Talk:China

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Why is this article about the People's Republic of China?
Because of the overwhelming usage of "China" to refer to the People's Republic of China in both Chinese and English languages; we use the common name to title our articles.
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The Russian ruble is accepted as valid tender in Suifenhe, China[edit]

Chinese government allows to use both the Russian ruble and the yuan, in Suifenhe, China as a legal tender. It is the first time in the history of PRC when the usage of a foreign currency as a payment for goods and services is allowed on its territory. I suggest to add the Russian ruble to the list of currencies along with the yuan in the same fashion as it's done for Panama and US dollar, but with a footnote that its usage is only allowed in a certain region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.141.26 (talkcontribs) 11:24, November 26, 2014

both nominal total GDP and purchasing power parity[edit]

China is number one by both nominal total GDP and purchasing power parity not number two. Please edit ????. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swax2 (talkcontribs) 16:44, December 19, 2014

Information about water supply and sanitation infrastructure[edit]

My proposal is to keep the information about water supply and sanitation infrastructure with the existing heading on infrastructure (but someone deleted it, saying it's part of environmental issues). It is not an environmental issue, it is about providing people with infrastructure and services. Since this page already has a section in infrastructure, it fits very well. If needed, it could be shortened. See also related discussion the talk page of the WikiProject Countries template: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countries/Templates#Suggestion:_Add_infrastructure_to_the_template and also here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Philg88#Your_edits_about_water_supply_and_sanitation_on_the_China_page EvMsmile (talk) 11:29, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

The section has been removed by three different editors, [1] by Moxy, [2] by 小梨花 and [3] by myself, so there is consensus that is is not needed, though for varying reasons. For myself it is primarily an environmental issue and one of many, and the section was both misplaced and gave undue weight to the topic in this summary article, so does not belong.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 01:37, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
That's three people who removed it versus 3 people who put it in (see here by User:Philg88 and before that by User:Mll mitch and myself), so I don't see how this is "consensus" already? I'd rather think we should have a proper discussion here before declaring this as closed. Access to water supply is NOT an environmental issue. What is your argument for saying it is an "environmental issue"? Access to sanitation in itself is also not an environmental issue. See here about Millennium Development Goals which explains why access is important for people. - In which sense is the section "misplaced"? Where should it be rather placed? And if it gives "undue weight" then how else should it be incluced? EvMsmile (talk) 02:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
On content, the overlap of that section and the original article was clear. No matter what issue it is, it has been adequately mentioned, including its background, its status and the infrastructural growth, It does not need another with a style like a government report or thesis of vague statements and sweeping generalizes (like "sth. pose great challenges" and "increased...increased...increased...and increased..."). Perhaps some substantive contents like South–North Water Transfer Project is more suitable for this article.小梨花 (talk) 04:57, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Where has it been adequately mentioned already? Like the JMP access figures, they have not been mentioned yet? And just to make sure everyone is on the same page, this is the part that I would like to see added (of course the wording can be improved, e.g. if the word "increased" is repeated too often!)

+++++++

Water supply and sanitation sector is undergoing a massive transition while facing numerous challenges such as rapid urbanization, a widening gap between rich and poor as well as urban and rural areas. Water scarcity, contamination, and pollution in China also pose great challenges.<ref name="Chinatocleanuppollutedlake">BBC News. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7065095.stm China to clean up polluted lake]. 27 October 2007.</ref><ref name="Water Scarcity in China">{{cite web |url = http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7d6f69ea-bc73-11e2-b344-00144feab7de.html#axzz2TMae0Kjs|title = China: High and dry: Water shortages put a brake on economic growth|publisher = Financial Times|date = May 14, 2013|accessdate = 2013-05-15|author = Hook, Leslie}}</ref>

Much has been achieved during the past decades in terms of increased access to services, increased municipal wastewater treatment, the creation of water and wastewater utilities that are legally and financially separated from local governments, and increasing cost recovery as part of the transformation of the Chinese economy to a more market-oriented system. The government quadrupled investments in the sector during the Eleventh Five-Year Plan (2006–10).

