Talk:Catalonia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Catalan-speaking countries (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Catalan-speaking countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history, languages, and cultures of Catalan-speaking countries on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality scale.
 
WikiProject Spain (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Economy[edit]

So, I've read the economy part of the article and see how it is compared to Basque Country and Madrid. Isn't this misgiving the reader somewhat? I believe that Madrid and Basque Country's economical state should be stated, don't you think? The Basque Country pays no taxes to the Spanish state and Madrid is the capital. Yes, Madrid is more debatable, but consider how all trains must go through Madrid, and many enterprises have put their headquarters in Madrid. In addition, as the capital, it gains a considerable amount of the taxes others pay while Catalonia doesn't gain money but rather loses it with taxes. We should at least mention these details, even in the brief description, so people don't get the wrong idea.

Religion[edit]

Christianity[edit]

Roman Catholicism[edit]

Protestantism[edit]

Eastern Orthodoxy[edit]

Judaism[edit]

Islam[edit]

Hinduism[edit]

Location map[edit]

Map of Catalonia

I have learned from the Help desk that there is a disagreement about what location map to use for this article. I understand that this argument is motivated by politics, and the issue of whether Catalonia is "part of Spain". I am not interested in that argument, and I don't know or care which side the participants in the argument are on. The purpose of a location map is to help people who don't already know, to understand out where it is. I have restored the map which I believe does this more effectively. Maproom (talk) 22:05, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Catalonia is part of Spain and Europe, the map doesn't say it is not Lliure albir (talk) 22:36, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
That's absurd, Lliure albir. Green map is typical of EU countries, not of regions. It's too big to locate a single region on the continenT. The other regions of Spain used the same red map. I pray end war editions. Satesclop 22:46, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
I oppose Satesclop and I agree with Lliure albir, the map doesn't indicate Catalonia is not part of Spain since Spain is highlighted. — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 23:08, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Maproom, you're not being neutral, the map was added in July 2015 by certain user [1] and no one has opposed it, only Satesclop. Could you explain why the map you restored is better? IMO it is a worse map, because it doesn't show the position of Catalonia within Europe and the world, and because the current political situation of Catalonia and Spain is somewhat special — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 00:25, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
So, that means that we can eliminate the maps of Flanders and Scotland from their respective infoboxes because they show the situation inside Europe? Why Scotland can and Catalonia not? --Jacobí (talk) 01:34, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I agree with Jacobí. If Catalonia can't use this type of map, no other polities in Europe should. BlueBirdo (talk) 17:08, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
I prefer the map I restored because I believe that most readers will find it more helpful in showing the position and extent of Catalonia. I am not concerned about the political status of Catalonia, this is a location map. I can see that it might be improved: "in Spain" could be deleted from the caption, the inset showing the Canaries would be better removed, and the colouring (white for Spain, ginger for France, Andorra and Portugal) could all be made white. I could do that myself if it would help. Maproom (talk) 08:37, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
I prefer the green map (above), for me it's more helpful than the current one. I think most people are more familiar with the shape of Europe than with Spain. BlueBirdo (talk) 17:02, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
So, can we restore the green map or not? meanwhile, I restore the original map from July, as a kind of consensus, because it shows Catalonia in Europe but, at the same time, without the European Union and with the borders of the other autonomous communities of Spain, showing clearly Catalonia as a part of Spain. Are you agree? --Jacobí (talk) 13:28, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
I really dislike that green map, and all such maps with the inset in the top left overlying Greenland. The inset is intended to help the reader locate Europe, within a tiny world map that is itself made hard to understand by the way it abuts Greenland and other islands. I think that the number of readers who can understand the inset, and would not otherwise be able to locate Europe on a map of the world, must be 0. If the consensus is in favour of using that map, I can produce a modified version of it with the northern 30% trimmed off. Maproom (talk) 12:52, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Most of us agreed to use the green map with Europe, so I think it's good Jacobí restored it. I would also request to use the same type of map for the Balearics and Valencia, as we have many visitors from Europe and all over the world. By doing this our visitors could contrast their original location with ours and would make them feel more welcome :) — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 13:04, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
I know I'm a bit late to this, but I'd also like to add my opinion and concur with the consensus. I've reverted the map several times now, and believe that the green map is most suitable, as it shows Catalunya's position not just in the Iberian Peninsula, but also in Europe as a whole. I also concur that this follows precedent with other areas that are in Catalunya's current political situation, and I believe that this better represents the situation on the ground. I know that this may be distasteful for spanish nationalists, but it does best convey the information about the State. You know, I leave my flat in the morning and I see the Estelada everywhere, the only time I ever see the spanish flag is on official buildings, below the Senyera. I go to the cafe, and am greeted with "Bon Dia," not "Bueños." If someone says "Aquí en España...," the first response is, "Catalunya no es Espanya." This is the reality, so why pettifog it? (Alcibiades979 (talk) 09:23, 14 May 2016 (UTC))
Easy: because things are what they are and not what we wish they would be. Catalonia is STILL part of Spain, and it should be reflected as such (within the Spanish map) in what pretends to be an encyclopedia. Facts; that easy. And it is a fact that Catalonia TODAY is part of Spain. Let's not rewrite history and geography on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not the place for that. I am sick of Spanish and Catalan nationalists fighting here... PS: I doubt anyone would say "Bueños" instead of "buenos".--Karljoos (talk) 00:07, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
I take issue with the map that presents Catalonia as if it were a part of the EU - it is not, and can't be, because it's not a proper country. It is a part of Spain, a country that already is a part of the EU. All other autonomous community's pages on WP have the yellow-red type of map, and there's no valid reason not to use it here. Reverted. WP is not a place for propaganda. Mr KEBAB (talk) 20:10, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
The current map doesn't show Catalonia is not in Spain or independent (yet). Moreover Catalonia is not the only territory in Spain and Europe with a green map (see the Basque Country and Scotland)... The fact that Catalonia is politically disconnecting from a stubborn country like Spain (see the latest news concerning this issue) shows the reality and not a dream like the previous user said. — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 21:05, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
The point is that because of that map, it can be easily interpreted to be an "EU country" when, in fact, it's not even a country to begin with. Wishes of the people of Catalonia are irrelevant in this case, it's the current state of affairs that matters (which is Catalonia = Spain). The same applies to Basque Country. Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:16, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
It's a "nation" within another nation, the same as Scotland (which also has a green map). Spain and Catalonia are not the same thing, although the latest is (still) a constituent part of the former. The same can't apply to the Basque Country because it has a separate consensus and it has different agreements with the Spanish state. — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 21:43, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
We're not talking nations here. You misunderstood me. Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:57, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
And could we actually stop pretending that there's a consensus to use the zoomed-out map? There clearly isn't! Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
The map is fine as is. It shows that Catalunya is currently a part of Spain. It also shows where the heck Catalunya is in Europe. This really seems like a non-issue. It's been agreed upon, if you disagree then you're free to go about the requisite process to change that. Until such a time I will report vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alcibiades979 (talkcontribs) 22:51, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

