Talk:Caramelldansen

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First header[edit]

I believe I've seen other caramell dansen spoofs on youtube as well. But the ones I saw were rather shoddy in quality so I suppose they dont really need to be pointed out.

Yes, I seen them too, but most of them are new, baddly animated, or don't have a reliable source, thats why I only posted quality work with fair amount of popularity.--Ruakuu (talk) 03:14, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Section on parodies has a heavy furry bias, it definitely doesn't reflect what was seen on 4chan or 2ch. Shii (tock) —Preceding comment was added at 23:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The actual popular ones: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm740147 (live-action), http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2201564 (IDOLMASTER, I think this started it over there...). I don't have the Youtube versions, though. MrVacBob (talk) 02:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Those were made almost at the begining at 2008, the spoof section was to mention the oldest ones created, unless they are really that old, but to appear here I will need the author and the date first posted.--Ruakuu (talk) 08:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I know that those 3 are furry based but, first of all, you as an editor know that wikipedia requires strong references for the articles, and proof about what its said here so, those 3 are the oldest I could find and with fair quality, the author names are there and checked the post date, I didn’t just put them there because they where all furry. I have browsed a lot and most of the others I saw were fairly new, or badly animated.
About 4chan and 2chan, I looked there too before posting this article, and found no sustamtial reference they rotate all the files posted there, so there’s no way to proof anything, also most of those files are not uploaded by their original authors.
I saw what you put in the changelog about not having proof of the second version(Popotan Dance 2), well it’s the oldest I could find after the first one, and you shouldn't have deleted it unless you have proof that its incorrect. If someone has found a version older than that, and has reference that probes it, hes/she's welcome to put it in the article.
What I want to say is, if you think you can add something usefull go ahead, but with good reference, author name and date created. Its has to be as old as the others(mid-June 2007), and proof that they are popular enough. I have modefied a few of the content and added more reference so it doesn't show that I'm going to one side of the other so it will show more neutral. Im removing the NPOV tag, because Im not closed to put more references, but I will like to maintain the quality of the article so I will only allow really documented reference.--Ruakuu (talk) 08:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
One thing that seems to be missing is any real reference to "Speedycake" (a Japanese group or person) as the source of the "Speedycake Remix" version of the song, which is the version that was combined with the Popotan-based animation to produce the initial meme.PCFerret (talk) 16:29, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The problem with this logic is that there are videos on Youtube from September 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5UXMc4bbsY) where there are two Filipino girls doing "The Carmell Dance" (sic) to the Popotan animation. So we can say 100% for certain beyond any doubt whatsoever that any other site that does not precede that date cannot be the source of the meme. The earliest known example of the flash animation isolated from the underlying anime is in June 2005 not on 4can but on the Hongfire file sharing site, which makes much more sense than 4chan since Hongfire is focused on anime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.131.78.240 (talk) 05:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Popotan[edit]

Anyone have reliable sources for Popotan being the one that propelled the Caramelldansen dance into a meme?Jinnai (talk) 17:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

First of all, your question seems a bit confusing. Popotan animation loop was used with other songs before Caramelldansen song was added. It became the formal meme after it. The dance is in the animation loop. I don't see why it needs a reliable resource, because the article only explains the meme as it is, and doesn't go into to much detail that can't be proved.
All of the content with unreliable sources was removed long ago and depured by various editors of wikipedia.--Ruakuu (talk) 09:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Not quite. This statement:
"It was not long before parts from the introduction of the PC game were captured and posted as small GIF animations for people to use."
is clearly stating something that would be defined as original research by Wikipedian standards unless you can site a source.Jinnai (talk) 17:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh that part. I don't really see much of a problem with that, other editors including me didn't find that much relevant, because the thruth is that, the caramelldansen came from the opening of the pc game, the popotan opening of the game is here. If we are getting really strict on this well yeah, it will be hard to citate that from a reliable resource now, I haven't seen any good source till now. Still looking for it.
Meanwhile I will document those new japanese sources posted by _dk. they are really good. Im looking that this meme is more popular in japan so there is a good change that I can find good articles in japanese. --Ruakuu (talk) 18:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not trying to be an a**, but the Popotan one got cited for a very similar claim, so that's why. I'm hoping this will spur finding citable sources, even if they are foreign (though preferably not), because it also clearly gives reason for notability of Popotan.Jinnai (talk) 02:13, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Sources...in Japanese[edit]

Several media outlets in Japan that focuses on internet/music news have covered Caramelldansen. I'll post them here so people can use them to add to the article:

Hope this helps. _dk (talk) 12:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Really good. They will go really well in the history section. The articles do mention about the dance, and the compilation album thats going to be released in April, but we are still looking for sources about the animation, if you could help on finding a japanese article about Popotan and Caramelldansen relation it will be most appreciated. Thanks fot your contribution.--Ruakuu (talk) 18:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Animation: 14 frames[edit]