However, according to survey data analyzed by the Joint Monitoring Program for Water and Sanitation of WHO and UNICEF, about 100 million Chinese still did not have access to an improved water source in 2008, and about 460 million did not have access to improved sanitation. Progress in rural areas appears to lag behind what has been achieved in urban areas.<ref name="Water Scarcity in China" />

+++++++ EvMsmile (talk) 06:48, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

  • I don't think that anyone can argue that water supply and sanitation shouldn't be included in country articles, so the question is where. Our own article on infrastructure defines it as "the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions". Water and sewage services fall within that gamut so that seems to be our answer.  Philg88 talk 06:53, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
The article has include this:
The country also has water problems. Roughly 298 million Chinese in rural areas do not have access to safe drinking water,[148] and 40% of China's rivers had been polluted by industrial and agricultural waste by late 2011. In 2011, the Chinese government announced plans to invest four trillion yuan (US$618.55 billion) in water infrastructure and desalination projects over a ten-year period, and to complete construction of a flood prevention and anti-drought system by 2020.[150][158]
Paragraphs should be short enough to be readable, but long enough to develop an idea. This is a consensus of Wikipedia, about this we could take a cue from some featured country articles such as Germany or India. So we could edit something different, concise and clear to the point with real data and references, such as wastewater treatment ratio, the number of wastewater treatment plants, the number of reservoirs, per capita possession of water resources, number of serious water shortage city and South–North Water Transfer Project.小梨花 (talk) 10:38, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I agree with what User:Philg88 said. About this sentence that is currently in the article "Roughly 298 million Chinese in rural areas do not have access to safe drinking water,[148]" - it is actually in the wrong location, namely under environmental issues, but it is not an environmental issue whether someone has access to drinking water, it's an infrastructure and service issue. Also the reference given there is not great. I had added a much better one, data from UNICEF and WHO from 2015 - therefore it makes no sense to me why that old sentence and old reference is allowed to stay in but my new statement and better reference is not. I would propose to carefully weed through the section on "environmental issues" and take those things out of there that actually concern infrastructure and then put them where they belong, i.e. in the new section on water supply and sanitation infrastructure. As the article already has a section on infrastructure, I really don't see the reason for the great resistance to say something about water and sanitation infrastructure there, too. And yes, it could be built up with new information about sewage treatment plants, which is probably already included here: water supply and sanitation in China, so it would not need to be repeated, but mentioned briefly and otherwise the reader should be referred across to the other article (which of course should also then be updated if needed). And yes, the same logic does apply to other country articles, too.EvMsmile (talk) 11:28, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I think (hope) that I've come up with a good compromise now: I have added a section called "other infrastructure" and put very basic information about water supply access and sanitation there, together with Wikilinks. I think this is now good to remind people that there is more infrastructure than IT and tranport but without giving undue weight to water supply and sanitation. I hope this can serve as a starting point for other editors to contribute more. EvMsmile (talk) 04:05, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Do not change to "football is currently the most popular spectator sport in China"[edit]

Do not change to "football is currently the most popular spectator sport in China" with a reference about the number of audiences of a certain football match. There is already a Chinese reference of a 2014 survey result of General Administration of Sport showing which is the most popular spectator sport, basketball is 34.9%, while football is 10.4%.[4]

小梨花 (talk) 11:12, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2015[edit]

Gini_year = 2014

| Gini_change = | Gini = 46.9 | Gini_ref = <ref name=PNAS>{{cite web |url=http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/hdr_2015_statistical_annex.pdf |format=PDF |title=2015 Human Development Report Summary |date=2015 |accessdate=14 December 2015 |publisher=United Nations Development Programme | pages=17}}</ref> | Gini_rank = Noahlee (talk) 04:51, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:06, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2016[edit]

Antonioga (talk) 09:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi,

In section 9.3 Urbanization I'd change the second sentence data:

"The percent of the country's population living in urban areas increased from 20% in 1990 to over 50% in 2014."

Actually, this are the real urban percentages given by the National Bureau of Statistics of China: 19.39% (1980), 26.41% (1990), 54.77% (2014). Source: http://data.stats.gov.cn/english/easyquery.htm?cn=C01

So, I'd leave the above sentence like this: "The percent of the country's population living in urban areas increased from 20% in 1980 to over 50% in 2014." Changing 1990 to 1980 and the souce of the data as well.

