|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cassandra article.|
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- 1 Untitled
- 2 Modern usage
- 3 more examples of use in other fields
- 4 Nonsequitur
- 5 "Symmetrical contrast"
- 6 Curse
- 7 Reality of Cassandra
- 8 In the Movies
- 9 Suggestions
- 10 Adam? Eric? Dean?
- 11 No Man's Land
- 12 Something wrong with a template
- 13 Graves
- 14 Lack of sources
- 15 Julianbce edits
- 16 Modern adaptations tagging
- 17 Wolfe
- 18 Who was the most beautiful woman in the world?
- 19 Overhauling the article
- 20 Additional items needing source
A tragic figure, yes, but some context would be nice ! --Anders Törlind
- well really Apollo liked Cassandra, apollo asked cassandr to kiss him and she would get the gift of seeing the future and that went down hill from there —Preceding semi-signed comment added by "~*NiCoLe*~" 18.104.22.168 (talk) 21:07, 14 April 2008
Most of the items here reference people who appear to only be mentioned in this entry. Do I sense self-promotion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
- Here's a usage that is well-confirmed: Cassandra, the database management system. Perhaps an explanation of why the folks chose the name, if interesting. 09:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk)
- This is yet another section in a mythology article that threatens to turn the article into just a big long list of characters and episode synopses from TV shows. This is getting old. Andy Christ (talk) 06:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
well not everything here is true but alot of it is right and all of this is very interesting well that i thought but weird at the same time well really Apollo liked Cassandra, apollo asked cassandr to kiss him and she would get the gift of seeing the future and that went down hill from there ~*NiCoLe*~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- Seems that "Modern Usage" is the new name for the now discredited trivia section - ie a dumping ground for a mass of irrelevant cruft. Millions of people have said things which were not believed but turned out to be true. That doesn't mean they are relevant to this article. And yes, there is an awful lot of promotion of nonentities here. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 12:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- Ug, modern usage. If we listed every time such a famous character was referenced or alluded to, we'd have several hundred thousand words of such descriptions. It should just say 'Cassandra's name is frequently invoked in relation to prophecy, especially prophecy that isn't believed, in modern fiction' and trim most of this cruft. Maybe I'll go and just do that. --2602:30A:2EA0:D9F0:EC0D:DDBF:D12C:5D69 (talk) 21:12, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
"Occasionally people with various psychic (or "psi") abilities use this term" This presumes the existence of people with psychic abilities, which is a moot point. Should it be rephrased to be impartial on this issue, or linked to the article on clairvoyance? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
could someone add the red dwarf episode where there is a computer ai who has the physical form of a female human with the name cassandra. she also can tell the future and foresees her death at the hand of lister, who tries to avoid fulfilling this prophecy. of course he still kills destroys/cassandra through a rube goldberg like series of events. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 08:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
more examples of use in other fields
i added another use i just stumbled on in an article by renowned historian Dr.Patrick Finney. mpearse 11:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The article states that "Upon Agamemnon and Cassandra's arrival in Mycenae, Clytemnestra asked her husband to walk across a purple carpet; he initially refused then gave in and entered, not believing Cassandra's warnings." Although it previously mentioned that she predicted Ag's death, it was simply a cursory mention devoid of detail. It never previously mentioned anything about a purple carpet being involved. This therfore comes off as a nonsequitur. I am pointing this out for correction rather than correcting it myself because I don't know if she warned him not to walk on a purple carpet, to avoid purple, to not do what his wife asked, to avoid carpets in Mycenae, or any number of other possibilities. Someone please fix this. -22.214.171.124 13:52, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
- Weren't all of Cassandra's warnings ones of doom and destruction? In that sense, the use in the Grauniad would be correct, though shallow.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 14:19, 25 January 2006
I deleted "Thus, a man whose prophecies are believed but do not come about stands in symmetrical contrast to a woman whose prophecies are disbelieved but come true", as it has a clear sexist (in this case, anti-male) subcontext, whether intentional or not. Furthermore, this "symmetry" can not exist between such distinct, independent traditions as ancient greek and judean mythology, as they are not comparable traditions. It is also a POV, which adds nothing informative to the subject.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:16, 5 February 2006
- Israel and Greece are both in the Eastern Mediterranean, which is far from being an impenetrable ocean. The Greek alphabet is derived from the Phoenician alphabet. There is no reason why the traditions could not have cross-fertilized. But even if Greece and Israel were thousands of miles apart or on different planets, it is most interesting that Jonah and Cassandra are in such structurally symmetric positions. Both of them, moreover, ended up very unhappy - Jonah as distressed by the non-fulfillment of his prophecy of doom as Cassandra was by the fulfillment of hers. You make a very good point, Anonymous, by bringing up the matter of gender. Perhaps if Cassandra had been a man she would have been believed. Perhaps if Jonah had been a woman he would not have been believed. Then Troy would have survived, but Niniveh would not. Das Baz 15:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oh yes, and it is an egregious absurdity to say that any contrast of public reactions to male and female pronouncements, implicit or explicit, intentional or not, is "sexist." Suppose someone said that a Black Prophet (like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.) was disbelieved while a White Prophet was believed - would this be "racist"?Das Baz 15:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
A Tale of Two Cities
Troy and Niniveh are both in the Near Eastern cultural area, and only a few hundred miles apart from each other. Many people travelled between the two cities, as they were both major centers of trade and commerce. Das Baz 16:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I really think that the caveat of the gods that she would not believed should be mentioned in the opening. That's perhaps the single most important thing about the Cassandra myth. --DanielCD 02:58, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Reality of Cassandra
"Much of Homer's story of Troy was real as proven by Heinrich Schliemann that discovered the city. We know that there was a Troy that was destroyed in war, right in the place that Homer said. There was also a King that likely had daughters. The earliest known version of the story did not say Cassandra had the power to tell the future. Beyond that, little is known for sure."
