Talk:Carne asada fries

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Untitled[edit]

Delicious. SD has the best Mexican food in the world!

I love Mexican food, I love good fries, but good lord, that is obscene.--4.245.21.5 (talk) 03:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments but of course you know that cannot be added to the article as that is a POV statement. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

This article could use some citable references or else it will end up being deleted much as the California Burrito was deleted from the Burrito page. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Available as far North as Portland, OR[edit]

And they're not obscene, they're delicious. 216.183.109.132 (talk) 22:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a citable reference to back this statement, if so please add that to the article. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response, but would you like me to walk three blocks to the taqueria and take a picture? Or would that be original research. . . There are plenty of things happening in the world that "citable references" aren't interested in documenting. 71.236.242.147 (talk) 03:41, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately it would be WP:OR; and as much as I would believe you, it still doesn't meet the inclusion standards set forth by the WP community. Keep trying though, I am sure you'll find it. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:09, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Carne Asada Chips[edit]

Should we mention the entree Carne Asada Chips which has a connection to the entree featured in this article, or would it be better as a subheading of nachos? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the nachos page already lists all the ingredients of "carne asada chips" as additional toppings. No need to mention it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.154.213.173 (talk) 04:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Discussions about California Burrito from the Talk:Burrito page[edit]

The California Burrito[edit]

