Talk:Canada

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Featured articleCanada is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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Discussion of Canada's official name

Canada's name
Official Name 1

Future TFA paragraph

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Health care cost[edit]

We seem to have a bit of a problem with "Canada ranks among the most expensive universal-access health-care systems". This is easily sourced and a contention point for Canadians.... but see it keeps getting removed. Can we get more of an explanation as to why and why no effort to find sources that differ? List of countries by total health expenditure per capita

--Moxy 🍁 00:57, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
It's not a valuable stat because the the OECD not only includes highly developed countries, but also Easteren Southern and Eastern Europe, Mexico, Chile and Turkey with much lower GDP per capita. It ignores too that the government share of spending is lower than the average. Essentially spending in Canada is similar to other developed countries with the notable exception of the U.S. You need a secondary source that provides context. TFD (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Changed to "Canada's per capita spending ranks it among the most expensive health-care systems in the OECD.[1] can people see this?Moxy 🍁 15:00, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
My issue was with using the Fraser Institute, which is a partisan org with a clear bias about how it thinks healthcare should be delivered, to source statements about the cost of the current healthcare system, statements which seem like simple facts (healthcare spending per capita) but which are actually potentially thorny because how does whatever org measure what counts as a healthcare cost? I have no issue with using OECD stats, although yes, as stated above, we should be clear as to the provenance of any rankings/stats because similarly, what the OECD considers healthcare costs may differ from what other entities consider healthcare costs. There was also some cherry-picking going on, since even the Fraser Institute source mentioned the healthcare admin costs per capita were fairly low, yet that wasn't included in the article here. Obviously we can't include every detail about healthcare costs but mentioning the major ones where Canada is high and omitting ones where it is low seems like a clear case of a non-neutral approach. As I mentioned in an edit summary, the best sources of info on healthcare costs in Canada would be peer-reviewed academic research. —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:04, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
The Frasier view is that too much money is spent on health care, so it should be delivered on a for-profit basis. To show this, they provide selective data. But is it fair to compare spending in Canada with Greece and Turkey or with the U.S., Germany, France and Japan, all of which spend a higher percentage of GDP. And is it significant that the 10.53% of GDP Canadians spend on health care is higher than Norway at 10.50%?[1] To me it is more accurate to say that health care spending in Canada is comparable to that in other developed countries, with the exception of the U.S. These stats call for interpretation, which requires secondary sources. TFD (talk) 19:14, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

I just thought a link to the data would be best....but could add the sources below?

--Moxy 🍁 05:01, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

References

Short description of Canada[edit]

Hello Joeyconnick,
Could you please explain why you reverted my edit? Interstellarity (talk) 19:53, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure thing: because we don't use physical geography size rankings in our short descriptions. We use short and simple descriptions. So "Country in North America" is short and sweet and also (basically) matches the lead. —Joeyconnick (talk) 19:56, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Joeyconnick, OK, that's clear to me. I'm so sorry about making the edit. Interstellarity (talk) 20:51, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
No worries. I appreciate you asking for a rationale. Sometimes I'm making edits quickly and don't always put explanations in edit summaries. —Joeyconnick (talk) 20:58, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

About language[edit]

Please add Punjabi language in the top section of the page as this language is recognized minority language in Canada. Bram321 (talk) 15:31, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Bram321, where specifically are you wanting this to be added, and do you have a source to add with it? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:55, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, for sure this guy has a source for that ridiculous ask; it seems he wants it in the infobox too. Undoubtedly not recognized by Canada, and this ask should not have to be entertained whatsoever. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:59, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I want this to be added under official languages like 3rd language. Yes I have it. Bram321 (talk) 09:19, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

What source do you have that this is an official language? Please cite it here. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Anyway Mandarin and Cantonese speaking numbers are higher than Punjabi and we don't list them. Canterbury Tail talk 13:44, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
There are only two official languages. While government must provide service in English and French, it may provide service in other languages at its discretion. TFD (talk) 13:36, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I know that Punjabi is not official language of Canada but there should be another section of other languages Bram321 (talk) 07:54, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I saw this Punjabi Now Third Language in Parliament of Canada on immigration.ca website of Canada. Bram321 (talk) 07:58, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

That website is not a reliable source. What does "Third Language in Parliament of Canada" mean? Does it mean the language was their first and one that they continue to speak? Does it mean that it's a language which they speak? Does it mean that they conduct parliamentary business in that language? It's not an official language so cannot be any language in parliament. While there may be several speakers of the language who are parliamentarians, there are also many speakers of Mandarin, and other languages. Without more clear information, we can't add it to the article. I say this as one who has Mandarin-speaking, Cantonese-speaking, Punjabi-speaking, German-speaking, Tagalog-speaking, Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking co-workers and neighbours. I'm not opposed to multi-culturalis, or opposed to publishing reliable information about these languages, but it must be reliable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 08:18, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with you 💯

Bram321 (talk) 08:31, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
There are literally dozens of "other languages" besides English and French that are spoken by some percentage of Canadian people. Spanish, Chinese, Hindi, Portuguese, Tagalog, German, Swedish, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Arabic, Cree, Inuktitut, Anishinaabe, Haida, Haitian Creole, Romanian, Russian, Bulgarian, Polish...is there any reason why we should single out Punjabi for special attention in the infobox as though it were more important than any of the others? Bearcat (talk) 17:02, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Error in 2019 Trade Surplus[edit]

