Talk:Chinese calendar

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Chinese Years shown in the table might be wrong[edit]

I noticed that there is a one year gap between years shown in the table and those calculated on the website: http://www.hermetic.ch/cal_sw/ch_years.php For example, 2013 corresponds to 4710 instead of 4711. It is also confirmed by the following Chinese calendar: http://wenku.baidu.com/link?url=lJmVIDJh778MuZSWnDIYAAZC6tIO3rv3g7olpBrC6L22y1VsOEtN6goLix53EnD792PXGqN5q-3w49LPGWUsFYN64DwpOAgUAtKQp6mwyFu — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabriberloco (talkcontribs) 04:37, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I learned long ago that Wikipedia's most damage is done by its moderators. Note there is no Rat year nor Ox year in the chart, it has the 10-year decade but not the 12-year zodiac. The Era is 237bc and 2400 years after the previous Era 2637bc. So year 1 is 2637bc but 237bc is also then year 1 not 2401, and so add 237 to 1AD as year 238 + 2012 to make 2013AD the year 2250, unless you include the previous 2400 to be year 4650. If you claim it 4710, the you do not realize the Chinese regarded Huang Di as inaugurating it after creating it for those 60 years of 2697-2637bc. Bible Genesis however proves that Yao (2333bc) and Yu (2205bc) are Peleg's son Reu as king of Ur (2207bc) accredited the birthyear of Shiloh (Shelah). Very sad state of affairs in here. I once posted all 60 year names. And even the alternatives such as Chia (is published online as Jia, and in books as Kiah), likewise Bing and Ping are the same just like Bejing and Peking, and which also shows the J and K again, so perhaps we should insist it be Beching so they can say it either way Beking or Bejing.2605:A000:BDC4:6D03:430:F7B8:1E80:CFD9 (talk) 02:08, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject Time assessment rating comment[edit]

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Yamara 17:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Older comments[edit]

A Winner of the August 2004 West Dakota Prize

This entry has won the West Dakota Prize for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence.


In this article, it gives a story about why the cat isn't on the calendar, under "Twelve Animals." Namely, the Rat pushed the cat into the water during a competition to be the animals on the calendar -- the cat wasn't able to make it to the shore so he was left out. However, in Chinese_astrology which is linked to from this article, it says the Rat was given the job of making invitations, and he didn't invite the cat. Which is true? -- anonymous

The Year of The Cat is the same as the Year of the Rabbit. Baby rabbits try to walk like cats but their front legs are too short and back legs too long.2605:A000:BDC4:6D03:430:F7B8:1E80:CFD9 (talk) 02:11, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

There are many different variations to the legend. Both are, in a sense, true. -- Anonymous


someone should copyedit this page. -- voidvector

Why are the Jie Qi specified as date range? I thought all these are used by Chinese farmers to mark certain points in the farming cycle. So the date should be used, not a range. Kowloonese 01:53, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)


This is unclear to me: "The Chinese lunar calendar and the Julian Calendar OFTEN sync up every 19 years. Most Chinese people notice that their Chinese and Western birthdays OFTEN fall on the same day on their 19th, 38th birthday etc" "Often" or DO "sync up"? Do they or don't they fall into sync on that pattern, and if sometimes not, is there a pattern to the exceptions to the pattern??

They often synchronize, but not always, because of the patterns of leap months in the Chinese Calendar and leap days in the Gregorian.


"The Chinese zodiac is completely different..." Different from what? The Western zodiac? And why is the Western zodiac referenced at all here-- I get the feeling that "Western astrological sign" is getting mixed up with "constellation" in the description of Chinese month sequencing.


The Western Zodiac is referenced because it fits in with the principal solar terms of the Chinese calendar and so makes the Chinese calendar easier to explain to Westerners who are familiar with their zodiac, but not the principal terms.

The sun enters a sign of the western zodiac at exactly the same time as a principal solar term.

User:Karl Palmen 7 Jan 2004


The date ranges for the jieqi have been changed to single dates, and the ecliptic longitude of each jieqi has been added.
Joe Kress 02:19, 2004 Mar 29 (UTC)


Seems to me the pinyin "Zhong Yang Jie" should be "Chong2 Yang Jie", since the meaning is "double". That's how it's listed at zhongwen.com.

It appears that the neither Zhong nor Chong should appear under "English Name", but that both "Double Ninth Festival" and "Double Yang Festival" should appear (yang doesn't have a direct English translation but it is an entry in its own right in the Oxford English Dictionary and is at least familiar to English readers via the dichotomy yinyang). However, under "Chinese Name" you might be right. Zhòng was added by 204.221.24.132 on Nov. 1, 2003 and was never changed. 重 is romanized into pinyin as either zhong4 (zhòng) or chong2 (chóng) according to both zhongwen.com and mandarintools.com, so that both appear to be equally correct. However, as you note, zhongwen.com does use chóng in the specific entry for 'double nine' 重九. However, that is not the 'double yang' 重陽 in the article. I don't have any idea whether that makes a difference. Perhaps this is a matter of euphony--what sounds pleasing to the Chinese ear, or what is most easily pronounced in concert with neighboring characters.
By the way, if you are using the Microsoft Windows Operating System, you don't have to enter ó via its HTML code ó, rather, the character can be directly entered from keyboards not having it (like the English keyboard) by activating NumLock and pressing and holding Alt while typing 0243 on the numeric keypad, not on the number keys above the Qwerty keyboard (the leading zero is required). This technique can be used for many other characters having three digit decimal codes. See ASCII - ISO 8859-1 (Latin-1) Table with HTML Entity Names for a complete list. This excludes tone 3 characters requiring the upside down caret ^, which many users cannot display anyway because they don't have the required fonts installed).
Joe Kress 05:44, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)
A quick survey of "Double Ninth Festival" on Google provides no doubt that you are right--the correct pinyin is chóng, thus I will change the article. On another point, yang is almost always used for the second character, not jiu (nine), thus the second character under "Chinese Name" is correct. However, the preferred English translation is Double Ninth Festival, Double Yang Festival only being used for explanation, thus the entry under "English Name" is correct.
Joe Kress 23:46, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

Korea[edit]

The article says regarding the Korean Calendar that "Korea was a vassal state of China" which is the Chinese version of history which for some unfortunate reason seems to have become the Western version.

So suggest an alternative wording which acknowledges the fact that the Korean court accepted the new Chinese calendar every year with great pagentry, which, as far as the Emperor of China was concerned, was an acknowledgement by the King of Korea that the Emperor of China as more important than he was. Or was this a sham ceremony, having no real meaning as far as the King was concerned, conducted only to keep the Emperor happy? If the King had not accepted the Emperor's calendar, or at least seemed to accept it, it would have been a sign of rebellion by the King. — Joe Kress 08:12, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)
I've changed the wording to something I hope is more accurate. "Vassal state", if used in a technical sense rather than a derogatory sense, implies an obligation on the superior state to militarily defend the lesser state in the case of an attack. I don't believe China recognized such an obligation. technopilgrim 20:28, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have my doubts about the phrase "while shutting off relations with all other countries." I suspect that Korea maintained diplomatic relations with some other countries or regions or people who also had close relations with China. Though Korea may not have had diplomatic relations with other countries that were not closely aligned with China, they probably had some kind of relationship with them. — Joe Kress 06:56, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

Boohoo... seriously, maybe Koreans should just accept their history instead of trying to wipe off Chinese influences. It's like how they just changed the Chinese name of Seoul to some nonsensical name to sound like Seoul. Why? Do you see the Japs changing Tokyo to a Japanese word? If they can deal with their capital city having a Chinese name, why can't the Koreans handle it? Even if you don't like it, it was a vassal state! otherwise, when the japs invaded during the 19th century, why did china have an obligation to go and help them?

why can't i find the date of chinese new year here[edit]

without being a mathemetician? perhaps i will give up on this site for not being useful. i didn't know it was written by whoever comes here, no verification of facts posted. not exactly an encyclopedia simply because of that, as real encyclopedias cite the names and QUALIFICATIONS of their contributors. maybe i should post the wrong info to get this problem solved.

