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- 1 Grammar
- 2 Conversion rate between Roubles/USD
- 3 Inconsistent radiation units
- 4 reads very poorly and non-neutral
- 5 Was it so?
- 6 Whitewash apologia for nuclear energy use
- 7 Please update new evidence
- 8 Cancer assessments
- 9 Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2018
- 10 Some apparently peer-reviewed papers
The fist sentence should read: "at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in the city of Pripyat, located in the then Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic of the Soviet Union (USSR)" instead of: "at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in the city of Pripyat, then located in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic of the Soviet Union (USSR)". It did not physically move.
Conversion rate between Roubles/USD
Currency - can someone change the opening para to correct the 1:1 conversion rate between Roubles/USD? One rouble is worth around 2 cents currently...
Inconsistent radiation units
There appears to be inconsistency in the use of radiation units. The röntgen used in the section Radiation levels is a legacy unit of exposure and is not dose equivalent (sievert or rem) or absorbed dose (gray or rad).
See template below for radiation related quantities. Does it really mean to say rem?
reads very poorly and non-neutral
This article reads like it is trying to push a POV. The Overview section should concentrate on the costs, immediate impacts, etc., but instead devotes much of paragraph three with weasel phrases like 'is largely political in nature', all of paragraph four and five, some of paragraph six ('unusual design' - this should not be just dropped in there without explanation) to minimising the impact.
I could not read beyond this, as while I am not well-informed enough to comment on the science of the cancer risk to those exposed, it was clear from the first few paragraphs that this article has been written not to describe the events, but rather to minimise the current political impact.
Scanning further ahead suggests the article does not get better, with phrases like ' It characterized the estimate of nearly a million deaths as more in the realm of science fiction than science.', and 'Two anti-nuclear advocacy groups have publicized non-peer-reviewed estimates'.
This is embarrassingly bad writing: the overview should describe the actual events, clean-up operation, contemporary actions in response, and keep the POVing analysis of cancer statistics to a bare minimum, as there seems to be plenty of room for POV-pushing elsewhere in this long article, without devoting much of the lead to debunking the presumed existing beliefs of the reader.
It is uncontroversial fact, for example, that x numbers of people were evacuated on x date, or that x number of people were involved in the clean-up, or indeed that the accident resulted in serious damage to the nuclear industry, without any need for 'you would have been worse off in London' content (which COULD possibly find a place elsewhere, in a section, perhaps on the response to the accident).
I have not posted to Wikipedia for quite some years but those involved with this effort should be embarrassed, as it shows much of what is bad about Wikipedia. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 05:15, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
- The RBMK reactor design is contrary to you sentiments here, indeed a very unusual reactor design. It has not only a positive void coefficient but the highest positive value, of any commercial reactor ever constructed. Meaning positive feedback, were heating will increase reactivity, increasing heating even more. That is unusual. The most common reactor design worldwide, the PWRs has a negative void coefficient. So from that very basic level, the chernobyl reactor fleet is an unusual design. It is not the same as most reactors, it will go into reactivity runaway in certain conditions.
- So your false belief that this is a case of "weasel wording", shows that you're not really all that grounded in reality there? Nor did you bother to read the article or any of the WP:RS that state the "science-fiction" quote, which is from the national academy of sciences, that analysed the claim, close to a zillion deaths was due to Chernobyl.
- You should be embarrassed for seeing weasel words were there aren't any and then trying to attack quotes from the national academy of sciences. You then should tell us why you want to divorce the occurrence of the later evacuations from the peer-reviewed data that computes it caused more deaths than it prevented, by pushing evacuees into smog filled cities.
Was it so?
Hallo!: the path to accident was described in other sources as follows: the communist party man in command of plant called workers for an special test, he was the only aware of nature and procedures. The main cooling system was disconnected, then an emergency backup cooling system was annulated too, and finally, an automated blockade that prevented reactor to be run under these conditions was circumvented. After this no-cooling situation was stablished, the commander said the central to be put at full power output; the operators realized it was about to explode under their feet, and send down in a rush the control bars, to slow down the chain reaction. They say initially, the bars increased the neutron flow inside the reactor core, leading to a catastrophic overheating and the meltdown event. If things happened this way: is there a way to reject the idea that the catastrophe was deliberate? I'd say, no, no, no. Aims? Ethnic cleansing of Ukraine, its inhabitants having a centuries old confrontation with Russians, and showing the 'psychotic', -meaning 'psychopaths', in western terms-, capitalist nations the dangers of a Nuclear conflict? Gorbatschow claimed an absolute ignorance of all the steps and about the accident itself. It's hard to find evidences, but this tale closely matches the events. Regards. Salut + — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hijuecutivo (talk • contribs) 20:29, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Whitewash apologia for nuclear energy use
The article is full of POV refutations against the idea that there were increased cancers and deformities following the accident. In contrast, the media present this issue as one open for debate. The article presently (June 10, 2018) is scrubbed of negative material supporting the contention that radiation related illnesses increased.
From the sanitized presentation it is likely that negative material will be removed. So, I present it here. From "Business Insider":
"Physicians in the region have reported a sharp rise in birth defects there since 1986.