@Alcibiades979: Wasting space on two maps is an issue. Can you tell me what's actually been 'agreed upon'? I see no real consensus in this discussion. Mr KEBAB (talk) 13:49, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

I request to improve the infobox and use the same type than Quebec or Scotland. — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 01:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

This autonomous community is not Scotland or Quebec, is one more region of Spain. The rest of communities have the same type of map. Please, you stop the vandalism. Satesclop 04:15, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Agree with Satesclop.--Karljoos (talk) 14:32, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Catalonia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 08:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 10 May 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Speedy closed as unfounded (NAC). No such user (talk) 09:08, 11 May 2016 (UTC)



CataloniaCatalunya – "Catalonia" violates WP article name policy on foreign names. It is not a majority usage. (Only in the U.K.) It is not how most people would look for the topic. We don't use "Saragossa" for the same reason. deisenbe (talk) 14:00, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

  • Oppose. That's silly. It's Catalonia in English. Sources are so overwhelming that I'm not going to waste (more) time on this. — Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 14:32, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Snow close - User has not given a valid reason which supports the proposal. WP:Commonname, would support 'Catalonia'. -- AxG /  10 years of editing 17:24, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose - proposal is nonsense, current title is undoubtedly common name in English.--Staberinde (talk) 20:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose and snow close. This proposal was made under the assumption that "Catalunya" was the common name outside the UK, which does not appear to be the case.  ONR  (talk)  23:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Uhhh...no. —  AjaxSmack  01:42, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Heck, even the Generalitat calls itself the "Government of Catalonia" in English. acomas (talk) 04:31, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Original research[edit]

There is plenty of it. Remember, we have to use WP:Secondary sources. Thanks. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Respeto al Reino de España[edit]

Wikipedia surgió como una enciclopedia libre que tenía como único objetivo ofrecer información a los usuarios de forma gratuita. No podemos consentir que esta página, la de una Comunidad Autónoma de España, se convierta en un campo de batalla político en el que gestos como poner en primer plano un mapa de Cataluña EQUIPARÁNDOLA A OTRAS NACIONES DE EUROPA o como eliminar referencias al país al que pertenece (España). Dejemos de crear polémica y controversia con estos temas y editemos de forma más responsable. --Cd tenerife (talk) 15:43, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Independence[edit]

So currently Junts pel Si controls the Generalitat, and they are pro-independence, and are beginning the creation of Catalunya as an independent entity. Would anyone object if I were to begin writing a section on Catalunya's road to independence? Regardless of your opinion on it, or on the constitution of Spain, that this is happening is indisputable. (2607:F470:6:5002:913C:E430:DB87:4DA6 (talk) 16:27, 1 September 2016 (UTC))

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Catalonia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:31, 11 September 2016 (UTC)