Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Complex

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Mockingjay pop culture reference removed[edit]

Twice, editors have in good faith added references to Mockingjay to this article, as a possible "District 13" location. That's not backed up by any references, and the bunker complex described in "Mockingjay" is much larger (city-sized), but less hardened. The Central Government War Headquarters, UK, with ten miles of roadways and a capacity of 4000 people, or the US's Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center would be a better match. --John Nagle (talk) 06:37, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain article discussion[edit]

Please see the Talk:Colorado Springs, Colorado#Cheyenne Mountain (related to Cheyenne Canon) posting about the different Cheyenne Mountain articles.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station / nuclear bunker[edit]

I've posted a question at Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station#Difference between this and Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker about the distinction between the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker and the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. Any clarification or input there is much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 21 February 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain t/c 20:23, 16 March 2015 (UTC)



Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunkerCheyenne Mountain Complex – Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker is not the name of the facility. It is most commonly called Cheyenne Mountain Complex, although there are other names that indicate the NORAD/USNORTHCOM command status at three distinct periods of time, such as NORAD Combat Operations Center, Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center, and NORAD and USNORTHCOM Alternate Command Center (which will be clarified in the history section of the article).

[It is also called the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station, (see Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station Fact Sheet) which now has control of the facility. Other units, such as NORAD and USNORTHCOM, are located in the facility/complex. The article about the Air Force Station is written from that standpoint.] CaroleHenson (talk) 06:11, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

  • I have no opinion about this matter, but the Google Books hits have been calculated incorrectly. The (relatively) accurate count for "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" is 101] hits. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 10:28, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Thanks so much! I learned something today! I ran the query and got 15,400 books... and the only way the count went down was to go to the tenth page, see that there's an 11th page and then click on that page. If there's a quicker way to get to that number I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know... but at least I know a work-around now to double-check counts.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:56, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Procedural note – As Cheyenne Mountain Complex is a redirect with a two-edit history (no content edits), I have simplified the request so there's no confusion that this is about moving two separate but related articles. It is implied and understood that if "nuclear bunker" is moved over the "Complex" redirect, then "nuclear bunker" will simply redirect to "Complex" if this request is completed. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:14, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per User:Wbm1058  — Amakuru (talk) 13:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Is this information notable for the article?[edit]

There's already a lot of information about the construction of the complex and its facilities. Is any of the following notable for the article?

Colorado School of Mines' Dr Livingston designated precision blasting to prevent later fracture of remaining granite[1]Yes check.svg Done and on December 21, 1961, with excavation 53% complete there were 200 workers on a wildcat strike.[2]Yes check.svg Done

On February 21, 1963, for "NORAD Phase II Facilities" ($6,969,000 plus $106,000 additional funds)[3]Yes check.svg Done Continental Consolidated was contracted for interior construction[4] (blog) that began in March[5] and included clearing the water reservoirs[3] and erecting 11 buildings with 170,000 sq ft (3.9 acres) of space:[6]:45Yes check.svg Done 8 three-story buildings in the "main chambers" and 3 two-story buildings in the support area.[5] Grafe-Wallace, Inc and J. M. Foster Co. received "a joint $7,212,033 contract for installation of utilities and blast-control equipment in April 1964" (e.g., the original six 956-kilowatt diesel powered generators).[5]Yes check.svg Done

In June, 3 buildings began occupancy ("South Center Building" on the 11th, "North Center Building": 17th, "Center Building": 28th), basic testing was satisfactory on December 15,[7]:319 and all 11 underground buildings were complete in December.[8]

"Blast-resistant" communication with the DCA network (800 military installations) was originally via Cheyenne Mountain's 2 radio data links and 4 ground lines of the Close-in Automatic Route Restoral System (CARRS).[9]Yes check.svg Done CARRS nodes included the Black Forest Microwave Station of AT&T to the northeast[10] and the Lamar Communications Facility east-southeast[11] (initially of the 47th Communications Group).[12] The Aviano Air Base correlation center for the Forward Scatter over the Horizon Radar network (440L system with AN/FRT-80 transmitters & AN/FSQ-76 receivers) was[when?] also connected to the NORAD Combat Operation Center.[7]:260

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference SuperStructures was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference strike was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b [US government[specify] (May 8, 1969). "B-159934" (legal contract memorandum to Continental Consolidated Construction Co.). GAO.gov. Retrieved 2013-01-29. 
  4. ^ "The Evolution to Aerospace Defense (1959-1979)" (thread posting). AESA Technology - Next Generation Radar. USpoliticsOnline.net. 2006-03-29. Retrieved 2012-07-28.  (webpage's citation superscript 60 does not identify reference 60.)
  5. ^ a b c Cite error: The named reference Lewiston1967 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ Cite error: The named reference Winkler was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  7. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference LeonardV2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  8. ^ Cite error: The named reference NORAD12 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  9. ^ "A Blast-Resistant Communications Network". Bell Laboratories Record. October 1965. Retrieved 2012-08-29. 
  10. ^ EVER WONDER? AT&T caused NORAD blackout; Cresterra Parkway. Gazette.com (2011-08-26). Retrieved on 2013-09-18.
  11. ^ "Yahoo! Groups". Dir.groups.yahoo.com. Retrieved 2012-11-27.  & "Military Construction". Whs.mil. Retrieved 2012-11-27. 
  12. ^ Tyler, Tim (July 29, 2009). "Re: [coldwarcomms] Lamar Colorado". Groups.Yahoo.com. Retrieved 2012-12-06. 

--Any input is much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:06, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the less significant construction details can be split to a sub-article Construction of the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, per WP:summary style, so as not to give undue weight to construction details in the main overview article. Wbm1058 (talk) 23:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Great idea! Makes a lot of sense.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Split out construction into the new article and in the process of working on verifying, finding better sources (if needed) and integrating the info above.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:55, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Made some more updates from reliable sources, skipped info from Yahoo groups and self-published source. Will try to find other info from reliable sources re: construction.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Soviet/Russian counterpart[edit]

From some sources of my reading, the closest Russian counterpart to the facility is regarded to be Kosvinsky Mountain, finished in early 1996.[1][2][3]

However according to this rarther questionally accurate sentence from pre-emptive strike, it is Yamantaw. The Russian military also has a equivalent facility known as SPRN (СПРН),[4] based at Mount Yamantaw in the Urals.

Some clarification on which one is the closer couterpart would help with this article, probably Kovinsky, but maybe someone here knows some stronger references for that.

  1. ^ "WINDOW ON HEARTLAND Geopolitical notes on Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia". Windowonheartland.net. Retrieved 9 December 2014. 
  2. ^ "Moscow builds bunkers against nuclear attack", by Bill Gertz, Washington Times, April 1, 1997
  3. ^ "Global Security.org Kosvinsky Mountain, Kos'vinskiy Kamen', Gora, MT 59°31'00"N 59°04'00"E". 
  4. ^ Железняков, Александр (translit. Zheleznyakov, Alexander) (2004-10-01). "МЕРТВАЯ РУКА" (Assumed orig. paper, converted to HTML on website `Энциклопедия «Космонавтика»` (trans. Space Encyclopedia?)). "Секретные материалы № 22(149)" (trans. Secret Materials?). Федерации космонавтики России (trans. Russian Federation of Cosmonautics?). pp. 16–17. Retrieved 2008-07-19.