A 2010 study by the American Academy of Pediatrics found a correlation between the presence of hazardous levels of strontium-90 — a radioactive element produced by nuclear fission — and dramatically high rates of certain congenital birth defects.
Belarus, whose border with Ukraine is just four miles from the Chernobyl power plant, absorbed an estimated 70% of the nuclear fallout.
- Scrubbed? Huh? Show us how the boar contamination was scrubbed, or the thyroid-cancer-increase was "scrubbed"? In reality, the article actually has a problem with being very lenient towards "negative" rumor and conjecture, it even includes considerable ink to the "opinions" of highly partisan green parties, anti-nuclear groups and general quack-science-fiction publishers and so on. We really don't need more.
- Secondly, we don't allow fake news outlets like Business insider to have a platform on medical matters. As are you for real? Have a look at who their fossil fuel advertisers are Dogru144.
- Actual reputable studies do not back up any of the FUDite "business insider" sentences you clearly swallowed hook line and sinker. Perhaps if you had looked into it, instead of wasting my time. You would realize that they're in reality, the carefully tailored cherry-pickings of a biased publication which clearly set out with its conclusion and then went looking for quotations and studies to shoe-horn into that mould. This encyclopedia article should be focused on WP:RSMED, away from these rags.
- Though if you want to contribute, that is, instead of regurgitating fossil fuel dramatizations, you could have considered looking past the FUD and hunted down the reputable WP:RSMED. To get you started, Business insider isn't one.
- The author of the mentioned 2010 polissia/Rivne study by the American Academy of Pediatrics had, his qualifiers unsurprisingly, completely snipped-out of the Business Insider hit-piece. So how about a quote from a WP:RSMED to start you off. "Wertelecki is keen to point out that the study does not claim that radiation exposure is definitively the cause of the defects. The study lacked data about prenatal drinking and the diet of mothers in the region, he stresses. Both are key to understanding the causes of the defects as fetal exposure to alcohol and a lack of folates during pregnancy can lead to both types of birth defects".
- https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(10)60605-8.pdf - that's what a reliable source looks like, by the way.
- You're probably not too familiar with the science I take it, but to let you know, some other publishers have even suggested that the doubling of neural tube defects(NTDs) in Turkey was caused by Chernobyl. Yes that's right, the rate in Turkey is twice that of living beside chernobyl itself and some researchers likewise tried to draw a connection to chernobyl, though with some really dubious low confidence. "NTDs (26.1/10 000) have a higher prevalence in the Polissia [chernobyl] region (in the Rivne province) as compared to the rest of the Rivne province (respectively 16.4/10 000 between 2000 and 2009) that was less contaminated with radioisotopes after the Chernobyl disaster...In Turkey, NTD occurrence also increased from an average of 21.2/10,000 to 43.9/10,000 the first 2 years following the disaster, which may be due to the radioactive contaminants originating from the Chernobyl disaster (Mocan, Bozkaya, Mocan, & Furtun, 1990)."
- Yes according to some, Turkey was worse affected" by Chernobyl than people living essentially downwind of Chernobyl itself. omg gee whiz. Stop the presses let's get this out to the world! Or you know maybe, just maybes, seen as Turkey didn't get much of any fallout at all, this could instead simply be a study of poverty, folate deficiency and agricultural nitrate pollution of drinking supplies. Both of which are the actual uncontroversial causes of neural tube defects. With surprisingly. neither of these highly published teratogens, having been controlled for, in any of these studies. Now that's small oversight.
- Indeed, in follow up examination of this Eastern Turkey-Chernobyl suggestion. "the increases observed occurred mainly in infants conceived well over a year after the Chernobyl disaster, suggesting that other factors may be responsible".
- While the dietary folate issue is fairly widely popularized at this stage, here's a primer on the evidence for >5 mg of nitrates in drinking water causing NTDs, that is, if you're unfamiliar. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27007730
- The human capacity for confirmation bias knows no bounds. So seen as no multi-factorial studies in or near chernobyl have ever shown any increase in NTDs, in even mice living and eating in the most heavily contaminated Chernobyl region. If you can't get controlled mice studies to show up any increase, with multi-factorial analysis. You don't have science, you pretty clearly have a case of Pirates and global warming. Especially with regard to Turkey.
- As for the other cherry-picking example from Business insider. I went hunting down this alleged UNICEF "fact". Once again, the business insider author is, showing their readers contempt by grossly misleading them. The actual source never states this science-fiction of "20% of adolescents have disabilities caused by birth defects". Honestly, at this stage, you begin to wonder, with all this consistent slanting and misquoting, are they even pretending to be unbiased? Or do they just want us to stop taking them seriously and permanently put their work in the oil-funded comedy magazine stand?
- As the actual source, doesn't mention Chernobyl being the cause of any of this "20%" and neither do they mention birth defect rates. It is simply a UNICEF review of the children of a poor country with rampant organized crime, HIV/AIDS, heavy drug use and a woefully bad education system etc. etc.