See you

Yes check.svg DoneUY Scuti Talk 18:35, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Flag[edit]

official and most commonly used version? proposed
currently used version in this article

Should we adopt or restore or (replace file) this flag with 7 February 2011 version of the flag Dannis243 (talk) 12:30, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

  • It seems that there is no consensus for either keeping the current version or restoring the correct version, the preceding discussion was a decade ago and is not authoritative right now we need to have consensus for either keeping this or restoring the correct version. The lighter version is the official one and the one most commonly used. Also this current version being used in Wikipedia is based on original Dannis243 (talk) 12:31, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Could you show both images here so we know what we're choosing between? And are there any arguments for or against either? -Darouet (talk) 04:33, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I think that the more common flag is the one you should use. If I were editing this article, I would not hesitate to put up the more common/official one. I don't know how an WP:RFC got into this. I think it is policy somewhere to use the most common or official version of something available.
  • What are the differences beyond the shades of red? Don't countries usually specify what shade their flags are? What is the argument for each one? Gamaliel (talk) 05:29, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Is there a reason the official/more common one shouldn't be used? AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 08:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
  • If that's the right color, we should use it. Eman235/talk 08:04, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
  • I support replacing the current flag with the proposed flag for two reasons: 1.) it is more bright and 2.) more commonly used. Meatsgains (talk) 04:02, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2016[edit]

Republic of China (1912 - present)

Ref: https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/%E4%B8%AD%E8%8F%AF%E6%B0%91%E5%9C%8B Ref: http://www.mofa.gov.tw/default.html 12.12.154.125 (talk) 20:16, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:34, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Suggest removal citation 173[edit]

Citation 173 is both unnecessary and potentially controversial. The point made already has a citation and The Washington Times (as opposed to Washington Post) is not a very legitimate source of information - backed by religious interests and publishing highly editorialized content as "news." Even title of article cited "Red China's Iron Grip on Power" raises red flags as biased and inflammatory in tone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snarlyj (talkcontribs) 22:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Wash Times is a legitimate source of information regardless of the religious preferences of its owners. Its statements about the iron grip of the Communist Party, and widespread corruption, are of course not permitted inside China, but they are well known facts and the rest of the world. Rjensen (talk) 23:03, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Suggest: retain #173, remove citation 172. Any particular article in the NY Times, Wash Times, or Toonerville Gazette could be a Reliable Source, depending on the topic and the nature of the information. In this case, the article cited in #173 is written by Reza Hasmath, a lecturer in Chinese Politics, University of Oxford, and is a technical but lucid discussion of four reasons why the government stays in power. The title is indeed biased and inflammatory -- "Red China"!? -- but the article itself is not.
Citation 172, on the other hand, is 1) Behind a pay wall 2) Dated 2002, and thus a dozen years out of date. 3) Superfluous.
ch (talk) 05:47, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
I see the point about 172 being little better, but still feel some resistance to relying on a source that refers to "Red China" (though I understand the argument that the article can be legitimate from any source or with any title). Could I suggest replacing both citations with the 2012 report from the Pew Research Center (hard to argue with their legitimacy?), "Growing Concerns in China about Inequality, Corruption"? I think this provides all the same information, but from a less controversial source. Snarlyj (talk) 09:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
China's governing party is a legit topic but the religious beliefs of the owners of a newspaper = not a legit argument against the credentials of an established expert. Newspaper headlines are written by staff not by the RS himself. Removing such material is a POV violation. SO go ahead and ADD the Pew materials, drop 171 as too old, but let's keep the Wash. TIMES story Rjensen (talk) 14:26, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Sounds like a good compromise to me, and an actual improvement. I agree with Rjensen that the religious (or political) persuasion of a publication is not enough to disqualify a particular article as a RS, but on the other hand, the article doesn't talk much about the statement that needs to be sourced and the sentences covered by the Hasmath reference don't do justice to the material in the article. In addition, linking the Pew report gives readers information on a wider range of topics.
Looking at the whole "Government" section in relation to the article, it seems thin and incomplete in any case. Logically, a section "Government" should come before "Party." Sourcing an important article like this from old newspapers and radio broadcasts does not make Wikipedia look good! Perhaps Snarlyj could expand the section "Government" with added material from the Pew survey and some more solid references? Any political science textbook on China would be good enough. "Government" should include more than public opinion. Footnote "M" is redundant and scarcely neutral ("not a real executive like the US"?). Cheers. ch (talk) 19:11, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes I can definitely write a revised "Government" section. Should I then submit it under this thread or start a new discussion (or both)? Snarlyj (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Policy says "Go for it!." No need to submit first. If questions arise, we can discuss them. I'll add a See Main link to Government of China -- not sure why there isn't one already, so my understanding is that the section here doesn't have to be comprehensive.ch (talk) 05:50, 7 February 2016 (UTC)