How about looking at Chinese New Year? andy 22:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
There is a longer list of new year dates at Chinese astrology. Regarding your comment about the QUALIFICATIONS of the contributors to wikipedia, I guess the website is not what you are looking for because it is not written by one specific person. However, writings of any contributor are often challenged and debated by other contributors. You probably can try your idea here. Post some nonsense and watch how long you will survive here. Kowloonese 01:33, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
Since the Chinese calendar is based on Solar & Lunar Calendars, the Chinese New Year falls on a different date each year.

Anonymous

Chinese calendar reform[edit]

Roland Longbow added a long section which proposed that the Chinese calendar be reformed, giving his ideas for this reform. I am reverting this section because it violates official Widipedia policy which prohibits new ideas. It can be included only if those ideas have been published in some peer-reviewed journal, which must be cited. — Joe Kress 05:25, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

    • Joe: Those are not new ideas and not presented as such. You did not read it carefully. If you seach the Chinese websites, you can find quite a few of them. In other words, I did not propose any of those things. As for the discussion about the intercalary month, it is not a proposal for reform, but one way to aid the understanding of how the intercalary month works, which has been made clear in the text. The discussion whether they can do without the Chinese calendar is meant to help the reader to understand the function of the calendar, and it is not a proposal for reform. Many people from China have asked that question. As I see it, they do not violate any wikipedia rules. --Roland 07:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
Those two long sections at the end of the page are not encyclopaedic - they are opinions rather than facts. I've edited them and tried to make them clearer and more objective. Help in further improving them is welcome. --Sumple 01:18, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I will second this. The last section is loaded and biased. There have been perpetual calls for "reforms" of the perfectly servicable calendar since the May Fourth movement. There are also many calling for a return to it. But this section's language (ie "sentimental", and the resigned tsk-tsking "for some time yet") is politically partisan. It furthermore disrespectfully glosses over the lunisolar calendar's significance as an ontological necessity in Chinese Religion and Daoism. It presents biased arguments for the eradication of the Chinese calendar in favor of the Christian one. For the above reasons, I propose the section be stricken for unencyclopedic wonkery. And, for what it's worth, the Chinese calendar is very much alive in "practical" quotidian use in Chinese communities; I will attest to that as a personal user.--Aunty Entity 08:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

New year holiday[edit]

As it presently stands, the comments column for the new year holiday (Chunjie) says "[celebrate] for 3 days; traditionally for 15 days." The "traditionally for 15 days" part is obvious. But what does it mean by celebrate for 3 days? Currently the public holiday for Chinese New Year in China is 7 days.

The description in the article is not correct. Traditionally, the new year celebration begins on month 12 day 23, which called "little new year", until month 1 day 15. — Yaohua2000 03:40, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Actual calendar?[edit]

I'm thinking maybe this page could provide an actual Chinese calendar. what do youse think? --Sumple 23:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Alternative "Flower" names for the months: Guava?[edit]

In the article as it stands there are references to alternative names for the 12 months based on agricultural/horticultural references. Can anyone verify the source for these things? Also, someone posted a comment about it being "pomegranate" not "guava", which makes sense because pomegranates are much more common in China than guava. --Sumple 22:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

It's definitely pomegranate, not guava. Anyway, I suggest drop the part completely as each month has 10 or so alternative names. There is no point addressing only the "flower" alternative names but not others. The alternative names are not commonly used anyway.
Remember to sign your posts.
Anyway, same thing. I'd like to see a source on the uncommon (but pretty) Latin translation of Pomegramber as Guavamens. It probably is what the actual source says, even if it's infelicitous, but we should be able to cite the source.
As for removing, heavily opposed. I just tabled the thing and included most of the alternate names, with links to wiktionary when someone feels like adding the words. — LlywelynII 00:08, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Without citations, the Latin "mens" column is highly unnecessary. I've checked the Other names column and found various translation such as "beginning", "opening", "hill where the river begins", and even other horticultural product such as barley. I don't think each of these should be rendered with mens in Latin ("Barleymens"?). I think that whole column for Latin translation should be deleted if a citation cannot be found, although I'm sure there is one official literature which translates this with mens.
By the way, I've corrected sháoyuè 's translation from "first month" into "peony blossom month" since sháo means peony. --Rochelimit (talk) 07:53, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
I second removing the Latin name column. Just some cursory research about Latin reveals that many of the translations are English words tacked onto the suffix "-mens" - peach is "persicum" and plum is "prunum," neither of which correspond with the given ones. There also doesn't seem to be any other reference to them in terms of cultural impact, so it appears that someone just wanted to flaunt their ill-advised Latin skills. Tectonix55 (talk) 00:41, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
These names are all bogus. Support removing them. Jogloran (talk) 08:53, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Alright, at least I'm not alone in that opinion. I'm going to go ahead and remove the Latin name column for now: if someone can find some reputable source to warrant keeping them, then please feel free to revert. (Also, apologies if I'm new and stepping on toes.) Tectonix55 (talk) 23:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Additionally, fixing and standardizing the translations for the given examples. Tectonix55 (talk) 00:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

first day of each month beginning at midnight...[edit]

this might be an error because according to traditional chinese way of measuring time, it was measured in intervals of our modern two hours. the first day of each day (and month etc.) is our modern 11pm, and not midnight which is a common misconception which not many people know. - Gerald

I assume you refer to "The months are lunar months, such that the first day of each month beginning at midnight is the day of the astronomical new moon."
the language used a bit ambiguous but I think a possible interpretation is that the "day of the astronomical new moon" means the "day" in our sense of the term (midnight-midnight), not the ancient chinese sense (11pm-11pm), and that the new moon falls between the midnight of that day and the midnight of the next day. I don't know if I'm making sense. --Sumple 05:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification. But I do really hope if you could edit the article to let people know that traditionally, Chinese festivals are celebrated in our modern 11pm and not midnight. I think as a Chinese (although I'm not from China), it is important for us to teach people the accurate way of measuring time according to Chinese customs. Even many Chinese I know today do not know of this unique way of measuring time by Chinese customs. It would be great to spread this knowledge around wikipedia. -Gerald

The days begin from the midpoint of Zi-seizsaenz. But, people tends to regard that a day begins from the Yin-seizsaenz.

The solar year begin from the midpoint of Zi-term, But, civil year begins from the Yin-term.

The logic is consistent.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 02:49, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Monotonic year confusion[edit]

I understand that continuously-increasing year numbers are not widely used in China, and that while a system has been proposed, there is some debate about its precise correspondence. One part of our article (under "The stem-branch cycle") states that the epoch is 2698 BCE (or maybe 2697 BCE) and that 4703 began in early 2005 (or maybe 2006). However, the page http://www.chinapage.com/newyear.html has it the other way around, suggesting that the majority view is that 2006 is 4703 (with a footnote suggesting that "a few" believe it's the other way). Similary, the authoritative-looking page http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/calendar/chinese.shtml suggests an epoch and chronology which would end up assigning 4703 (or maybe 4643, 60 years off) to 2006. That page also mentions the possibility of a 1-year discrepancy, though it also suggests that it's to compensate for the presence or absence of the year 0 in the corresponding Western calendar, i.e. that it would not end up changing the correspondence to 2006 (or any positive western year) after all. Furthermore, that page describes a minority, maybe off-by-1 interpretation due to Sun Yat-sen and mentions the same San Francisco Chinatown connection that our article does, but it seems to consider it to be the distinctly minority view. Also, by the stem/branch system, 4703 is year 23 of the current 60-year cycle which is 3/11 = Fire 1 / Dog = 丙 戌 = bingxu, and since we know that 2006 is the year of the dog, it seems this correspondence is much more solid. Finally, elsewhere in our article (under "Legendary beginnings") 2006 is equated with either 4643 or 4703.

So if I'm interpreting those references correctly (and if they're accurate) I believe that our article should mention that continuously-increasing year numbers are not widely used, but should otherwise be consistent in assigning 4703 to 2006, with a disclaimer and explanation about the possible 1- and 60-year discrepancies.

I'll make this change in a few days, but since I'm not knowledgeable about this stuff I thought I'd mention it here first in case anyone has an opposing view.