- Here's what UNICEF actually was talking about before their work was once again co-opted by the fake news outlet, the Business insider: "In 2008, the share of adolescents with chronic diseases and disabilities amounted to 21.7% versus 14.6% of school children of all age groups. Smoking, alcohol consumption and drug misuse by adolescents are growing risk factors. As of January 2010, there were 25,336 orphans and children deprived of parental care in formal care. Of them 6,767 children (26.7%) resided in 72 public residential care institutions and 18,596 children (73.3%) were in substitute family care, including guardianship, foster families, and family type children’s homes. In 2010, de-institutionalization strategies resulted in placement of 74% of new cases of children deprived of parental care in family-based alternatives (an 11.5% decrease of children in residential care versus 2009). UNICEF continues to advocate and support the country’s efforts to expand the on-going practice of return of children deprived of parental care to their biological families.
- Due to focused interventions (early intervention, perinatal care) child disability has decreased. Nevertheless, 25,867 disabled children and some 120,000 children are in need of special education. Children with disabilities represent 35% of all institutionalized children.
- As of November 1, 2010 the cumulative number of HIV cases increased to 11,562 which are 10 % higher than in 2009; 65.7% of those infected are aged 15-29."
- We can only speculate on what motivates those who pen these cherry-picking Business insider articles and who their paymasters are. Though at this stage, any illusion of the author striving for journalistic integrity when writing their piece, is pretty clearly just that. It it not only a litany of egregious falsehoods and confabulations but something truly Goebbels-esque. As once again, UNICEF did not state that 20% of adolescents have birth defects, UNICEF in 2010 instead said the kids have chronic diseases and disabilities with smoking, drugs, alcohol consumption and HIV as the growing risk factors for the adolescent diseases and disabilities.
- There are actually more registered "disabled" children in Moldova per capita than Belarus. Just to hopefully highlight for you, that number-of-disabled does not equate to contamination levels nor to birth defects. Moreover there were some "1.8 million" Belorussian adolescents in 2010, just to put UNICEFs numbers in perspective. http://eap-csf.eu/wp-content/uploads/Background-Analysis-Report_amended-18-01-2017.pdf
- However if you're interested in knowing the actual medical data on if there was any evidence for Chernobyl increasing birth defects in Belarus, if you're genuinely curious about birth defects and if any correlation to the most contaminated regions of Belarus was found. Here's a quote from the abstract of the excellent update on Lazjuk's earlier 1995 and 1997 papers. Nine easily diagnosed malformations have been monitored since 1983 [in Belarus]. Reporting completeness exceeds 85% for all periods and all regions. In all periods, the prevalence at birth of these malformations was lower in the most contaminated regions and showed a similar positive time trend in areas of low and high contamination [since 1983, that is to remind you, some 3 years before the Chernobyl releases].
- The congenital anomalies registry in Belarus: a tool for assessing the public health impact of the Chernobyl accident. . Lazjuk et. al 2003
- Ergo, no connection to radiation exposure found, Lazjuk looked at the abortion registry too, by the way.
- Now, after all that, could you see about adding these, the actual WP:RSMED? As I kind of tire of these oil-advertiser fake-news outlets, who cherry-pick studies, misquote UN bodies and generally are only fit, to be placed in the comedic FUD magazine stalls.
- 184.108.40.206 (talk) 04:57, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Please update new evidence
The first explosion was a neutron cascade, nuclear explosion through the fuel tubes, creating a nuclear jet, impaling a worker to the ceiling and spreading xenon fission products at Cherepovets, 370 km north of Moscow. It was the second explosion that was steam.
This timeline reads like a screenplay of a horror movie. http://chernobylgallery.com/chernobyl-disaster/timeline/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:500:8500:9221:D097:87D0:2C2F:87D2 (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
- We already discussed Lars' work. We therefore don't need to update anything and we certainly don't need to do as you've done and conflate the events of the SL-1 accident were a man who failed to foresee the effects of his actions fully removing a control rod, did indeed impale himself to the roof. Though that was in the US.
- 220.127.116.11 (talk) 05:51, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2018
|This edit request has been answered. Set the |
In "Experiment and explosion" section please change:
After the larger explosion, a number of employees at the power station went outside to get a clearer view of the extent of the damage. One such survivor, Alexander Yuvchenko, recounts that once he stopped outside and looked up towards the reactor hall, he saw a "very beautiful" LASER-like beam of light bluish light caused by the ionization of air that appeared to "flood up into infinity".
After the larger explosion, a number of employees at the power station went outside to get a clearer view of the extent of the damage. One such survivor, Alexander Yuvchenko, recounts that once he stepped outside and looked up towards the reactor hall, he saw a "very beautiful" LASER-like beam of light bluish light caused by the ionization of air that appeared to "flood up into infinity".
Some apparently peer-reviewed papers
Health of pregnant women. The Chernobyl disaster. Kiev, Naukova Dumka Publishers, 1995; Krasnopolskiy, V.I., Fedorova, M.Ye., Zhilenko, M.I. et al., Pregnancy and birth in the region of the Chernobyl accident. Obstetrics and Gynecology, No.8-12, 1992. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 03:36, 17 September 2018 (UTC)