This is a highly dubious claim to make. A city most likely Ilium was discovered along the coast of Turkey by Schliemann, yes. However, to say that "much of Homer's story" was proven by Schliemann is a very shoddy assertion (even while excluding his notoriously destructive and careless excavation techniques). How is the real Troy similar to Homer's descriptions? How do you know there was a king? Was there only one king the entire time? When did he rule? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs) .
- I removed that section, as it isn't referenced anyway, and I agree it serves little purpose and gives no reliable information. --DanielCD 14:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
In the Movies
- Yes, shouldn't there be some reference to this film in the article? I'm sure the naming of the bridge in the film is a reference to the fact that they know they are going to their doom, but they are powerless to stop it. VenomousConcept (talk) 15:00, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Recommend the first reference to Agamemnon become a hyperlink to relevant article.
I haven't edited Wikipedia myself, but I'd like to suggest in this article, a reference be made to the Zathras character in the Sci-Fi TV series Babylon 5. Zathras is definitely the Cassandra of B5, predicting things no one understands or believes. "Zathras warn, but no one listens to poor Zathras. That is OK, Zathras is used to it." Zathras has his own wiki article. -Lepton68 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lepton68 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
- Cassandra as the prototype of unheeded seers is noted: a list of unheeded seers could become excruciatingly jejune.--Wetman (talk) 18:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Adam? Eric? Dean?
Has somebody been playing with this page? Peter Delmonte 01:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, and I've reverted it. --Bruce1ee 05:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
No Man's Land
Um...what is this? Is there an actual weapon named Cassandra? As far as I know, the only Cassandra is that of Cassandra Cain, who hsa the gift of being able to read body language at the cost of her speaking ability. In any case...it's one of probably hundreds of thousands of references to Cassandra. It doesn't belong in this article. hbdragon88 (talk) 00:55, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Something wrong with a template
The article gives "she who entangles men" as an etymology presented by Robert Graves. Now even if this was referenced (it isn't, presumably The Greek Myths?) it would be worthless, as Graves' essentially used the Greek myths as a quarry to construct his own myth of a Triple Goddess, he didn't study them on their own terms. --dab (𒁳) 15:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Lack of sources
1. "In an alternative version, she spent a night at Apollo's temple"
Who wrote this version?
2. "In some versions of the myth, this is symbolized by the god spitting into her mouth; in other Greek versions, this act was sufficient to remove the gift so recently given by Apollo, but Cassandra's case varies."
What are the sources of these?
3. "Some sources mention that Cassandra and Agamemnon had twin boys, Teledamus and Pelops, both of whom were killed by Aegisthus."
What sources are these?
Your edits don't seem to make logical sense. There are serious grammatical problems which make them unintelligible. They are also unreferenced, and appear to by original research. They also appear to be fancruft in the sense that they are about Disney, not about Cassandra. The material is not in itself notable. You have also reverted 5 times in a short period in an attempt to force your material into the article. This should be discussed here before there is any further edit warring. SmashTheState (talk) 07:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Modern adaptations tagging
I've tagged quite a number of the "Modern Adaptations" with citation needed templates. Unless reliable sources are presented which verify that these are based on the Cassandra myth, they must be removed. We cannot ourselves interpret which "retellings" are related to Cassandra and which are not; doing so would be original research. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- I think the connection of new stories to old stories is of interest. Tagging of original research is appropriate and desirable, but I don't think removal is the right action if the modern adaptation has very similar themes or character/place names that it must have been inspired by the original. Having said that, I think the statement "The motion picture Contact based upon Carl Sagan's novel borrows the myth with Jodie Foster playing the Cassandra figure and Matthew McConaughey as the Apollo figure" should be removed promptly, unless a reliable source is presented, because the well known movie Contact has zero similarity to the Cassandra myth. I cannot comment on the others because I am not familiar with them.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2012
I read the Christa Wolf story about ten years ago. I don't remember it being told at the moment of Cassandra'a death.
Who was the most beautiful woman in the world?
The history section has: "... she was depicted to be the second most beautiful woman in the world with her beauty even compared to that of Aphrodite and Helen of Troy." So, who was the most beautiful? Helen? If so, the sentence could be better worded: "... she was depicted to be second in beauty only to Helen of Troy, and even compared to the goddess Aphrodite."--ML5 (talk) 13:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Overhauling the article
Cassandra was one of my favorite subjects back in ye olde college days, and I'd like to improve this article. After watching the article for some time, I think a source-by-source approach might be best.
Cassandra was an idiot they say but she was cursed by apllo The curs was that know one would ever belive her.
But wen she fel asleep in a tempel snakes wispered in her eras And that was alowing her To hear the future — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 14:25, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Additional items needing source
This from the article is very interesting:
Snakes as a source of knowledge is a recurring theme in Greek mythology, although sometimes the snake brings understanding of the language of animals rather than an ability to know the future.
The article would benefit from a source or sources for the several statements there. I think many readers would be interested in pursuing the ideas further by secondary sources outside Wikipedia.