Sometime ago there was a page devoted to the California Burrito, but it has since disappeared and apparently been merged here. I find that the information given about the California burrito is a little off, so I deleted the wording of "San Diego style". If you go into any street Mexican place (Mexico Viejo, Roberto's, Karina's, Juanita's, Filiberto's, etc.) they will not know what you are talking about if you ask for a "San Diego style" burrito. A lot of the information that was on the old California Burrito page is not included here, such as that it is basically derived from Carne Asada Fries (or Super Fries) being wrapped in a tortilla. Any one as diehard about the California have more input? I am a newbie when it comes to wikipedia editing so I am tentative to alter anything dramatically. DEFmagic (talk) 01:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The original California burrito article can be found here. I'm not sure if the original editor of that page was confused or was trying to interpret the stylistic differences of regional Mexican-American cuisine or what. My understanding is that the "California burrito" is not necessarily a "San Diego style", and this is especially true outside of California. The "San Diego style" burrito isn't something you ask for by name; rather it's a description of the regional variation which could go by any name. The section in question needs to be rewritten with references, so if you can do some research using the links in the further reading section as your guide, that would help. I'm currently on wikibreak, but will try to help out as time permits. So, what is called for here is not deletion, but rather a sourced appraisal of the differences and similarities between "California" and "San Diego style". —Viriditas | Talk 01:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I must slightly disagree with your comments regarding "San Diego style" Viriditas, though I greatly appreciate your help in helping me (and others) investigate further to help in making the page more accurate. Having checked out the Fred's Mexican Cafe website, I do not think that it is reflective at all of a particular "San Diego style". First and foremost, their version of the California burrito on their menu does not even include meat which is a absolute must, secondly, they are located in the Gaslamp district which is primarily a tourist/clubbing area and can not be seen as indicative of really any tone of authentic San Diego-Mexican. A quick perusal of their website reinforces these notions to any native San Diegan. But I will continue to try and find proper sourcing, however I must dispute using Fred's as a source at all. DEFmagic (talk) 21:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Fred's has seven locations (four outside SD) and describes their food as "San Diego style". While I agree with your POV regarding them, it's definitely a source that can be supported in a number of ways, from the menu on their website to reviews in newspapers. Keep in mind, whenever a restaurant advertises their style as X, there's a good chance it probably isn't. It's the way of the world. The reason it is in the article is because it is easy to verify. Remember, verification not truth is our policy. —Viriditas | Talk 21:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Would you mind directing me to the newspaper articles that verify Fred's own claims? I didn't see them in the ref links on the article page. As I've said, I'm relatively new to wiki so I apologize if there is another area that I should have checked for the links. Thanks in advance. DEFmagic (talk) 21:40, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Sure, let me see if I can find them. I thought they were already in the article, but when I looked I didn't see anything at all. Not sure what happened. In any case, regardless of the sources, I agree with your opinion on the matter. Just because Fred's bills themselves as "San Diego style" doesn't make it so. A good reason to keep them in the article is to show variety and popularity in the style, from small taquería style, to large corporate interpretations of folk cuisine. —Viriditas | Talk 21:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Here's one about the restaurant in general: Engle, Erika (Dec. 28, 2003). "Moose's sister Fred is coming to Hawaii". The Buzz. Honolulu Star-Bulletin. Retrieved 2008-03-22.  Check date values in: |date= (help) Here's a blurb about their Mahi burrito: Jones, Rachel (Nov. 10, 2004). "Pacific Beach and Mission Beach". Best of: Beaches. San Diego CityBeat. Retrieved 2008-03-22.  Check date values in: |date= (help) Fred's Huntington Beach location seems to show up in a number of places, such as "The Guide" from the Los Angeles Times, and there's a small review of the Laguna Niguel location: Degen, Matt (Nov. 14, 2007). "Night Out in Laguna Niguel 2". Night Out. The Orange County Register. Retrieved 2008-03-22.  Check date values in: |date= (help)Viriditas | Talk 22:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I have to say, I do not see the evidence for promoting Fred's as anything of a definitive "San Diego-style", all of those articles are only copying Fred's own claims in use for reviewing the area. Any comments on the quality or nature of the food are independent of the claim of a "San Diego style" with absolutely no fact checking or investigative reporting. Of course Wikipedia is about verification, as you stated previously, but to say that it isn't about truth is to disregard what Wikipedia ought (implying a moral imperative) to be about. Just because you can find a source for something, does not make it true, nor should we endeavor to cite sources for erroneous material, specifically when the claims are patently false. Just because Carls Jr. claims it has the best burger for under 6 dollars, does not make it true, it only makes their claim to the fact verifiable. Furthermore, after having personally visited the Fred's in Downtown (Gaslamp) I can say that it is definably not in any way shape or form representative of San Diego mexican cuisine, and until a source can be verified that cites an opinion of such outside of Fred's chain's own claim I must remove it from the burrito entry. We should not add material to Wikipedia just because it is verifiable, but because it is both true and verifiable. I will not add any of my own material until I have collected further information, but as is, the information present must be cut. DEFmagic (talk) 07:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
To better clarify my argument: It is verifiable that Fred's Mexican Cafe makes the claim that their style is "San Diego style", but their claim is not in of itself verifiable. DEFmagic (talk) 08:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
That's absolutely correct, and we do not at any time attempt to verify claims on Wikipedia; What we do, is best represent a reliable source using NPOV, which may help us to approximate "truth" using various points of view to get as close as possible. If you have evidence that Fred's claim of offering "San Diego style" Mexican food is in error, then by all means add another reliable source criticizing Fred's. However, we do not remove material based on your own personal opinion, which is what you have done. Since I am not a fan of Fred's, I will not be rushing to restore the material you removed, but the statement, "Fred's Mexican Café, the Southern California, "San Diego style" Mexican restaurant chain offers a one pound "California burrito" composed of black beans, guacamole, lettuce, melted cheese, and pico de gallo, served on a plate, with the optional "wet" topping of enchilada sauce, melted cheese and sour cream" is based on reliable sources such as a the newspaper linked above, and their own menu. The statement you made above, I can say that it is definably not in any way shape or form representative of San Diego mexican cuisine is your own opinion, and while you are welcome to it, and encouraged to find sources supporting it, your opinion while important to you and possibly informative to others, is not the issue. You say that Fred's is making a false claim, but in order to even make that argument you would have to establish a baseline for authentic San Diego style Mexican food - and you have not done this. A reliable source has been provided substantiating the claim about Fred's, not about the veracity of their claim. These are two different issues, and the argument you are making can never be proven. So then we are left with the current material, which left unsourced, will be removed as well. —Viriditas | Talk 08:13, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Agreed in the sense that my personal claims do not merit much which is why they remain on the talk page, but I must say that the burden of proof does not lie with me when asserting that Fred's represents a true type of San Diego style food. It lies with third party verification of such claims, which cannot be sustained via Fred's own claims. This, I believe would fall under "bias" in the article you cite concerning NPOV. Fred's is obviously biased in it's claim, so that until a claim can be made outside of it's own (something which none of the articles do as they only in turn recite Fred's own claim) it cannot be included. I do not intend to insult or degrade your additions to the wikipedia knowledge base Viriditas as I know you only have the site's best interests at heart, but I defend this point out of my own endeavor for the burrito page, specifically concerning my home region's nature, to be as factual as possible. DEFmagic (talk) 08:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Unless Fred's particular claim is in dispute as published in a RS, you cannot claim a dispute based on your own personal opinion. If you wish to provide sources, I would be happy to examine them, otherwise your argument isn't supported. You say that Fred is "obviously biased" but we still have no evidence for this bias. The Fred's material may find itself back into the article when there is more supporting evidence. Now tell me, since you claim to live in San Diego, what is your favorite taquería and what sources can you offer for the San Diego style burrito? You are of course, welcome to write a sourced section on this topic. —Viriditas | Talk 08:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Isn't it bias enough that they are making the claim themselves about themselves? I believe that any company's own rhetoric about itself must be considered biased. But you are correct in asking that I provide source material for an alternative argument, for that I would submit for your own review: [1] followed with Santana's own claim that they are the home of the California Burrito on their website [santanas.com]. I can follow up with such blogs as [2]. How can one go about proving the legitimacy of the de facto nature of the California Burrito, or even the style that San Diego represents (which I would characterize as pay-as-you-play, in that you order whatever ingredients you want to be put into a burrito within a range of beans, cheese, carne asada, fries, potatos, sour cream, guacamole, salsa fresca ((also called pico de gallo, I suppose)), carnitas, chicken, or lettuce, or just add them on to one of the preexisting staple burrito choices)? If I were to interview management at Santana's and a sampling of the populous, where would I need to publish for it to be verifiable by Wikipedia? And since you asked, and I am quite apt to respond, I live in an area known as Linda Vista in San Diego, and my usual haunts are either Valencia's Cotijixan or Nico's in my area, but I must also pay my respects to Mexico Viejo and Filibertos located in Encinitas. Thanks for your help. DEFmagic (talk) 08:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
We are not in a position to eliminate self-descriptions due to bias. We are only representing Fred's using RS; It could be bias if we deliberately removed criticism of Fred's, or neglected to include other restaurants who claimed to offer San Diego style. We can only use blogs if they are written by notable authors on the topic; If you are interested in how we use sources, you may also want to read the essay, WP:EVALUATE and follow some of the links for further reading. An interview would work for Wikinews, and you may be interested in doing that, but it's not clear if we could provide anything more than a link to it. You could also try to publish an article in the Los Angeles Times or a San Diego-based newspaper. The San Francisco Chronicle might actually publish your article if you compared the San Diego style to San Francisco, and engaged in the obligatory Northern vs. Southern California rivalry. The links to Peter Fox in the further reading section may give you some more pointers. I will look for some sources on the restaurants you have mentioned, and I hope you do the same. But remember, we are not in the business of "proving the legitimacy" of this or anything else. The reason I did not restore the Fred's material was because upon further examination, it had very little to do with burritos. —Viriditas | Talk 09:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

california burrito[edit]

at the mom and pop taco shops they come with cream cheese. Sickero (talk) 03:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Unless you mean "sour cream" this is a patently false interpretation of the California burrito (which is not "San Diego-style" necessarily, as I mentioned above. I am doing some research, albeit slowly, so I can make some additions to the California Burrito information. Santana's on Morena Blvd in San Diego claims to be the progenitor of the type, and I live not too far from there so I was going to go and see if I could get some answers.) I have never in all my time eating burritos at the many venues in and around San Diego ever heard of "cream cheese" being added to any burrito for any reason. DEFmagic (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Just a hunch, but the editor may be thinking of a Mexican form of "sour cream"; this seems very likely. But my understanding is that queso de crema is not sour cream. Perhaps that is what he means? —Viriditas | Talk 21:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your edits, but I've reverted your recent changes. You removed a reference to Fred's restaurant as "non-notable" and added an unreferenced addition to "cream cheese". Fred's appears to bill itself as "San-Diego style" Mexican food, and offers the California burrito on their menu; this can be verified on their website and is one example of the dish in question. As for notability, they have seven locations and are owned by the Moose Restaurant Group [3] which is a chain of restaurants notable in California and Hawaii. Any further additions you add will be aided with the name of the restaurant in question and the ability to verify the information. Merely adding "cream cheese" doesn't give editors the ability to track down the information. —Viriditas | Talk 04:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

i think there really needs to be some note regarding the "california burrito" as ordered in san diego. it's a menu item that is ordered by the thousands daily - much more than any "california burrito" on offer by fred's mexican cafe. it's a significant dish - i see pictures of a cleveland baked burrito and a taipei-style burrito, both of which i'm sure are less prominent than the san diego/southern california "california burrito" (the basics of which, by the way, are carne asada,potatoes (fried or otherwise), and cheese - the sauce varies from branch to branch, be it guacamole, sour cream, or pico de gallo. does fred's mexican cafe sell a false version of it? sure. just as i'm sure some restaurants sell abominations that they call a "san francisco burrito." therefore should we remove the san francisco burrito, which personally i had never heard of, section? as for notability, santana's serves this style. though atm their website is under construction. still, i assure you that their menu item represents the california burrito style. http://www.santanas.com/ more locations than fred's...and santana's is ENTIRELY in the san diego area. here's another example http://www.robertos.us/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=81 and another: http://www.sombreromex.com/menu.shtml so, i'm sorry, but fred's is not truly notable in this case. they are just an aberration. ---ha, so now that i read this page, basically the reason there is no entry for the california burrito is that fred's mexican cafe is trying to restrict the use of the name. i can't belive that this is being allowed on wikipedia.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.147.247.11 (talk) 16:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Nope, that's not the reason. The reason is that the content cannot be sourced in reliable secondary sources. It's fine to describe it using primary web links, but others disagree, so it was removed. Viriditas (talk) 03:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Carne asada fries[edit]

Perhaps California Burrito should be redirected to the Carne Asada Fries page and created as a subsection on that page, since both are very similar in concept and creation. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 15:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

ok[edit]

Im kinda new but i understand —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sickero (talkcontribs) 04:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

No problema. I think that your addition should be added, but we need more information. For example, can you find out what kind of queso is used in these burritos? My understanding is that there are many different varieties of Mexican cheese. Also, if this style is popular, we should be able to trace it to a particular taqueria. Can you name any? —Viriditas | Talk 04:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Would this be sufficient reference in regards to the difference between a San Francisco style burrito and a San Diego style burrito? San Diego Union Tribune --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

We discussed this already. See the result below in the thread named, "Relevance". Search for "Crawford". The answer is "maybe, it depends". I am willing to discuss this with you if you like. Viriditas (talk) 09:45, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Help me out here, on the Nacho page some of the cited sources used were directly from commercial pages, thus showing the existance of the item or its variants. If that is the scrutiny of sources there, shouldn't that be the same level of scrutiny used here? And if that is the case, shouldn't we include sources such as the Santana's Mexican Grill webpage as relevent cited sources which to establish a subsection regarding the "California Burrito"? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

May have been mentioned already, but I just want to point out that the term California Burrito is common in Tucson Az and has the same meaning. ike9898 (talk) 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Apparently, our editing wars, maybe newsworthy.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 06:45, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

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