Talk:Canadian Pacific Railway

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Former featured article Canadian Pacific Railway is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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addition of the CPR and The Colonization of Canada section[edit]


Article Bias[edit]

This article reads a bit much like government and corporate propaganda and apologia, in places. It needs to be made more objective, and not just take one party's word as good coin.

User:Pazouzou —Preceding undated comment added 10:13, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Fort Qu'Appelle or Qu'Appelle?[edit]

The article states

In March 1885, the North-West Rebellion broke out in Saskatchewan. Van Horne, in Ottawa at the time, suggested to the government that the CPR could transport troops to Fort Qu'Appelle in eleven days.

Does the CPR go to Fort Qu'Appelle? Shouldn't this be Qu'Appelle? Check the Wikipedia entries for each - Fort Qu'Appelle is 65 km northeast of Regina, Qu'Appelle is located on the CPR mainline.

GreatGreenArkleseizure 04:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It's probably Fort Qu'Appelle, as it was closer to the North West Rebellion when it occurred. Van Horne was probably talking about time in relation to the combined train and foot distance rather than only the train distance itself (if you catch my drift). Allan kuan1992 (talk) 06:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Lack of Citations?[edit]

It seems that the whole history section, except the "1979 - Present" part, is severely lacking in citations. Can someone fix that? Allan kuan1992 (talk) 06:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah,sure! I'll get right on that! It's only 100 years of history. Check with me next year. R.L.Kennedy (talk) 01:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't know that sarcasm is needed. However, as of now, this article fails FAC. It's doesn't even meet the Good Article criteria. Calebrw (talk) 14:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

CP in BC[edit]

CP is such a huge empire, and so far reaching could we not have sub-pages ie CP in BC Here is a template for route map.

Canadian Pacific Railway in BC Route Diagram
0 mi Vancouver).(alt. 5 feet)
2 Hastings(alt. 5 )
3 Brighton(alt. 5)
11 Barnet(alt. 5)
26 Port Moody(alt. 5)
31 Port Coquitlam(alt. 5)
39 Haney(alt. 5)
46 Whonnock(alt. 5)
44 Ruskin(alt. 5)
59 Dewdney(alt. 5)
74 Lake Errock(alt. 5)
79 Harrison Mills(alt. 5)
94 Agassiz(alt. 5
99 Hope(alt. 20 )
104 Yale(alt. 20)
225 Spuzzum(alt. 25 )
466 Keefers(alt. 30)
116 North Bend(alt. 30)
120 Cisco(alt. 30 )
123 Lytton(alt. 40 )
130 Spences Bridge(alt. 50 )
138 Ashcroft(alt. 100 )
142 Savona(alt. 100 )
225 Cherry Creek(alt. 1862 )
154 Kamloops(alt. 100 )
157 Chase(alt. 100 )
173 Sorrento (alt. 200 )
176 Salmon Arm(alt. 200 )
196 Sicamous(alt. 200 )
203 Eagle Pass(alt. 452 )
225 Craigellachie(alt. 1862 )
214 Revelstoke(alt. 462 )
236 Rogers Pass(alt. 3600 )
466 Mount MacDonald(alt. 1400)
246 Golden(alt. 3500 )
252 Kicking Horse(alt. 3000 )
273 Field(alt. 2000 )
314 Hector(alt. 1500)
358 Banff(alt. 2000)

SFS, I don't think the route map can be dcone, as for the article it would have to be system wide; maybe on Kettle Valley Railway it's a good idea, but unless there were a separate CP article for BC - and there's good reasons historically why there should be, because of the corporation's overwhelming role in the province's history/development - then the table above is just "clutter" on a national page.....It's not teh same situation as the BCR....with the KVR, however, which is a BC-only topic and also not 4000 miles long, it's conceivable...Skookum1 (talk) 13:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Might be worth doing with the Esquimalt & Nanaimo, though.....and the old BCER line definitely....Skookum1 (talk) 13:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

that was the idea skook, to have a separate CPR in BC page. this being the start. E and N done, courtesy KWalker —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

A CP-in-BC article would be huge and it's very complex in nature, and I don't recommend YOU try starting it; it's gonna cause too many cleanup problems for other editors if you do it; that's not a criticism, it's a staement of fact since you aren't in the habit of showing respect for Wiki style guidelines, huh? I agree it's needed, and most other Canadian editors east of the mountains wouldnt' clue in why it's so important so I'm not going to field it there (other than they're here)'s politics - big politics, multiple companies - and too much room for "OR" (original research) adn "synthesis"; a route diagram is the least of our worries. If you want look into the small Kootenays railways - Kaslo & Slocan, Nakusp & Slocan - and like I said the BCER article could use such a diagram, if you can find a chart of their stations (other than by exploring basemap...).Skookum1 (talk) 17:42, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

hmmm, dissent in the ranks. I just write, editing is your department comrade. CP in BC is something to strive for. I got too much on the go to even try it now. must fix a few steamboat pages. K and S done, sort of, as is Sandon. For the most part, the work is done in print by Sandford, Turner, Berton etc, just a question of typing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Two more - Columbia and Kootenay Railway, which included the spur up the Slocan from Playmor Jct/South Slocan, and Columbia and Western Railway which I gather is incorporated, somehwat incorreclty,in the KVR article.Skookum1 (talk) 20:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