“The country's 2019 trade surplus totalled CA$762 billion, compared with a CA$46.9 billion surplus in 2008.”[221]

Should say “$762 million”, not billion, as per source 221. Tluke96 (talk) 02:18, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done thank you for taking the time to inform us.--Moxy 🍁 03:40, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Dominion of Canada[edit]

I provided a valid third-party source that states how the "Dominion of Canada" is still an official name for the country as it is stated in the constitution. However it is not usually used in an official sense, hence "sometimes the..." instead of "officially the...". However this was for some reason deleted. I request that this is shown or at least mentioned on this page. Chisnallmarty (talk) 14:57, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

@Chisnallmarty: The archives are filled with discussions like this. Start by searching for the term and summarizing what you find there. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:05, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
@Walter Görlitz: "When the Canadian constitution was patriated in 1982, the entire British North America Act was incorporated into it as the Constitution Act, 1867. So the word Dominion continues to be part of the official title of this country." It also explains how post-1982 documents in Canada usually only ever use "Canada" when referring to the country in an official manner, this is why I said "sometimes" instead of "officially" as it is more of a de jure only name with the de facto name being just "Canada". Chisnallmarty (talk) 15:21, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
According to the Canadian Encyclopedia, (1999), "The word came to be applied to the federal government and Parliament, and under the Constitution Act, 1982, 'Dominion' remains Canada's official title." see Canadian Encyclopedia, (1999) p 680. online Rjensen (talk) 15:29, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
We have had this talk many times best not try to edit war it in...."the word Dominion did not appear anywhere in the new Constitution Act, 1982. It also did not appear in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms."the Canadian encyclopedia..... would be fine with saying it remains the official title.... but the wording above implies that it's in the act and it's not.....and the quote regurgitate some information from above. Overall not a good edit so it was removed.--Moxy 🍁 15:41, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
the source you quote --Canadian Encyclopedia ends with this paragraph: "Even so, the old BNA Act (now called the Constitution Act, 1867) remains a part of Canada’s comprehensive Constitution, along with the 1982 statute. As such, Dominion of Canada remains the country’s formal, if seldom used, national title." (bold added). No need to erase that statement especially is you do NOT have a reliable source that states otherwise, Rjensen (talk) 16:12, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
Pls re-read above then reply.--Moxy 🍁 16:14, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
@Chisnallmarty: So you do not want to read the discussion in the archives and explain the existing consensus? Fine. I'm not regurgitating and the current consensus has not changed for me. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:20, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
  • let's nip this in the butt.. added "Nevertheless "Dominion" remains the country’s formal title despite being rarely used in formal or public settings" in the body.. let's see if other here are OK with it.--Moxy 🍁 16:28, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree with Moxys's last idea--"Nevertheless "Dominion" remains the country’s formal title despite being rarely used in formal or public settings" . As for the talk page archives 1) I did read them all. 2) I found no consensus 3) Worst of all no one was using a reliable secondary source. everyone wants to read the primary sources and interpret them according to their private preconceived ideas of what Canada ought to be like. Rjensen (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
I too am in agreement with Moxy's compromise. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:59, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
Was sure there was an RfC about ...don't see it here or at Name of Canada... must be in the huge archive at the project...but from what I remember all the sources discussed are used at Name of Canada.--Moxy 🍁 16:42, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

If it is not used, it should not be speculated to be the "official"/"formal" whatever title. The Canadian Encyclopedia is speculating. It does not reveal its source. Alaney2k (talk) 17:03, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I am ok with the change...let the source explain...and our main article on the topic.--Moxy 🍁 17:12, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
Nonsense: The Canadian Encyclopedia is speculating -- editors do not challenge reliable sources--especially when they have zero RS of their own --the Encyclopedia is highly regarded with signed articles written by four experts: Eugene Forsey, -- as well as Matthew Hayday, Richard Foot, and Andrew Mcintosh-- and endorsed on this page by Moxy, Walter Görlitz and Rjensen. Rjensen (talk) 18:34, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
Forsey is not neutral on this topic. He is allowed to have an opinion. If the government does not use it, and these sources are not current, then it would be speculating that it has any status today. Formal/official etc. are conferring status. That it was referred to as Dominion in 1867, is not under dispute. That it -remains- a formal or official term is what I dispute. Alaney2k (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
Got to be a way to say this without quoting . Quotes are non-encyclopedic when they can be summarized with little effort . Perhaps stable version till we have proper wording.--Moxy 🍁 18:40, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Lets all read Alan Rayburn (2001). Naming Canada: Stories about Canadian Place Names. University of Toronto Press. pp. 17–24. ISBN 978-0-8020-8293-0. ....lets see if we all interpret this info the same way PS - September 2019, Alan Rayburn, former president of the American Name Society and internationally recognized toponymist passed away at the age of 86. :-( --Moxy 🍁 19:09, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

From my reading: "officially dropped from the name of the 1 July holiday in October 1982", "External Affairs declared that Canada alone was official as both the long and the short name." "the title has not been officially dropped; it has only been suppressed" section on where it came from Psalm 72:8 (KJV) (and to a lesser extent, Zechariah 9:10) Term is tied to BNA (1867) although its legal name is strictly Canada". pages 21 and 22 missing... It is part of our constitution but is no longer in use and is legaly only "Canada"; no dominion involved. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:28, 17 January 2020 (UTC)