Steve Summit (talk) 07:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Sounds alright to me. Since very few ppl use the continuously numbered epoch anyway, I doubt there will be any objections to your proposed edits. --Sumple 11:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Okay, done. See new section Continuously-numbered years and new table under Correspondence between systems. -- Steve Summit (talk) 16:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I have lived in San Francisco, California all my life and I would like to point out that Chinese Americans in the United States use the epoch of 2698 BCE as the basis for numbering the years, and therefore Gregorian 2006 is numbered as 4704 and so forth for subsequent years. Type "Chinese New Year 4707" into Google and you will see that all the hits that come up refer to events occuring in January of 2009. Keraunos (talk) 05:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know if other Overseas Chinese communities all also use the same system for numbering the years as Chinese Americans do? Keraunos (talk) 05:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Something about this used to be in the article. Several epochs for continuously numbered years were used by Chinese Republican newspapers during the first decade of the 20th century. At the time, China was under the weakened control of the Empress Dowager Cixi, but the newspapers wanted to abolish the emperor system so did not want to use the official Era Name system. One of these epochs was 2698 BCE which was officially used by Sun Yat-sen to refer to the last year of the imperial calendar when he stated that its last day was the day before January 1, 1912. It has apparently been adopted by most overseas Chinese communities with the possible exception of those in southeast Asia. — Joe Kress (talk) 23:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

The Republic of China Era[edit]

This article seems to neglet the calendrical system used by the ROC, where in official business, the year is recorded as the XXth year of the Republic Era (民國XX年). I propose that this be added to this article. Davidhaha 16:51, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I rembmer writing about it. It should be in the "regnal years" section. --Sumple (Talk) 23:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Yep it's there:
"This system continued until the Republic of China, which counted years as Years of the Republic, beginning in 1912. Thus, 1912 is the 1st Year of the Republic, and 1948 the 37th. This system is still used for official purposes in Taiwan. For the rest of China, in 1949 the People's Republic of China chose to use the Common Era system (equivalently, AD/BC system), in line with international standards." --Sumple (Talk) 23:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Chinese zodiac[edit]

The meaning of word 'zodiac' ... In lots of paragraphs, the word 'zodiac' means the 'Western astrological sign' or the principle solar term..

However, 'The Chinese zodiac' paragraph use the same word to describe the twelve animals...

This need some cleanup.. -- 219.79.68.20 15:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

It was already pointed out above quite a while ago that '"Western astrological sign" is getting mixed up with "constellation" in the description of Chinese month sequencing'. For instance, I think the heading in the table under "Calendar rules" should be "constellation" or "zodiac constellation", not "zodiac sign"; all the links in that column point to the articles on the constellations, not to the articles on the astrological signs. Joriki 05:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I fixed the link to Scorpius, which pointed to Scorpius (the constellation) but said "Scorpio" (the sign), and to Capricornus, which had been a redirect. Joriki 05:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

section "celestial movement and seasons"[edit]

or whatever its called. how much does that have to do with the calendar? i propose deleting it. it also seems a bit verbose and after reading it, i didn't really get what point it was trying to make. it seems just a collection of quotes from ancient chinese literature that talks about astronomy. --Sumple (Talk) 11:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I have moved the section here because it does not directly relate to the Chinese calendar, and probably belongs on a page about Chinese astronomy or astrology. I've kept it on the talk page because it's a valuable collection, and should be added to the appropriate page:

Some celestial movements were widely used by the ancient farmers to determine the seasons before solar calendar came along. Some well known signs are listed below [citation needed]
  • 斗柄東指,天下皆春; 斗柄南指,天下皆夏; 斗柄西指,天下皆秋; 斗柄北指,天下皆冬 (source: Heguanzi 鵑冠子)
If the handle of Big Dipper points to east, the spring has arrived. Then it will point to south in summer, west in autumn and north in winter.
  • 農祥晨正 (source: Guo Yu 國语) [1]:
If a farmer steps out of the main entrance of the house (most likely facing south) in the morning, and sees the four stars in the Fong Xu (房宿) line up vertically into a straight line, spring has arrived and he can prepare to sow.
  • 孟春之月,日在營室 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
In the first month of spring, the sun is in Yingshi.
  • 孟春之月,旦,尾中 At dawn during the first month of spring, lunar lodge Wei is on the meridian.
  • 季春之月,旦,牽牛中; 仲秋之月,昏,牽牛中 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
At dawn during the last month of spring and at dusk during the second month of autumn, lunar lodge Qianniu is on the meridian.
  • 孟夏之月,旦,婺女中 (source: Li Yueling 禮月令)
At dawn during the first month of summer, lunar lodge Xunü is on the meridian.
  • 仲夏之月,旦,危中;孟冬之月,昏,危中 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
At dawn during the second month of summer and at the dusk during the first month of winter, lunar lodge Wei is on the meridian.
  • 仲夏之月,昏,亢中 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
At dusk during the second month of summer, lunar lodge Kang Xu is on the meridian.
  • 七月流火 (source: Shi Jing: Bin Feng: Qi Yue《诗经·豳风·七月》)[2][3]:
"In the 7th month, the Fire Star (Antares) drifts lower."
定之方中,作于楚宫 (source: Shi Jing: Yong Feng 诗墉风) In the Spring and Autumn period (春秋 770BC-476BC), "when lunar lodge Shi (室宿) was just on the meridian, they built the Chu Hall."
  • 季秋之月,昏,虚中 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
  • 宵中星虚,以殷仲秋 (source: Shang Shu Yao Dian 尚书尧典)
At dusk during the last month of autumn, lunar lodge Xu is on the meridian.
  • 仲冬之月,昏,東壁中 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
At dusk during the second month of winter, lunar lodge Bi is on the meridian.
  • 季冬之月,旦,氐中 (source: Liji: Yueling 禮月令)
At dawn during the last month of winter, lunar lodge Di is on the meridian.

Sumple (Talk) 12:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

These things are primarily related to Chinese seasons, even though I cannot say that they have nothing to do with the calendar.--Jusjih 15:27, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

citation needed: "Sino-Uighur"[edit]

"(or Sino-Uighur)"
I have never seen this term used to describe used in reference to a calendrical system. And it doesn't google. --CiteCop 17:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Google Chinese-Uighur. You'll find The Chinese-Uighur calendar as described in Islamic sources. — Joe Kress 06:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

weeks[edit]

The wikipedia article week states that the Chinese adopted a 7 day week c.600 AD, without specifically stating an origin. The Chinese calendar article states that the 7 day week was introduced in the 16th century by the Jesuits. Which is correct, and what was in place prior to the 7 day week? TomFooolery 22:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Templates convert dates into Chinese calendar[edit]

{{Chinese calendar}} —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yao Ziyuan (talkcontribs) 15:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC).

Named Months[edit]

I see names for months at...

What's that all about?

-- Sophroniscus 22:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Each Chinese month has not only one name. Many months have five or six names. But month names are rare used. The only common used month names are 正月 and 腊月, 冬月 sometimes also used, but rare. Other month names are absolutely rare used. HELLO, WORLD! 22:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Question?[edit]

Which Zodiac Year was A.D 638? All the internet thingies tell me which year was which only up to 1900. I'm looking for an animal name like "Year of the [blank]". Respond to my talk page cuz I'm gonna forget about this discussion page. -Working for Him 17:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

(Copied to User talk:Working for Him#Chinese calendar) According to Calendrica, AD 638 (after 24 January) was a wu-xu year, year 35 of the 60-year cycle according to Chinese calendars, hence a Yang Earth Dog year according to Chinese astrology. Obviously, either Chinese calendar needs a 60-year cycle with pinyin forms of the Earthly Branches and heavenly stems or the existing table in Chinese astrology needs them. — Joe Kress 23:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Sexagenary cycle has a complete cycle with pinyin forms. — Joe Kress 00:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Need help[edit]

Can somebody tell me how to describe "4. lunar month of 252 AD" (Sun Quan's death)? Sarazyn丁人LKDE 20:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Sun, Quan died in Siyue 4th of the first year of Shenfeng(May 21th, 252) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orienomesh-w (talkcontribs) 03:17, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

神凤元年四月廿六日 - the 26th day of the 4th month in the first year of Shenfeng (i.e. May 21st, 252 A.D.) -- Yejianfei (talk) 16:32, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Basis of solar terms[edit]

Are the solar terms based on the sidereal year or the tropical year? I'm guessing, from the references to equinoxes and solstices, that it's the tropical year, but the references to the zodiac signs and phrases like Every other jiéqì of the Chinese solar year is equivalent to an entry of the sun into a sign of the tropical zodiac (a principal term or cusp). makes it sound like it's based on the sideral year. Nik42 08:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC) Never mind, I found the answer in one of the references. It is indeed the tropical year Nik42 10:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

"Song of Solar Terms"[edit]

I've moved the "Song of Solar Terms" into the Solar term article where I feel is more specific to Solar Terms than the calendar in general. 60.50.255.96 (talk) 10:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Anno Flavi Imperatoris Sinarum vs. Anno Domini[edit]

According to one of the numbering systems that has been in use, 2009 AD is 4707 in the year of Huandi, or the Yellow Emperor. Since we have the Latin epithet 'Anno Domini', or 'AD', for the Gregorian calendar, we also need a Latin parallel for the Chinese lunisolar calendar. Let's call it 'Anno Flavi Imperatoris Sinarum', or 'AFIS', which literally means "in the year of the Yellow Emperor of China". Therefore, 2009 AD is also 4707 AFIS. --Roland 04:34, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Before this can be included in the article you must provide a reliable source where its use is mentioned. Nothing that you or any other editor invents is allowed in a Wikipedia article without citation. — Joe Kress (talk) 23:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Unnecessarily defensive! Did I say I want to put this in? Your extra energy can be spent on those religious items. --Roland 02:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
My misinterpretation was due to the Wikipedia guideline that an article's talk page can only be used for improving the article, thus I assumed you wanted this in the article. A talk page cannot be used to discuss the subject of the article per WP:Talk page guidelines. — Joe Kress (talk) 01:13, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
i. The idea's a western imposition. Just like how the Romans never actually used AUC, the Chinese actually dated (badly—that is, using inclusive counting and a lunar calendar with irregular intercalation) from the eras of their emperors, so much so that if you could find any historical Chinese use of the Yellow Emperor Era, that would be worth putting in the article. Afaik, they just periodically used the Yellow Emperor to align the era years without actually employing it.
ii. The stem-&-branch system could be configured into an Olympiad-style format or simply named. I'm sure some Jesuit or scholar explained the system in Latin (I.i, I.ii, I.iii... or animals plus the hours prima, secunda, tertia...?) but wouldn't know where to look for a source other than asking very nicely at the Vatican.
iii. The RoC established a permanent era name for the Chinese Republic now known as the Minguo calendar. Since this started in 1912, 2011 is in fact 民國百年. Since the French Republic actually called theirs the "Era of Liberty", AR or RS is still available for annō Reīpūblicæ [Sinārum] but of course the Chinese don't have much interest in Latin and just use a prefixed ROC when they're translating the idea. So this is the year ROC 100.
iv. As far as I know, the PRC has always used the 公元 (AD) system since assuming power in 1949. (The Minguo system above already uses the word "People" that differentiates their name from the ROC, plus it made things easier for the Russians.) You could make up a system where you dated a Commie Era (annō [Reīpūblicæ Populāris] Sinārum) from 1 October 1949 (中国62年, AS 62), dated "regnal years" from the paramount leaders (胡锦涛7年, annō Hu 7), or made up "regnal eras" from the announcements of their favored programs (河蟹6年, annō Harmōnīæ 6), but you'd be the only one knowing what you were talking about.
v. Your Latin needs work. Sinārum's "the Chinese". Contemporary Latin doesn't usually translate foreign names much (annō Huangdi or Huangdiī). Even if you did, in this case Latin would strongly prefer to see the adjective subordinate to the noun (Imperātor Flāvus, not flāvus imperātor) unless you're turning flāvus into the name Flavius. (And of course, Emperor Flavius has its own problems.) French and Italian both prefer to call the guy after a different word for yellow (galbinus) with somewhat less pleasant associations. Turn that into a noun and you've got Emperor Galba. (Although I'm curious if the secondary meaning of effeminate came before or after him. Further, the Yellow Emperor has been credited with introducing homo/bisexuality into China, though people don't really like to talk about that part.)
Regardless, Latin and Chinese and English all prefer shorter abbreviations than the one you're using. Rather than talk about the "Yellow Year" (especially in China, where "yellow" is a synonym for "perv"), they'd just call it the Chinese Era (中元, annō Sinārum or Sinæ). If anyone used it. Which they don't. ;) — LlywelynII 02:36, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Whoa. I stand corrected. Joe's link below shows that some Chinatown associations do use it. You should try to talk them into classing it up by adopting more Latin. Of course, they just say Lunar Year and annō Lūnæ doesn't work at all... lūnārī? lūnāticō? lūnāticōrum?
If we're thinking serious proposals, "Year of the Han" or "Year of the Hua" would probably be best since they supposedly date from Huangdi's union of the Jiang and Ji tribes, but they run into the same AH problems "Year of Huangdi" does. Back to AS? — LlywelynII 03:20, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


Objection.

  • i Latin names in English are usually used for traditional Western culture. English name for traditional Chinese culture should use transliteration from Chinese. Therefore, for the English translation of 黄帝纪元, the term Huangdi Jiyuan is a preferer term than Anno Flavi Imperatoris Sinarum.
  • ii Nowadays, the only living calendar era system for Chinese calendar is the 干支 system, for example, this year is 乙未年. The other calendar era systems have already died.

-- Yejianfei (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

10 and 12 year cycles[edit]

WHY has the administration of Wikipedia allowed the structure of this calendar to be totally erased saying nothing about 10 year cycle and 12 year cycle listed by names. Instead a puzzle is charted as a very incompetent sample of the calendar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.144.120.119 (talk) 01:56, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Sexagenary cycle lists both the 10 Celestial stems and the 12 Earthly Branches, as well as a four full 60-year cycles around the present (1804–2043). — Joe Kress (talk) 20:15, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Continuous Year[edit]

The continuous year such as 4701, 4702 are never used by Chinese today. It was invented by Tongmenghui. After the ROC is found, they throw it to the garbage can imediatly.--刻意(Kèyì) 02:08, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Your statement is incomplete. Republican newspapers used at least two continuous year numbering systems differing by over a thousand years around 1905. In 1912, Sun Yat-sen had to decide which one he should use to identify the preceding lunar year that was prematurely terminated when the ROC announced the adoption of the Gregorian calendar on January 1. Futhermore, two other continuous numbering systems are currently in use by Western scholars, both based on the 60-year cycle, that were used as early as the mid-19th century. None of the three are used in China, but all three are used outside of China. The one selected by Sun Yat-sen is currently used by many/most "Chinatowns" in English-speaking countries, such as San Francisco's Chinatown, where Lunar Year 4708 began on 14 February 2010.[4]Joe Kress (talk) 08:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Month 11 rule is not always true[edit]

"The sun always passes the winter solstice (enters Capricorn) during month 11."

After using the true motion of the sun, how can the sun always pass the winter solstice during month 11? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.131.122.208 (talkcontribs) 00:04, 17 February 2011

Month 11 is the base month of the Chinese calendar—the winter solstice (270°) must be in month 11, even if that causes other principal terms to be in the wrong month, for example, that may prevent yǔshuǐ (330°) from being in month 1. During most years all regular months contain a single principal term and any month without a principal term is an intercalary or leap month. However, during a few rare years two principal terms will be within a single month (usually in the first and last days of that month), which will prevent some neighboring months, like month 1, from containing their usual or "assigned" principal term (the next time this occurs will be in 2033–34). The true motion of the sun causes this aberration—if the mean motion of the sun along the ecliptic were used, as it was before 1645 (before the Qing dynasty), no month could ever have two principal terms. — Joe Kress (talk) 06:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

How many months are there in every 19 years of the Chinese calendar? There are 235 months. But there were 236 months in the 19 years from 1966 to 1984. Why? The cause must be the rule: the winter solstice (270°) must be in month 11. Month 11 rule is not always true and 1984 was the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.131.122.209 (talkcontribs) 06:06, 17 February 2011

Answer to above:
There are not always 235 months in 19 years. That rule was given up in the 6th century.
In 1984 the solstice in China was on Dec 22, which was the 1st day of the 11th month.
The modern rule works by in effect putting an intercalary month where it is needed to make the winter solstice be in the 11th month. For example, if in 2033 you made the non-principal-term month following the 7th month intercalary, the solstice would be in the 10th month, so the (first) non-principal-term month after the solstice is made intercalary instead and there is an intercalary 11th month.Stone-turner (talk) 10:31, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

What is the scientific or astronomical basis for the modern rule: the sun always passes the winter solstice during month 11? Month 11 rule is true for using the mean sun but not always for using the true sun.

(19x12+7)x29.5306>19x365.2422. Why 19x12+8=236? 19x12+7 is not a rule but a law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.36.190.204 (talkcontribs) 08:58, 17 February 2011

The rule ensures that the years don't drift against the seasons. It's one of many possible such rules. I'd personally prefer a rule that always places the northern summer solstice in month 5, because fewer months would then be displaced from their normal the principal term. I think month 11 is preferred because that is when as year called the sui begins. Karl (talk) 13:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Karl that the modern rule is due to the sui year beginning at the winter solstice. I have seen old articles that argue that month 11 is indeed the base month and not month 1, or more explicitly, that the jiéqì begin with dōngzhì (270°), not with lìchūn (315°). Although these ecliptic longitudes are based on the Western notion that 0° is the vernal equinox, I have seen lists of jiéqì that begin with dōngzhì as 0°. Nevertheless, the modern rule that dōngzhì must be in month 11 is probably that due to Liu Baolin, the former director about 1990 of the Purple Mountain Observatory near Nanjing, which is responsible for promulgating the traditional Chinese calendar. It doesn't matter which month is assigned a permanent jiéqì, if one is so defined, the Chinese calendar will not drift. — Joe Kress (talk) 00:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
As far as I know, during the Qing period the winter solstice was always in the 11th month. But the first and the second-month (equinox) primary terms were on the last days of the 12th and the 1st month respectively in 1851-52. Stone-turner (talk) 08:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

There were only 12 new moons between the two winter solstices in 1983 and 1984. But there were 13 new moons between the two winter solstices in 1984 and 1985. Why 1984 was a leap year but 1985 was not? If the winter solstice is not in month 11 only, does the year drift against the seasons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.36.190.204 (talkcontribs) 10:10, 17 February 2011

The Chinese calendar I have gives 13 months from the month of the 1983 solstice up but not including the month of the 1984 solstice. In 1984 both the new moon and the solstice were on December 22, China time. As the month starts at midnight, the solstice in in the month that started Dec 22 and so that month must be the 11th month, whatever the time of day of the new moon. Are you using data from some place that has the solstice the day before the new moon? Could you be confusing the start of the month with the time of the new moon?Stone-turner (talk) 14:47, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

According to the rule 1984 was a leap year indeed, and 19 years with 8 leap months occurred. According to the law (7 leap months or 235 months in every 19 years) 1984 was not a leap year but 1985 was. The rule is subjective but the law objective.

A: 29.5306、30 or 29 (days/month), 365.2422/29.5306=12.368、12 or 13 (months/year)

B: 29.5306/(365.2422-29.5306x12)=2.7155、3 or 2 (years)

C: Bx7=19.0082、19 or 20 (years)

D: 29.5306x235=6939.691>365.2422x19=6939.6018、6940 or 6939 (days)

E: 6939.6018/29.5306=234.997、235 or 234 (months/19 years)

1984 calendar (according to the rule)

01 正月 330° Pisces

02 二月 0° Aries

03 三月 30° Taurus

04 四月 60° Gemini

05 五月 90° Cancer

06 六月 120° Leo

07 七月 150° Virgo

08 八月 180° Libra

09 九月 210° Scorpio

10 十月 240° Sagittarius

11 闰月

12 冬月 270° Capricorn 300° Aquarius (principal term in the wrong month)

13 腊月 330° Pisces (principal term in the wrong month)

01 正月 1985-2-20

02 二月 0° Aries

03 三月 30° Taurus

04 四月 60° Gemini

05 五月 90° Cancer

06 六月 120° Leo

07 七月 150° Virgo

08 八月 180° Libra

09 九月 210° Scorpio

10 十月 240° Sagittarius

11 冬月 270° Capricorn

12 腊月 300° Aquarius

1984 calendar (according to the law)

01 正月 330° Pisces

02 二月 0° Aries

03 三月 30° Taurus

04 四月 60° Gemini

05 五月 90° Cancer

06 六月 120° Leo

07 七月 150° Virgo

08 八月 180° Libra

09 九月 210° Scorpio

10 十月 240° Sagittarius

11 冬月

12 腊月 270° Capricorn 300° Aquarius (principal term in the wrong month)

01 正月 330° Pisces 1985-1-21

02 闰月

03 二月 0° Aries

04 三月 30° Taurus

05 四月 60° Gemini

06 五月 90° Cancer

07 六月 120° Leo

08 七月 150° Virgo

09 八月 180° Libra

10 九月 210° Scorpio

11 十月 240° Sagittarius

12 冬月 270° Capricorn

13 腊月 300° Aquarius

According to the rule there were 2 principal terms in the wrong month (dahan in month 11 and yushui in month 12), but according to the law there was one (dongzhi in month 12). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.61.77.226 (talkcontribs) 01:32, 18 February 2011

I don't know where you got that, but the official calendar 新编万年历; 1840~2050年 has the intercalary month after the 10th month, not after the 1st month. Where did you get that? It doesn't help at all in explaining where the intercalary month is. What western dates do you have for the winter 1984 solstice and the nearest new moon? You seem to think the winter solstice is on the last day of the month, not the first.Stone-turner (talk) 04:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I do think the winter solstice is on the first day of month 12, not the first day of month 11. 1984 mod 19 = 8, the year was not a leap year. 1985 mod 19 = 9, the year was a leap year. At the present time, the leap year should be Y mod 19 = 0、3、6、9、11、14 or 17. The year 2033 mod 19 = 0, it is a leap year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.61.77.226 (talkcontribs) 01:49, 18 February 2011

To properly sign your comment, type four tildes ~~~~ which Wikipedia will replace with your IP address (because you are not yet logged in) and the time and date at Greenwich (UTC). — Joe Kress (talk) 09:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


2033 calendar (270°dongzhi in month 11)

01 正月 330° yushui

02 二月 0° chunfen

03 三月 30° guyu

04 四月 60° xiaoman

05 五月 90° xiazhi

06 六月 120° dashu

07 七月 150° chushu

08 八月

09 九月 180° qiufen

10 十月 210° shuangjiang

11 冬月 240° xiaoxue 270°dongzhi

12 闰月

13 腊月 300° dahan (330° yushui)

There are 3 zhongqi in the wrong month: qiufen in month 9, shuangjiang in month 10 and xiaoxue in month 11.


2033 calendar (270°dongzhi in month 10)

01 正月 330° yushui

02 二月 0° chunfen

03 三月 30° guyu

04 四月 60° xiaoman

05 五月 90° xiazhi

06 六月 120° dashu

07 七月 150° chushu

08 闰月

09 八月 180° qiufen

10 九月 210° shuangjiang

11 十月 240° xiaoxue 270°dongzhi

12 冬月

13 腊月 300° dahan (330° yushui)

There is 1 zhongqi in the wrong month: dongzhi in monnth 10. 120.42.98.123 (talk) 03:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


2318-19 calendar (270° Capricorn in month 11)

01 正月 330° Pisces

02 二月 0° Aries

03 三月 30° Taurus

04 四月 60° Gemini

05 五月 90° Cancer

06 六月 120° Leo

07 七月 150° Virgo

08 八月 180° Libra

09 九月 210° Scorpio

10 十月 240° Sagittarius

11 闰月

12 冬月 270° Capricorn 300° Aquarius

13 腊月 330° Pisces

01 正月 0° Aries (The first day = 2319-2-21, zhongqi on 29 month 1 = 2319-3-21, the last day of the month = 2319-3-22)

02 二月 (The first day = 2319-3-23)

03 三月 30° Taurus

There are three zhongqi in the wrong month: 300° Aquarius in month 11, 330° Pisces in month 12 and 0° Aries in month 1.

2318-19 calendar (270° Capricorn in month 12)

01 正月 330° Pisces

02 二月 0° Aries

03 三月 30° Taurus

04 四月 60° Gemini

05 五月 90° Cancer

06 六月 120° Leo

07 七月 150° Virgo

08 八月 180° Libra

09 九月 210° Scorpio

10 十月 240° Sagittarius

11 冬月

12 腊月 270° Capricorn 300° Aquarius

01 正月 330° Pisces 2319-1-22 the first day of the month

02 二月 0° Aries

03 闰月

04 三月 30° Taurus

There are one zhongqi in the wrong month: 270° Capricorn in month 12. 61.131.122.44 (talk) 03:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


In 1965 the first day of month 11 of the Chinese calendar was on November 23 (Julian day 2439088) and in 1984 the first day of month 11 of the Chinese calendar should be on November 23 (Julian day 2446028), 2446028 - 2439088 = 6940 (days) = 235 (months) = 19 (years), but it was one month late on December 22 (Julian day 2446057), 2446057 - 2439088 = 6969 (days) = 236 (months) = 19 years + 1 month. In 2003 the first day of 11th month of the CC was on Julian day 2452968, 2452968 - 2446028 = 6940 (days) = 235 (months) = 19 (years), 2452968 - 2446057 = 6911 (days) = 234 (months) = 19 years - 1 month, 236+234 = 470 (months) = 19 years + 1 month + 19 year - 1 month = 38 years. Solar eclipses of November 23, 1946 (Saros 122), 1965 (Saros 132) and 2003 (Saros 152) all took place on the first day of month 11 of the CC, but the solar eclipse of November 22, 1984 (Saros 142) occurred on the first day of leap month 10 of the CC. What was the cause?110.84.25.196 (talk) 14:16, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


In 2014 and 2033 the first day of 11th month of the CC was on Julian day 2457014 (December 22) and is on Julian day 2463924 (November 22) respectively, 2463924 - 2457014 = 6910 (days) = 234 (months) = 19 years - 1 month. In 2052 the first day of month 11 of the CC is on Julian day 2470893, 2470893 - 2463924 = 6969 (days) = 236 (months) = 19 years + 1 month, 234 + 236 = 470 (months) = 19 years - 1 month + 19 year + 1 month = 38 years. What is the cause? It is the true motion of the sun! 61.131.122.64 (talk) 04:03, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Chinese calendar was lunisolar calendar, and the month corresponding to Solar terms.

But, after True sun, the corresponding can't be holding. So, they turn to hold the correponding between the Winter solstice and the first year in calendrical year.

235 months in 19 years is a rule in "mean moon and mean sun" ages, can't explain the calendar in "True moon and True sun" age.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 02:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Chinese calendar is a conservative calendar. Almost all calendars except Chinese calendar/Tibet calendar are reformed to regulatory calendar. We still insist on following the astronomical phenomena.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 03:11, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Epoch[edit]

2012 claims to be 4708/4709 while this article claims 2012 to be 4710. Which is it? --Svippong 16:26, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't find 4708/4709 in the article 2012. The lead of this article has had "4709 (or 4649 or 4710)" for the Chinese year beginning in 2011, which is wrong. Those years apply to 2012. Also, some editor increased all years in the Correspondence between systems section, changing their epoch form 2697 BC to 2698 BC without changing the notes below the table. Three epochs are used, 2698 BC, 2697 BC, and 2637 BC as discussed in Continuously numbered years. The first epoch is used by expatriate Chinese and popularized by Sun Yat-sen, the second and third are used by those who insist that the epoch must begin at the first year of a Sexagenary cycle, either the first or 61st year of Huangdi's reign according to many, but not all sources. This article was apparently standardized on 2697 BC, demoting the other two epochs. Because the Western calendar does not have a year zero, simply add the epoch to the current year. So 2012+2698=4710, 2012+2697=4709, or 2012+2637=4649. I'm updating this article appropriately, keeping the epoch 2697 BC as primary for now. — Joe Kress (talk) 03:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Happy Chinese New Year-- a fit time to discuss the topic, I suppose.
Joe, you changed the content of Sun Yat-sen's letter. While the year date remains the same, do you know which he actually said?
I wonder what the argument is for 2698 BC as opposed to 2697 BC and if the "first year" 元年 starts before or after the beginning of his reign. Historically, after seems more common. But anyway, for the article, 2697 BC, a cyclic year 1, seems better for the start of the epoch. Stone-turner (talk) 09:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I take Sun Yat-sen's statement from Chinese history: a manual by Endymion Porter Wilkinson, who states:
On January 2 1912, the provisional president of the provisional government, Sun Yatsen brought the confusion to an end by decreeing that the 12th day of the 11th lunar month of the year of the Yellow Emperor 4609 was new year's eve 1911 according to the solar (Gregorian) calendar and that January 1st 1912 was the first day of the Republic, which would henceforth use the solar calendar and would count years succesively from 1912.
This is the only detailed description of Sun's statement that I have found. Wilkinson does not state how the decree was transmitted and some sources state that it was transmitted on January 1.
The confusion Wilkinson mentions is that least two opinions for the birth of the Yellow Emperor, 2698 BC and 2491 BC, were used in Republican newspapers (I have seen one other epoch used by another newspaper but don't remember where). I have also searched for Huangdi's epoch in books, but only those published during the 19th and early 20th centuries mention it. They usually refer to the eopch as the first year of his reign rather than his birth. None of these books count successive years from an epoch.
Western scholars started numbering sexagenary cycles during the 19th century, placing the epoch within the reign of Huangdi, the Yellow Emperor and one of the five legendary rulers, because he is reputed to have invented both a calendar and the sexagenary cycle. The year of his accession to the throne varies slightly depending on the source, ranging from 2704 BC[5] to 2688 BC,[6] but most sources place his first year at 2697 BC.[7][8][9][10] The eminent sinologist Herbert Allen Giles was a notable exception who placed the first year of Huangdi at 2698 BC in his works.[11] [12]Joe Kress (talk) 22:40, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I wonder if there is a confusion between the year a reign started and the first year of a reign. For example, if Huangdi started reigning in 2698 BC, according the the practice of the classic Spring and Autumn Annal and the Ming and Qin rulers, the "first year" 元年 of the epoch would have been the following 甲子 [1]year 2697 BC, and this 2697 BC is generally accepted as the "first year". But Giles, understanding this practice, wrote that 2698 BC was the "first year" for his western audience in deliberate accordance with the modern western usage rather than the normal Chinese usage. Perhaps Sun also deliberately used 2698 BC in reaction against the normal imperial usage.Stone-turner (talk) 00:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for misleading you, but "first year" is the terminology I used because some sources just stated a year without clarification, and I used it too often. But most sources were more specific regarding what happened during the stated year. Giles (2698 BC) and Mayers (2697 BC) both used "accession", Lister and Pott (2697 BC) used "ascended to the throne", and Macgowan (2697 BC) used "elected ... to supreme power". — Joe Kress (talk) 07:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Looking in google books at Mayers, Pt. III p. 388, for at least the Qing emperors I checked, he puts the accession year the year after the death of the previous emperor. For example, Sheng Tsu reigned 1661/2/5 to 1722/12/20, but Mayers lists his accession year as 1662 and that of She Tsung as 1723. Wen Tsung reigned from 1850/3/9 to 1861/8/22, but Mayers lists his accession year as 1851, and that of the "reigning Sovereign" as 1862. But the starts of the year names are as Mayers wrote. I could not figure out how to look inside Giles' book, but in the case of Wen Tsung, etc., does Giles use "accession" to mean the accession upon the death of the previous emperor, as 1661, 1722, 1850 and 1861, or to mean something else? If he used the actual year the reign started, as opposed to Mayers, that may account for the difference in the Yellow Emperor's accession year also. I think Mayers took the 元年 of the era 年号、or earlier, the 元年 of the reign year, to be the accession year, although it is not necessarily so. I would expect Mayers and Giles to be one year off for many other reigns also. Stone-turner (talk) 08:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
I checked the list of monarchs of Mayers and Giles side-by-side, and their accession years are virtually identical from the Hia/Hsia/Xia dynasty to the Ts'ing/Ch'ing/Qing dynasty, including the four emperors of the Qing dynasty that you cite. However, the first eight of the nine rulers they list in The Age of Five Rulers differ by one year, with Giles' accessions being one year earlier than those given by Mayers. Wikipedia's List of Chinese monarchs gives the reigns of the Qing emperors as beginning during the years you cite, not the years one year later given by both Mayers and Giles. Only the reigns of Qing emperors beginning in 1616 and 1796 are the same in all three lists. The same applies to Ming emperors, with reigns beginning one year earlier in the Wikipedia list than those by Mayers and Giles except for 1368 and 1620. Most of Wikipedia's list of five emperors (rulers) have reign years that differ from those of Mayers or Giles. These legendary reigns are only given by years, never by year/month/day, so an analysis of Qing emperor 'accessions' are not really comparable to legendary ruler accessions. — Joe Kress (talk) 21:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the trouble to check out Giles. I guess my theory that he consistently used actual accession years will not work. I will keep my eyes open for information about the Yellow Emperor's epoch, though.
As for the Ming and Qing cases you mentioned where the accession years and epoch 元年 are the same, I looked at them, and they can all be explained. 1368 and 1616 were the accession of dynasty founders (or usurpers), who of course would not use their rival's 年号 and in fact proclaimed their reign within the first few days of the year. In 1620, Taichang reigned only a month before his death, so his son exceptionally made the 7th through 12th months of that year his 元年 (see fn. 1 on his page). In 1796, Jiaqing's reign started on New Year's Day with the resignation of his father. I think in principle the Chinese dates should normally be used, don't you? 9 February 1796 and 1796/1/1 do not give the same information. I am not sure how it would work on Wikipedia, though. Stone-turner (talk) 06:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

The Winter solstice for 2697BC is the epoch, and 2012 is 4710HE.

There're two Dongyue 13th in the first year of Taichu(太初元年).

Actually, in the first year of Taichu, there're 15 months, Shiyue I, Dongyue I, Layue I, Zhengyue, Eryue, Sanyue, Siyue, Wuyue, Liuyue, Qiyue, Bayue, Jiuyue, Shiyue II, Dongyue II, Layue II.

There's same issue in Huangdi Era.

From the winter solstice of 2698BC(for 2697BC) to the winter solstice of 105BC(for 104BC), 2593 years;

From the winter solstice of 105BC(for 104BC) to the Zhengyue 1st of 103BC, 1 year;

From Zhengyue 1st of 103BC to Zhengyue 1st of 1AD, 103 years;

From Zhengyue 1st of 1AD, to zhengyue first 1st of 2012, 2011 years;

Sum up, it's 4708 years; But, if you trace back with the calendar from Zhengyue, it's 4708 years and 2 months. It means that there're only 2 month in the first year.

Huangdi Era is not suitable for use in the years before the first year of Taichu. The calendar is too anarchy.


Orienomesh-w (talk) 06:50, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

So, in Taichu when they changed the start of the year from the Minor Snow 小雪 month to the present Rainwater 雨水 month they had a 15-month year? Thanks for the information. I knew that they moved the start of the year several times, and I had wondered how they managed it when they made it later. What period did they start the year in the Minor Snow month? I knew that Huangdi started the year in the Minor Snow month, but I did not know about it being used later also. Stone-turner (talk) 04:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Hungdi's Calendar, Zhuanxu's Calendar, Xia's Calendar, Yin's Calendar, Zhou's Calendar, Lu's Calendar is the calendar of the same age. Not related to the real dynasty(except Zhou's and Lu's). Those calendar chose different benchmark.

Huangdi's, Zhou's and Lu's chose the Winter Solstice as a benchmark, and set the month with Winter Soslstice as the first month of a year.

Yin's chose the winter solstice as a benchmark, and set the month with winter solstice as the last month of a year.

Xia's chose the Vernal beginning as a benchmark, and set the nearest day with dark moon as the beginning of a year.

Zhuanxu's chose the Vernal beginning as a benchmark, and set the month before the vernal beginning as the beginning of a year.Qin's calendar is the same as Zhuanxu's. But, the year beginning is moved to Shiyue(Maybe Shiyue is the birthmonth of Qin dynasty)

The epoch is defined by the Taoism, just because the winter solstice meet the day with dark moon, and the year is Jiazi.

The Zhengyue 1st was defined as the beginning of the year at Wuyue of the first year of Taichu.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 04:41, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

When you wrote "Huangdi" I thought you meant the "First Emperor 始皇帝" Did you mean the Yellow Emperor? By the way, this is why in English you often need the English meaning and the characters to make sense.

What is the word (in characters) that you are translating as "benchmark"?

You wrote "Qin's calendar is the same as Zhuanxu's. But, the year beginning is moved to Shiyue(Maybe Shiyue is the birthmonth of Qin dynasty)" So did the year start with Shiyue (十月) during Qin and also during the Han until Taichu?

You wrote: "Zhuanxu's chose the Vernal beginning as a benchmark, and set the month before the vernal beginning as the beginning of a year" I am not sure what that means. Does it mean that the Vernal Beginning 立春 is always in the first month of the year (that the year starts at the dark moon before 立春), or that 立春 is always in the second month in the year (in the month after the first month of the year)? Either way it seems strange because 立春 is not a central solar term 中氣. Or was it different then?

How would you describe the benchmark and the beginning of the year in the period from Taichu to 1645? Maybe that will help me understand your wording. Stone-turner (talk) 12:43, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

According to ancient legend, Huangdi is a chief of a tribe in Central Plains.

"First Emperor 始皇帝" is Yin Zheng, the founding emperor of Qin dynasty.

Huangdi is a Proper noun, we may know that it's a name of a person or dynasty by context. It's unnecessary to expaint in this article. For it's a article about the calendar, not about the legend. We do not care who is Augustus, when we read the article about the Gregorian calendar. I still do not care who is Gregory.

The solar terms are established little by little. two solstices(夏至、冬至) and two equinoxes(春分、秋分) came first, and then 4-beginnings(立春、立夏、立秋、立冬) came. In Taichu calendar, we start to use the 12 nodes and midpoints of the solar terms in the calendar. The calendars in Zhou dynasty can't use the solar terms in Han dynasty, For Zhou is earlier than Han for several hundreds years.

It's benchmark to check if we need the 13th month.

From the first yeat of Taichu to 1645, the benchmark is the midpoints of the solar terms, if the bias of the midpoints over half month, a month should be intercalary.

And the beginning of the year is Zhengyue 1st.

The lunisolar calendar in the western, balance the calendrical year and solar year by add the intercalary month before/after the bench mark.(In Hebrew calendar, VE is the benchmark, and the full-month day after VE is always in Nissan).

Chinese calendar , balance the months and solar terms, by add the intercalary month between two common months.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 02:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Strange Month Names[edit]

− − Orienomesh-w,

− − You have in the past few days done a lot of work on this article. There is a lot of detail about specific days, and you discuss the 2033-34 matter. However, much of your terminology is completely different from what is used elsewhere on Wikipedia, or even from normal usage anywhere.

− − First, you give the names of the months 11th month 十一月 and 12th month 十二月 as Dōng Yuè and Là Yuè . I am curious about those. What are the characters for them? But I think still it would be better to use shí​yī ​yuè 十一月and Shí​èr ​yuè 十二月as those are almost always used.

− − The translations of the names of the Chinese months are also strange. As this is the English Wikipedia, why use old Latin month names instead of English month names? Calling "January" "Januarius" doesn't have any meaning. Even more, what is the relation between the 11th month and January (or Januarius)? Often they don't overlap at all, as at the end of 2013. For later, I suppose "Quintilis" can translate "五月", but why bother? Just translating as "11th month," "12th month," "5th month" etc. would make more sense and is what is almost always done.

− (I am also curious-- WS is "winter solstice," but what are GC, RW, GR, GF, GH, LH, FD, and LS?)

− − − Some of your other terminology is not ordinary English, for example your "civil year."(What is the term you are thinking of in characters?) "Civil year" means that is the one used by the government, which in this case would be Jan. 1 to Dec. 31 in the Gregorian calendar. Perhaps you should call it the "calendar year." That ordinarily it means the year from 1/1 to the day before the next 1/1 in whatever calendar you are using. It is often used in contrast to the "financial year" (for example starting in October) or the year starting with 立春, etc.

− − You call the year starting with the 11th month the "calendar year." you seem to mean "the calendar that calendrists use to construct the calendar," but as I mentioned above, that is not what it means in English. I have seen it called the "astronomical year." Maybe that would be better. Stone-turner (talk) 11:04, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

− − The Shiyi Yue ans Shier Yue is used commonly after computer application. But, in paper age, the calendar is marked with "冬月"、"腊月". No one called "腊八节" as "十二八节".

− − And, "冬月","腊月" is better choice for calendar year. "十一月","十二月" comes before "二月" ? Maybe we have to expain it with long words.

− − I try to make the calendar Easier to understand. But, we can't skirt around the Sui begins vs Nian begins, first month w/o MST between 11th months.

− − So, I changed the expression. Make a distinction between Calendar-maker year and Civil-calendar year.

− − Civil year is "民用年", just as the mean in the Hebrew calendar. Not just Jan 1-Dec 31.

− − the order number may cause misunderstand. so it's not a good choice. for example, Duanwu of 2012 is not in the fifth month of 2012. And, the fifth month in calendar year is not the fifth month in civil year.

− − The original mean of December is the tenth month. so I used it.

− − astronomical year is "回归年". A calendar year is the time between two dates with the same name in a calendar. So, it may be used for the time between two "冬月朔".

− − Orienomesh-w (talk) 13:19, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

− − In Hebrew calendar, the distinction between ecclesiastical year and civil year make things easy. We should learn form it.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 13:33, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

− − Orienomesh-w

− − Thank you for your answer. By the way, thank you for putting the characters in for so many of your tables. I can get from character to meaning easily enough with a dictionary if I do not know a word, but if I only have the romanization (alphabet) word, I can only guess at the characters and see if it works, especially for technical terms. So I have no idea what Duanwu is.

− You wrote: "The Shiyi Yue ans Shier Yue is used commonly after computer application. But, in paper age, the calendar is marked with "冬月"、"腊月"."

− However, "Eleventh month" and "twelfth month" have been the standard month names for almost all the time for the past 3,000 plus years. For instance, the Spring and Autumn Annals 春秋 has 十有一月 and 十有二月 (腊 is not used at all), and the 19th-century long-term calendars 万年書 used 十一月and十二月. Of course all kinds of other names have been used as well, and apparently now 腊 is popular for the 12th month. But I think for this article we should stick with the standard names, not currently popular names. By the way are terms like 子月ever used as dates? For example can you say 子月廿六日?

− − I noticed you changed the names of the month to the modern number correspondences (六月 as June, etc.). That is certainly a lot clearer than before. However, the standard English translation of the months of the lunar calendar are "First month," "Second month," etc. That helps when you are reading something that has been translated something because you know which calendar is being used. Liu Baolin of the Purple Mountain Observatory uses "First month," etc. in his papers, and so does the paper at http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/calendar/chinese.html. In particular, the month of the winter solstice is the "eleventh month."

− − I still think your use of "calendar year" and "civil year" is strange in English.

− − You wrote: "Civil year is "民用年", just as the mean in the Hebrew calendar. Not just Jan 1-Dec 31." "In Hebrew calendar, the distinction between ecclesiastical year and civil year make things easy. We should learn form it." In Israel, the civil year is the Gregorian year, and the ecclesiastical year is that based on the lunar year. So also, in China the first month of the "civil year" is一月, not 正月. Of course, if we were writing a historical paper, the "civil calendar" and the lunar calendar would be the same, but a lot of this page deals with modern things.

− − "Calendar year" might be a good term for the year starting with the 11th month, except that it already has a different meaning in English. (What is the Chinese term you are trying to translate?) Why say the "calendar year" is the time between two 冬月朔? It could just as easily, and more naturally, be the time between two 正月朔. When we are using the Gregorian calendar and say something like "the beginning of the calendar year," we do not mean the time between two dates with the same name, as Nov. 1 to Nov. 1, we mean "Jan. 1." Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a standard term for a year starting with the 11th month. Liu has to use the awkward statement "one Eleventh month (inclusive) to the next Eleventh month (exclusive)." If you can come up with a good term, great.

− − − You wrote: "astronomical year is "回归年". "回归年" is normally translated as "solar year" or strictly speaking "tropical year" so that is why I suggested "astronomical year," which at least does not have a standard meaning. But maybe you can think of something better. Stone-turner (talk) 06:35, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

− − You're wrong about the Hebrew calendar. The civil year start at Tishrei 1, and the ecclesiastical year start at Nissan 1. No concern with Gregorian year.

− − I know the words in Spring and Autumn Annals. But, it's not a Calendar. "腊月" is the standard name of the last month of a Nian. Just as "March","April","May","June"...

− − NUS is not familiar with Chinese culture.

− − All people say so, and all paper calendar mark so.

− − Orienomesh-w (talk) 10:13, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

− − Even, "Zhengyue", "Eryue"... are better than "the first month","the second month"...

Orienomesh-w (talk) 10:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

− − Orienomesh-w

− − Your translation of "calendrical year" for "calendar-calculating year" is at least a sensible translation. But it is very confusing to talk about the "calendrical year 2014, etc. starting with 十一月, or even 冬月. It is simply not used by anyone. It is the 年that is used.

− − You wrote "I know the words in Spring and Autumn Annals. But, it's not a Calendar." The "Spring and Autumn Annals" is not a calendar--certainly we don't have any calendars from the 8th-5th cent. BC, but it does show that the standard month names at that time were were "11th month" and "12th month" . Furthermore, the Qing-period long-term calendars 万年書 and the 20th-century official calendars 二百年历表 : 1821-2020年 and 新编万年历: 1840~2050年 also use 十一月 and 十二月. I have copies of some of their pages. Maybe recently 冬月 and 腊月 have become popular for printed calendars, but one can hardly say that the names "eleventh month 十(有)一月" and "twelfth month 十(有)二月" were influenced by computers!

− − But for the purpose of Wikipedia, the problem of English names is much more important. You wrote "Even, "Zhengyue", "Eryue"... are better than "the first month","the second month"…" Why? I really don't understand that. This is the English Wikipedia, for people who read English, and for most of them "Zhengyue", "Eryue" mean absolutely nothing. You are even erasing the 正月、二月、五月、etc. that someone put the trouble to write in. Many people who know some Chinese characters would like to know the characters for the months and other terms. Why did you erase them? Are you afraid that someone will discover that  Eryue is 二月 and means "2nd month"? Besides, I see absolutely no reason why not to use "2nd month," etc. Liu Baolin 刘宝琳, chief calendarist at the Purple Mountain Observatory 中国科学院紫金山天文台 uses "Second month," etc. (the Eleventh month being the Winter Solstice month) in his English papers--I have them in front of me. Why can't you use them? Also, it has been used in Wikipedia until now. Why change it? In the lunar calendar that you posted, "二月" is the 2nd month, not the fourth, etc. Furthermore, it is a small thing, but when you are talking about holidays, dates like "Wuyue 5th", "Qiyue 7th", "Jiuyue 9th" don't show the doubling of the number like"5th month 5th day", etc. do.

− − In the text you wrote "There's no doubt that the calendrical year from 2012-12-21 is the 2117th calendrical year of Chinese calendar, and the civil year from 2013-2-10 is the 2117th civil year of Chinese calendar." But it is not the only one that is used. You simply just removed all the discussion of other years.

− − The basic problem is that you simply ignore everything that has been written on the subject for your own ideas.Stone-turner (talk) 14:33, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

− − Transliterating the proper noun, is a customary rule. Eryue means "二月",not the second month. Just like December means December, not the tenth month.Orienomesh-w

− − In Hebrew calendar, Hajrah calendar, Jalaali calendar, the name of month is by transliterating, Why in Chinese calendar by free translation?

− (talk) 04:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

− In Chinese environment, 十二月、一月 means December/January, and 腊月、正月 means Layue and Zhengyue. And 年前、年后 means before/after Spring, and before/after new year in Geogrian calendar must be called as 元旦前、元旦后.

− − It's beyond 刘宝琳's control.

Orienomesh-w (talk) 05:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

"Calendrical year"? Never before! