Talk:Cephalonia Prefecture

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Requested move 2010[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move DrKiernan (talk) 13:49, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Kefallinia PrefectureKefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture — This is the proper name of an administrative entity in Greece, as shown by its website.[1] The name was changed without any discussion.[2]Damac (talk) 18:26, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

There is no proper method for transliteration of modern Greek; whether there is one for ancient Greek is debateable. The page linked to uses both Κεφαλονιά and Κεφαλληία, the latter would be systematically transliterated to the presnt title; it is not our business to decide between Katharevsa and Demotic; I would recommend spelling Cephalonia as Cephalonia, myself. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Support The main issue here is the inclusion of Ithaca in the prefecture's title, not the spelling of Kefalonia. However, on that issue, you will find that the general consensus on Wikipedia as well as in much of the English-language media is that the island is generally rendered as Kefalonia.--Damac (talk) 21:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

This is the nominator's own support.
Please let me explain. The subject of this article name change is the prefecture and not the island of Kefalonia. Kefalonia (island) already has its own article. When, some years ago, I noticed that there was no seperate for the prefecture, I created one, entitled Kefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture. Up to that point, there was confusion whether the information on population, size, etc., contained on the Kefalonia (island) page referred to the island or the prefecture. Indeed, if I recall correctly, the island article claimed that the entity was also a prefecture.
The problem with the Kefallinia Prefecture title is that it is not immediately clear that this is not just the island of Kefalonia. Using the proper title makes it clear that what is being referred to. Comparing this relatively small and internationally insignificant administrative unit with the United Kingdom is hardly appropriate.
As regards the spelling of Kefalonia, the existence of articles on Kefalonia, and the categories on Category:Cities, towns and villages in the Kefalonia and Ithaka Prefecture (please look at some of the entries there) and Category:People from Kefalonia suggest some measure of consensus regarding that island's spelling.
Google searches produce the following hits: Kefalonia - 1,500,000 hits, Cephalonia - 181,000 hits, Kefallinia - 141,000 hits, Cephallenia - 47,000 hits, Cephallonia - 19,300 hits.
If you propose that Wikipedia change all references to the island of K. to Cephalonia, then I suggest you make the relevant request and argue your case there. In the meantime, please focus on how we should name the article referring to this particular multi-island prefecture.--Damac (talk) 20:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Support: there is no reason to ignore the official name. --TakenakaN (talk) 01:14, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there is; see WP:Official names for more. But in this case, both names are official - and neither is English. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
That policy does not dictates what you claims it does. The proposed name is correct and complete, you gave no good reason to reject it. --TakenakaN (talk) 10:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Let me see: I gave the following:
Takenaka may not consider these good reasons, but our policies do.
I expect you to change Trinidad and Tobago to Trinidad alone, then. --TakenakaN (talk) 12:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Why? Trinidad and Tobago is used in English, and it disambiguates the country from the island, as Prefecture disambiguates the administrative division from the isalnd. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Very strongly oppose. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:36, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Support including Ithaca in the title for precision. No opinion on the spelling of either island. Ucucha 11:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kallikratis programme[edit]

It seems no-one has made a note that starting 1/1/11 the municipalities of Kefalonia have all merged into one (the Municipality of Kefalonia), it's "seat" being Argostoli, the former municipality and capital of the prefecture. The prefecture still does exist, but no longer includes the island of Ithaki (if I am not mistaken: changes such as this were made under the new "Kallikratis" programme in replacement of the former "Kapodistrias", which are rulings as to the organization of prefectures, municipalities and communities in Greece. As these changes are recent, there is confusion even among Greeks as to what the new structure is. Perhaps an editor experienced in Greek local self-government administration would be the right person to update the article)--Saintfevrier (talk) 08:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move to Kefalonia Prefecture as the result of the consensus. The article on the island is now Cephalonia, and I suggest this be revisited immediately to determine if this affects the name of the prefecture.--Cerejota (talk) 05:08, 18 September 2011 (UTC) ~~~~

Kefallinia PrefectureKefalonia PrefectureRelisting. -GTBacchus(talk) 13:58, 17 August 2011 (UTC)See discussion above. From my experience, Kefalonia is by far the most common transcription of the island's name, without and within Wikipedia. Damac (talk) 18:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

  • At present, Oppose:

At least, it is clear that "Kefalonia Prefecture" is not common name in English language.

-- Takabeg (talk) 01:24, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

  • Note - I've bumped this discussion back to the top of the queue at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and left a note with WikiProject Greece asking for more input. The numbers in those Google searches are so small that this seemed appropriate. -GTBacchus(talk) 14:02, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Strong support: This is not a question about how many times the term "Kefallinia Prefecture" crops up on a Google search. The prefecture of Kefalonia is located on the island of Kefalonia. Wikipedia correctly uses the most commonly used version of the island's Modern Greek name - Kefalonia - in its article on the island and it is simply ridiculous that people are proposing that a transliteration of the Ancient Greek name of the island - Kefallinia (Κεφαλληνία) - be used when referring to the prefecture. The language spoken in Greece is modern Greek, not ancient Greek. In modern Greek, the island is known as Κεφαλονιά and the peripheral unit/municipality as Περιφερειακή ενότητα/Δήμος Κεφαλονιάς. Actually, now that the peripheral unit/municipality of Kefalonia is geographically congruous with Kefalonia, perhaps this debate would be best solved by merging this Kefallinia Prefecture article into the Kefalonia one, or at least name it Kefalonia (peripheral unit). The prefectures of Greece were abolished on 31 December 2010.--Damac (talk) 20:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Also support per common name. The fact that the official Greek title uses the Ancient/Katharevousa form Κεφαλληνία does not influence the rendering of the name into English, where Kefalonia is certainly more common. I strongly disagree on any merging with the Kefalonia article, because the prefecture comprised both Kefalonia and Ithaca, and is thus a distinct administrative unit. Renaming likewise would be a mistake, since the prefecture comprising both islands was abolished, not transformed into a peripheral unit. IMO, the article should be kept as an article on a historical administrative entity, like Attica and Boeotia Prefecture etc. Constantine 22:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Cplakidas, I would agree that the Kefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture should have been retained, having argued to have it created in the first place (see discussion above). Indeed, this page should be reinstated, as the opening line of the Kefallinia Prefecture reads "The Kefallinia Prefecture (Greek: Νομός Κεφαλληνίας) was a prefecture in Greece, containing the Ionian islands of Kefalonia and Ithaca." But as the we discussed in a requested move in January 2010, the old Kefallinia Prefecture was renamed Kefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture.
So now we have two issues:
1. Whether to rename this article Kefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture
2. How to distinguish between the following entites:
a. The island of Kefalonia
b. The municipality or Kefalonia (municipality), and
c. Kefalonia (peripheral unit)--Damac (talk) 08:09, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Kefalonia the island is I think coterminous with the municipality and the peripheral unit, so there is no need for separate articles here. On the prefecture, I don't really remember the exact nomenclature used. If you can find a link to show the composite name as being the official one, let's move this particular page. On the main issue here, which is how to render the name of the island itself, "Cephalonia" would also be acceptable, per the discussion below. Constantine 08:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

The common name of the island in English is Kefalonia, but the common name of the administrative division in English is not Kefalonia but Kefallinia. Takabeg (talk) 04:50, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Really? Let's do a Google search
Please Wikipedia:COMMONNAME again. We prefer google books to normal google search. Normal google searches are problematic. For example, do you know Google bomb ? Takabeg (talk) 12:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
You might find another move discussion interesting that I closed recently. At Talk:Crêpe, the most recent move request contains, in posts by User:Noetica, some very interesting analysis of Google searches. I think he amply demonstrates how little those numbers mean unless you go significantly deeper than the surface.

I say this with no prejudice towards any name being considered in this request, as I haven't looked at these searches at all, much less in detail. What really works best, though, is listing actual sources, and seeing if there's a prevalent usage among the best and most widely recognized of them. Google Books is certainly more useful for this task than ordinary Google. -GTBacchus(talk) 21:28, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

For example, the Concise Dictionary of World Placenames (Oxford University Press, 2005) which uses the most common transliteration of the island's name: Cephalonia; note that it is discussing the modern island. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:50, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Cephalonia (Kefallinía), Greece Same [i.e. as in English]. The largest of the Ionian Islands, it probably takes its name from the Greek kephal ‘head’, here with the meaning ‘mountain’. However, according to legend, the island is named after the mythical Cephalus, who was given it as a reward and who later came here after the accidental manslaughter of his beloved wife, having been exiled from Athens. It has changed hands many times, undergoing Roman, Norman, Neapolitan, Venetian, Turkish, French, and British rule before being ceded to Greece in 1864.
Merci. You can request move on the Talk:Kefalonia. Takabeg (talk) 21:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it clear that the prefecture is spelled in sources the same way the island is? I.e., is a source talking about the island the same thing as a source talking about the prefecture. That might be a dumb question; if so I apologize. In the US, no one would spell the archipelago Hawaii any differently from the state Hawaii, I don't think. -GTBacchus(talk) 22:22, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
It is not necessary for you to appologize. As long as I know, the tradisional place names and transliterations of administrative units sometimes can be different from traditional one. When the administrative unit was newly formed, when the name was changed, when its original place names are written with non-latin alphabet, we witnessed such differency, If we seek real common names, this is inevitable dilemma. I appologize for my poor English. -- Takabeg (talk) 23:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I think I understand: You're saying that some place names are traditionally written in non-Latin alphabets, whereas the administrative units were given names with the Latin alphabet. The way we transliterate those place names in modern times might differ from the way they were written down by Ottoman officials of the time. Is that right? -GTBacchus(talk) 18:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Probably not. This is an administrative division of modern Greece, which has (naturally) used the Greek alphabet throughout. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:37, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Note: A possibly related move discussion is taking place at Talk:Kefalonia: Requested move. —  AjaxSmack  05:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

  • Update - The article at Kefalonia has been moved to Cephalonia following a successful move request. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:50, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Support move back to Kefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture (1st choice) or Kefalonia Prefecture (2nd choice). There are many titles that appear to be valid though. I am also concerned why the article is even at its current title of "Kefallinia Prefecture". There appears to have been a valid RM in January 2010 to move it to "Kefalonia and Ithaca Prefecture",[3] but then the article was moved without discussion by Anastasios (talk · contribs) to "Kefallinia Prefecture" in May 2011.[4] So better procedure at this point would be to move the article back to the Kefalonia/Ithaca title, and then do another RM from there. --Elonka 01:35, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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