C and W was built by A. Heinze who raised the Trail Smelter. think he sold out to CP in 1905. He then lost all his money in the Panic of 07. The C and W was narrow gauge originally, with shay engines, to move the ore down Red Mtn to Trail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:45, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I've moved your British Columbia and the Canadian Pacific Railway draft article (that's my sugested title) to a sandbox page, probably User talk:Skookum1/CPinBC to keep it simple (I have other sandboxes). Ideally it should have been YOUR sandbox, which is where you should work up stuff like this; talkpages aren't the place and if I didn't move this an admin would have soon deleted it. I've wanted an article on the Carnarvon Terms for a while now and if you haven't read [ and about the Pacific Scandal yet you should so so right now...are you aware of teh Canadian Pacific Survey article? Anyway I'm gonna move that sandbox befrore we haev an edit conflict by you making a correction/addition - please take it all there and work it up to good shape, proerply wikifeified and cited, before you put it in main articlespace....Skookum1 (talk) 03:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

As a possible model, there's Utah Division (Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad). --NE2 21:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

There is something strange in the article. Rogers Pass in in BC and Chief Crowfoot and the Blackfoot Nation are in Alberta. I guess the story of Rogers and the $ 5000 cheque should be changed to another location, maybe after Kicking Horse Pass. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Not all that strange when you know that the Blackfoot used to frequent the East Kootenay/Columbia Valley.....will have to read the cite I guess, never heard of them on the Revelstoke-Jordan River part of the Columbia before......where peoples are todayand what their stated boundaries are is a new thing, though.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:32, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Comparison with other transcontinental railways?[edit]

I would like to know how this line compares (e.g. in length, construction time) with the earlier line across the US, and also with other key lines, especially the Transsiberian. Perhaps someone in the know could add info on these points? APW (talk) 09:01, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Canadian Pacific Map Update:[edit]

Obviously, this map of the CP is outdated. Compare the map currently at the top of the article with the map on the CPR website: This above link is a map of every single line (mainline & branchline) on the CP system as of 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:46, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Obviously, the map of CPR is outdated: Wait. This is still broken? Yeesh. If I had any artistic talent, I'd fix it, alas ... --plaws (talk) 02:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Another way the map is outdated: — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:49, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

CPR Police[edit]

I removed this recent addition as while it belongs in the article somewhere it doesn't belong in the lede; its last sentence also needs citation:

CP Railway has since its founding also maintained it's own police service, Canadian Pacific Railway Police Service to protect rail commerce and rail infrastructure. It is one of the oldest police services in Canada.

And of course that apostrophe-s "it's" needs fixing but I'm leaving it [sic] for now. Adjunct operations to the railway, including railway and shipping and logging and mining companies, all need their own proper sections; but they don't all belogn in the lede, especially something as minor as the railway's security operations.Skookum1 (talk) 03:27, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Logo/map/infobox size[edit]

Why is this so large? There are too many tweaks built into it - the size of the logo, the size of the map? Would someone knowledge about fixing infoboxes reduce the size of this please? It comes off as promotional/decorative, not information/summary.Skookum1 (talk) 03:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Marathon, Cominco, CPI, MacBlo etc.[edit]

The article somehow completely misses out on the full breadth's of the railway's wealth and financial empire; yes, in recent years they've been devolved adn the company's capital has been "decentralized" (largely for tax reasons, and liability issues, like other megacorps), but they're very much part of this railway's history and its legacy. Lists of locomotives and boxcar models are all very nice; but the relevant details in company terms are "what CP hath wrought", not lists of rolling stock. Cominco is currently a redirect ot Teck Resources, it shouldn't be....Marathon Realty was one of Canada's largest real estate companies, and probably still is under some other name (i can't keep track...). All of teh above highly relevant to the section above called "CP in BC"....Skookum1 (talk) 03:43, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

CPR and tourism[edit]

somewhere I saw a good book on how the CPR was one of the main instigators of the global tourism industry, and how the marketing of its hotels and mountain scenery and various poster designs/advertising campaign were key to that, as was the "Grand Tour" via CPR steamships connecting from Vancouver through the Orient to Suez, etc.. From what I remember they were even bigger than Thomas Cook....this should have a section here, don't know what kind of resources/sources are online.Skookum1 (talk) 23:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Canadian Pacific Lake and River Service[edit]

This major subsidiary at one time had 330 vessels on the BC Interior's lakes....I'll be at the Penticton Museum in the next while and will try and write up an article on it.Skookum1 (talk) 23:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


When did it more to Calgary? Where in Calgary is it? Where was it before Calgary? Needs to be in here. --Kevlar (talkcontribs) 13:31, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Scope of article[edit]

The title of the article is Canadian Pacific Railway, and the company hasn't operated anything else for over ten years. I would argue then that the sections on hotels, ships, the airline, etc don't belong in this article at all, except as appropriate in the history section. Another alternative is have a list of affiliated companies in the articles, that is just that, a list. But right now, the article presents these non-rail services as things that the company does now, rather than historical business units that are now operated by completely separate companies. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 12:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Bill Ackman, 2012 strike[edit]

Hey, what's going on? I had to add all the info re Ackman and the proxy battle and the 9 day strike. Aren't these things important? Look, I don't like Ackman either but no sense being in denial. And the strike?? I know there are editors far more dedicated to this article than I am and know more about it, mostly because they are from Canada I guess, what's the deal??!! Quis separabit? 22:28, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Lac-Mégantic derailment[edit]

The July 6, 2013 Lac-Mégantic derailment took place on the former CP mainline from Montréal to Saint John NB, which was sold to a series of short-line operators at the end of 1994. World Fuel Services, who owns the crude oil which derailed and destroyed downtown Lac-Mégantic, is being pursued by Québec's environment ministry and is defending itself by claiming the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway short line responsible for the disaster is a subcontractor of Canadian Pacific, not WFS.[1] Predictably, MM&A filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy exactly a month after the fire was extinguished and lawyers are now suing everyone right back to the oil field. [2]

Any reason for removing this info from the article, given that CP is likely to be named in litigation along with every other company remotely involved? K7L (talk) 17:06, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

As you say its "likely to be named" - it has not as of yet WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL. -- Moxy (talk) 17:14, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
My unsolicited opinion: There is also the question of whether information about the specific disaster incident or whether details about the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway lawsuits would be relevant. Even if CPRail is named as a party to the lawsuits it would need to be seen whether CPRail is judically recognized as being an actual contractor and a legitimate party to the cases, the Judge could dismiss CPRail from the lawsuit which would mean updating the article to reflect the judically-recognized non-involved.
Also there is the question of special pleading in that mentioning the occasional historic events within any corporation's history of operation would need to be fairly complete to remain encyclopedic in the context of Wikipedia policy. This disaster could be mentioned if CPRail is Judically recognized to be culpable to any degree, yet a new section would need to be created which enumerates all known incidents of historic relevance, otherwise a single disaster rather stands out oddly. Damotclese (talk) 18:27, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
The coverage of other disasters is incomplete; the 1910 Rogers Pass avalanche and the steamship collisions are there, but much of the rail history is missing - particularly the Spanish River derailment which killed 43 (some sources indicate 63) or the 1979 Mississauga train derailment, Canada's largest peacetime evacuation with 200000 displaced. This needs to be fixed by adding the missing info as these are historically notable. K7L (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

CP in Europe from 1912 onwards[edit]

Hi, everyone! I was looking for reference as to how Canadian Pacific coaches got to Italy, even as part of Mussolini's train, and I enclose the link to the site explaining this. Hope you work on it. Keep up the good work. Cheers from Dario Romani — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:00, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Sulfur or sulphur?[edit]

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Spelling seems to indicate that "sulfur" is the preferred spelling in Canadian English. WP:ALUM also recommends this spelling, as do all modern chemistry style guides. Is there a reason to prefer the archaic spelling here? --John (talk) 23:07, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

I am quite surprised that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Spelling lists sulfur as acceptable in the Canadian column. In my experience, Canadians strongly prefer sulphur, so much so that whenever I see sulfur, I have to pause for a second before remembering that is how they spell it some other countries. The Oxford Canadian Dictionary uses sulphur as the primary entry, and sulfur as "var. of sulphur". And the CPR itself uses sulphur: "Sulphur". Canadian Pacific Railway. Retrieved 1 May 2016. .
Fascinating, I had not known that two variants were in use. I would expect that common usage is the correct one to use here, so what does Google say? sulfur turns up 32,500,000 results, sulphur turns up 36,600,000 results, so either seem reasonably in use equally. For what it's worth. Damotclese (talk) 15:48, 2 May 2016 (UTC)