Talk:Charles Theodore, Elector of Bavaria

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Untitled[edit]

Shouldn't the title be "Charles IV Theodore, Elector of Bavaria", seeing as how the translation of Karl is Charles, and IV was his regnal number... -Alex 12.220.157.93 05:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC).

No, because it wasn't. As Elector Palatinate he was Charles IV Theodore, but as Elector of Bavaria he was just Charles Theodore, although he is sometimes called Charles II Theodore (Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor being Charles I Albert). Känsterle 13:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure he was really loved in the Palatinate? my ancestors come from the palatinate and the reason they emigrated was because it was decreed that everyone must follow the ruler's religion, my ancestors being protestants, they left for Philadelphia (later coming to Canada). My ancestors emigrated in 1753, so that is certainly during his reign. I do not think he would be that loved if he forced people to convert, and mass emigration is not usually a sign of liking the ruler.

--Jadger 02:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

See W.R. Lee's Population Growth Economic Development and Social change in Bavaria 1750-1850 and Chester Higby's Bavarian Religious policy during the Napoleonic Era, both of these works shed light on Protestant Persecution. Also, note the time period your ancestors left, 1753, When Karl Theodor was still in the Palatinate supporting the arts and being admired as one of the greatest patrons to the arts in Europe. Furthermore, because you believe that your family did not like Karl Theodor, a claim I am certain you cannot verfiy, does not mean that he was not loved. There were millions of Catholics who loved him. I do not care what you think unless you can verify your claims with a broad swath of information, not just how you, as a twentieth-century wiki-intellectual thinks.

He was in fact loved in the Palatinate. Karl Theodor seems to have been a very fluid man in his beliefs and character. Early in life he was a prominent supporter of Music and the Arts and had a European renowned school of music. While some disliked him for his excess, others, including Voltaire, Ephraim Lessing, and the majority of the inhabitants, thought he was great. He was not despised until he became the Duke in Bavaria where it was widely thought he tried to sell exchange the Kingdom, the veracity of which has come under question. Also, during his transition to Bavaria, he became increasingly conservative, censoring books and enforcing Catholic primacy and reigidity in his collection of lands. Karl also came under the influence of Father Lippert and Franke, two ex-jesuit fanatics. So yes, he was loved in his more liberal youth, and despised in Bavaria, but it depends on what group you draw sources from. Lorenz von Westenrieder was not in the inner circle and is the one of the major sources of criticism for Karl Theodor. Those of a less scholarly and more devout nature regarded Karl in a much more positive light. The Palatinate also especially enjoyed his patronage from the two times he moved the court back the Mannheim, where he spent a small fortune maintaining his court. Look at The utility of splendor: ceremony, social life, and architecture at the Bavarian Court 1600-1800 by Samuel John Klingensmith for additional information on his luxurious court life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by --Mapesys (talk) 05:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Whoops (edit summary)[edit]

Should have changed that- my edit summary was misleading. Schissel | Sound the Note! 14:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)