondacks in Forest and Stream magazine
1880 First leisure trailer built for William Gordon Stables of Scotland
1880 The organizing meeting of the American Canoe Association noted that camping sites would be available to any who desires one.[9]
1882-3 concessionaire's leases at Yellowstone modified so that they wouldn't interfere with the enjoyment of campers[10]
1883-4 several hotel tent camps at Yellowstone (semi-permanent tents with service buildings)
1884 George Sears writes Woodwork, a book on "ultralight" camping, camp cooking, fishing, and solo canoeing
1885 Arnold Hague of the U.S geological Survey suggests to the secretary of the interior that Yellowstone should offer licenses for “pack-trains and outfits for the accommodation of those who wish to leave the beaten tracks and camp out in the mountains"
1885 First YMCA boys camp, Camp Baldhead (later known as Camp Dudley)
1885 Gordon Stables writes The Gentleman Gypsy about travel in his caravan "Wanderer"
1886 Boys' Brigade in Scotland holds their first camp
1888 Oldest hut in the Appalachian Mountain Club system (based on Alpine huts already existing)
1889 Jerome K. Jerome publishes Three Men in a Boat describing a Thames River boat camping trip
1889 Camping and camp outfits. A manual of instruction[11], Shields, G. O. (George O.). "based on twenty-five years' experience in camping and the study of camp-lore..." Not his first book on the subject and mentions he has already been using a sleeping bag for several years instead of the old-style bankets. (also calls hiking "tramping").
1890 Alonzo McMaster of Locport, New York patents improvements in a camping vehicle with toilet, stove, ice box, fresh water tanks, convertible seat/beds, wardrobe
1892 First organized co-ed camp, Camp Arey in Arey, New York[12]
1892 "McMaster Camping Car" was available to rent at Yellowstone for $5 a day. This was a horse-drawn gypsy-type wagon equiped for 12-day trips.[13][14]
1894 Oldest continuously operating camp on one site in North America: Keewaydin Camp was organized on Lake Temagami in Ontario, Canada
1897 Thomas Hiram Holding invents bicycle camping, publishes Cycle and Camp in Connemara
1897 Yellowstone was so popular that campers were only allowed to camp for two days at any one spot, no camping within 100 feet of a road, campsite to be cleaned by burning or removed trash.[15]
1898 24 companies had permits to guide camping trips in Yellowstone which was half of all visitors[16]
1898 First Canadian YMCA camp[17]
1900 First Boys' Club camp[18]
1901 Thomas Hiram Holding holds first camp with the Association of Cycle Campers, later known as The Camping and Caravanning Club, at Wantage, England
1902 Specially desirable camping places should be protected from development of hotels in U.S. national forests[19]
1902 Woodcraft Indians scouting founded. First edition of the Birch Bark Roll
1902 First private girl's camp, Camp Kehonka, the first, private independent girls' organized camp near Wolfeboro, New Hampshire, in 1902"[20]
1904 Camp Highlands for Boys in Sayner, Wisconsin - oldest continuously operated, private camp
1905 Sons of Daniel Boone scouting founded
1906 The book of camping and woodcraft - a guidebook for those who travel in the wilderness[21] Horace Kephart "As for camps within easy reach of town or supply-posts, everyone, I suppose, know best how to gratify his own tastes in fitting them up..."
1906 Alpine Club of Canada founded
1907 First Boy Scout camp - Brownsea Island
1908 The Camper's Handbook published by Thomas Hiram Holding
1908 Scouting for Boys first published
1909 Girl Guides founded
1910 Auto campers (recreational vehicles) first produced in U.S.[22]
1910 "Camp Directors Association of America" founded by male directors of boys' camps, later called American Camping Association
1910 First Boy Scouts USA camp
1910 Camp Fire Girls founded
1911 (In 2011) "With over ninety-five camps that are 100 years old or older, camp is a genuine tradition."[23]
1912 First Girl Scouts USA camp[24]

Rmhermen (talk) 19:25, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

There are multiple related ideas here:
  • working and living in the wilderness (logging camps, prospectors, traders, hunters, trappers, explorers, rendezvous) - probably not "camping" - very old
  • camp meetings - religious-oriented gatherings in central locations with temporary living quarters - somewhat like modern festival camping, maybe "camping" - at least by 1799
  • "recreational camping" - non-work, non-religious - at least by the 1860s
  • "organized camps", group camps, summer camps - often permanent building but not always, focused on outdoor skills and recreation - maybe "camping" - at least by 1861
  • Alpine huts - permanent structures, may provide food, sleeping quarters, etc - maybe "camping" - at least by 1863
  • permanent tent camps - a step down from the hotels in the wilderness but with at least partly canvas semi-permanent or permanent tents, may have wooden floors, halfwalls, support buildings (dining hall, etc.) - probably "camping" - at least by 1870s
  • designated areas for individual camping - at least by 1890s
  • scouting organization camping - 1902

Rmhermen (talk) 20:32, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Father of camping: I have found (so far) several people mentioned as the "father of camping" ("recreational camping", "modern camping"):

  • Frederick Gunn, 1861
  • William Henry Harrison Murray 1869
  • George W. Sears 1880
  • Horace Kephart 1906
  • Thomas Hiram Holding, cycle camping 1898, general camping 1908

Rmhermen (talk) 06:26, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Camping equipment[edit]

The section Camping equipment (as it reads now), is written too much like a guide on how to camp. Wikipedia is not a guide. Wikibooks is a more suitable place to write on what one "must" possess. This section contains many uncited opinions such as "Any camper, and not only the survival ones, need waterproof matches..." Further, this article is about camping in general and thus all it's forms, but the section implies inaccurate assertions about the needs of teardrop trailer campers, hammock campers and other forms. As I do not see a way to revise this section in a way that will not gather original thought, I am inclined to delete it and expanded the of common equipment. Do any other editors here see an alternative solution?
Sparkgap (talk) 19:14, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

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  1. ^ "Beach Camping Sites Information". Retrieved 2010-05-27.