|WikiProject Classical music / Compositions|
|WikiProject Music/Music genres task force||(Rated Start-class)|
Article originally from 1911 enc.
Frankly, I don't see the point of pasting in stuff from the 1911 encyclopedia. You find it all over Wikipedia and some of it is really bad. In any case, it's all available on the web already so what's the point of reproducing it here?
BevRowe 18:22 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)
- I agree with you basically, but what we have here is better than nothing, I think (this perhaps isn't always the case with 1911 articles though). Feel free to write an article of your own to replace the 1911 text. --Camembert
- You would say that, wouldn't you! I'm not qualified to do it. But I think my point about 1911 already being on the web is valid. BevRowe 18:43 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)
I agree that this article is better than nothing, but its origin really does show, and not always in a good way. E.g.:
- 1. "The music was far more coherent than is possible in the Anglican church." (ok for 1911 Britannica, but parochial for wikipedia)
- 2. "There has, perhaps, been only one kind of cantata since Bach which can be recognized as an art form and not as a mere title for works otherwise impossible to classify." (very POV)
- 3. "Brahms has probably said the last word on this subject." (POV and dated)
-- 188.8.131.52 07:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
- I just removed those three meaningless sentences, but the article still needs some heavy editing. Apus 13:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Bach's congregation did not sing along with the final chorale -- this is a Romantic-era myth that has long been dispelled and no serious Bach scholar argues that this occured. The problem is finding a cite for this. Because no serious Bach scholar believes it, they don't really bother taking the time to specifically refute it (as just one among many Romantic-era myths of Bach and his musical practices). However, I think the entire section that mentions that could be justifiably removed since it's mostly a NPOV defense of Bach's cantatas against phantom (uncited) allegations that the final chorale represents an anticlimax.
- Please sign your post --TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:29, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
- The writer who didn't sign is right twice: the congregation didn't join singing the chorale, and the Bach section is covered in Bach cantata and could be shortened here. Talking about myths: in BWV 172 Bach himself marked to repeat the opening chorus after the chorale, that was in 1714 when he was young. (DYK 7 April 2010) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It is problematic that this article does not mention the fact that Bach and his German contemporaries and predecessors did not normally call their church pieces cantatas. The term was used in Italy for secular vocal pieces and was applied as a catchall category in the latter half of the 19th century to German baroque sacred vocal pieces that were typically "geistliche Konzerte" (pl. or "geistliches Konzert (sing.)) by their composers. Any good article on the topic, such as the one at Grove Music Online, will mention that calling these works cantatas is a convenient convention, but not what baroque German composers called them. --HenryPurcell (talk) 13:26, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
- Go ahead, add that, you can find some on Bach cantata. Bach called very view sacred solo cantatas "Cantata", others mostly "Concerto" or just the incipit. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:58, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Linked music files
The example OGG files are a little confusing. They seem to be solely instrumental, but the article goes on at great length about the vocal aspect of a cantata. --Gwern (contribs) 19:52 12 January 2010 (GMT)
== MaCarther Park --