I was going to use the different frames from the Popotan animation for something, and I expected there to be 15 frames, like the article says... well, I copied all of them to Paint from the Microsoft GIF animator, and it turns out there are only 14. Either the line in the beginning of the article about there being 15 frames is wrong, or an image is missing in this hosted animation loop. Please excuse my being nitty-gritty, but I wanted all of the animation frames, in the case that one happened to be missing. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.216.198.143 (talk) 23:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It depends, it can be 14 or 15 frames, the version I got its 15 frames, but there isn't much change if you use only 14, its just a matter smoothness of the animation.--Ruakuu (talk) 20:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

How many frames for the Pikachu version?[edit]

The link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWadFYzwimI ; anyone have any idea how many frames it has? (Just out of curiousity) —Preceding unsigned comment added by James chen0 (talkcontribs) 02:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Not completly sure because I haven't examine the animation, but it looks way more elaborated, since it's 2.54 minutes long, if it was 12fps it will be at least 2088 frames, and if it was at 24fps that will be 4176 frames, thats my estimate.--Ruakuu (talk) 20:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Flash appearance date[edit]

I made the mix early 2006... How could it appear before then? - speedycake —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.101.118 (talk) 15:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Great, can you tell us your story about it :) --Ruakuu (talk) 17:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Misspelled?[edit]

The current intro reads: "Caramelldansen (misspelled Swedish for The Caramel Dance)".

This must clearly be wrong, at least there is no evidence or sources they're actually singing about caramel. Without delving too deep into this, I'm quite certain it's called Caramelldansen after the band's name, Caramell.

I've changed it to "Caramelldansen (Swedish for The Caramell Dance)"

Lyrics can be found here

80.202.213.133 (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually I think that also, "Let's do the caramell dance" goes to the band not a caramel I think I will change that --Ruakuu (talk) 15:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Wrongly credited[edit]

The 'speedycake mix' wasn't made by MySpace user Speedycakemix, as the article previously said. It was probably made by the same Anonymous 4chan user that made the flash loop. 130.89.168.181 (talk) 10:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it's from the "Speedy Mixes" release of Supergott (see article).--SeizureDog (talk) 15:45, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the speedycake remix again, it looks like it's just the original song at 120% of the original speed. 130.89.168.181 (talk) 16:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Someone beat me to this, huh... it's 118% sped up, as I explain in my post below. ZtObOr 02:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I have investigated and contacted Speedycake and have confirmed his identity, he did in fact release that sped up version, I have the full story in on of the external links, I also contacted Caramell directly and confirmed that the Speedy Version of Supergott is not an official Caramell release, is a fan made CD. The official one comes from Japan and its called Umauma Speed, which I have already included in this article.--Ruakuu (talk) 19:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

A (possibly useless?) statistic[edit]

The song was actually sped up 1.2 times from the original. (It only says, "sped up", so I decided to give the exact speed/pitch speed-up ratio.) I know this because I got the original version and tried speeding it up 1.3x. It was too fast, so I reduced it to 1.2 and pitch-shifted it to (1.2x Hz) as well, and it sounded exactly like the speedycake remix. Is this little statistic worthy of being put on the page? ZtObOr 13:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

EDIT: Alright, screw that, its speed was changed so that the pitch would be exactly 3 semitones higher, which is 1.18921x. I fail... ZtObOr 02:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Well correct, it wasn't actually a remix, but a speed up version of the original song, but what we are trying to find out is who did it. --32.97.110.142 (talk) 17:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Caramelldansen Around the World?[edit]

Does that belong there? It was created last month and not in 2007 like someone else stated. The Great Luffy (talk) 21:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The date of the video doesn't matter, I'm using it here to show that the meme is well known around the world--Ruakuu (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Need help for japanese translation[edit]

Can anyone help me translate this video? Caramelldansen Documental (Japanese)

I want to add subtitles to that. --Ruakuu (talk) 19:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Removing Original Research Tag[edit]

I don't see why the original research tag should still be in this article, since it has enough citation and verifiable reference now.--Ruakuu (talk) 02:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

The original research refers to Popotan making it popular. The article Popotan was given a similar tag.
I posted a cn tag for the paragraph in question as it refers to exactly the same situation that the article I refer to was cited for.Jinnai (talk) 20:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

there's still not enough info about the internet phenomenon.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:41, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

About the meaning of the word "uma" (ウマ)[edit]

"(In this case, "ウマ" is "(゜д゜)ウマー" . This word doesn't mean "horse".)" I removed it because its completly wrong. "(゜д゜)" is one of those japanese smilies used whit some names. Remember that ua(Uma)(ウマ) is missheard for many things, and one of those is horse.

One proof that ua(uma) is used for horse in this meme is in the video documental I added a while ago, where a person is doing caramelldancen with a horse mask on. The other reference I found was on the recent Japanese Caramelldansen Single. In Track 5 a horse sound is part of the remix, so it clearly shows that ua(uma) is taken for horse too. I had my doughts about that line, but didn't want to remove it till I had enought arguments like now.--Ruakuu (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I know that "Uma" was first a miss hearing of "OA(reads, ua)" in the part of the song, "o-o-oa-oa-aa". It seems that some people that don't know the origin of "Uma" is wearing horse masks to make it more fun. Also, there is no proof that these people are wearing horse masks for the song, as some people use it for other purposes. Also in this vidio, it looks as the reporters just rushed into them asking these questions with the people not knowing they were going to be taken vidios of. So the mask in this vidio dose not proove that Uma in this case mean horse.--Moosius (talk) 07:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Orginal Flash Orgin[edit]

Why hello! Let me get straight to the point, it seems a lot of people are interested in where the meme/flash originated from, and I have the answer. In 2006 I created a simple loop (of the song and a gif I found at /gif/ on 4chan) and uploaded it to my site, and since I was a frequent lurker of /f/ (flash board) at the time I also uploaded it there. It received little to none response, or so I thought. And now, about 2 years later I find out it apparently got a life of its own (the meme actually flew right by me, I found out just a month ago).

To clear some things up; the music in the flash was the real song by Caramell, but increased in speed via Audacity. Also the loop was somewhat of a sarcastic remark to anime/japanease-culture in general, if anyone care. :) Sadly I don't have much to back up my statements, and I'm not really here to claim some pseudo internet fame. Just want to contribute with some inside info of an apparently half famous internet meme, and you will have to take my word for it. :)

I do have this though, my site as of July 11 2006 with link to original flash.

Hope this helps! Yours, Anonymous 83.254.64.242 (talk) 16:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I have done a little research on your site and also checked the dates of this, they seem quite accurate of what I have here and investigated, I will like to hear more from you of this and will like to contact you personally.--Ruakuu (talk) 19:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I have posted a request to help find 3rd-party sources at Talk:WPA&M.Jinnai (talk) 19:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm a little skeptical of that claim to origination of the meme myself. I looked at the website and the date seems reasonable but my problem is that there is a video on Youtube from September 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5UXMc4bbsY) with the dance on it performed by two girls. That means within only two months of the supposed date of the creation of the animation loop with the music random strangers were already posting Youtube videos of it. That's possible but it seems highly unlikely. Honestly, that site linked above looks more like a collection of flash loops someone picked up from surfing the web than it does a series of original creations. So I think the person is likely one of the few who can claim to be around at the beginning but is unlikely to be the actual creator.

Possible article for origins[edit]

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/hidematu/mobile?date=20080302&section=1204467539 - The article is referenced and appears to be for academic research published by a university. It is in Japanese though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinnai (talkcontribs) 12:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The first link is the article. The text below is a summary.Jinnai (talk) 04:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

About the cover change in this article[edit]

Ok, after some comming and going mails, talks with the wikipedia staff and the owner of this work, I finally got proof that I have permission to put this CD cover back where it should, since this is the original cover where the song was from and not the japanese release, but I didn't want to move anything till I have complete authotization. Now before anyone trys to change this, try checking on the image info and you will see, also, you can contact the wikipedia staff directly and ask them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruakuu (talkcontribs) 20:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

English[edit]

When was the English adaption made?Firio (talk) 15:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

yes, it was translated by the band, there will be plenty of examples on youtube. Sophie (Talk) 19:17, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Japan or any English-speaking region?[edit]

Where exactly did this start at? This article said it started in 4chan, which is mostly for English-speaking regions (especially the U.S.), but there is no citation added to it. I believe Japan started it, while someone from 4chan showed an example of it, then it later became global. Parrothead1983 (talk) 16:49, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

This is a common statement. The problem is that there is no evidence that it's true. Ultimately, I suspect that the precise origins will never be answered with scientific certitude. The best we can do is believe the people who were present at the time it exploded into public consciousness and that is widely acknowledged to be 4chan or Hongfire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.131.78.240 (talk) 04:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Phineas and Ferb[edit]

Anyone going to say anything about the obvious homage to this dance in the upcoming Phineas and Ferb special 'Summer Belongs To You' during the JPOP music video? http://phineasandferb.wikia.com/wiki/JPOP_(Welcome_to_Tokyo) Mew Mitsuki (talk) 21:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Dance[edit]

Now that Blizzard has placed it in their video game does the article need a section on the dance itself? My research indicates that the original flash animation was incorporated into a Para Para choreography created by the Youtube user RedKunoichi (AKA "Lex or "Lexy" RL: Alexis Molina). It's her Para Para version that serves as the basis for the Blizzard animation. Sometime in 2009 her Youtube account got banned for violations and thus the original videos got deleted but there are some older Para Para versions by other youtube users from 2008/2009 that credit "Lexy" as the inventor of the dance. Her current Youtube channel is RedKunoichiLexy. So her claim to be the inventor seems legitimate. This Para Para version of Lexy's is the one that people do in real life and at cosplay. I've never seen any other version.

What I have written here is my own research, so I didn't add anything to the wiki article. But maybe someone has a more official source.

Edited to add that as of 2013 Alexis Molina has shifted the focus of her channel to video games and renamed it Lexy Let's Play and there is only one video of her original Para Para dance routine available, she has deleted all the others from Youtube.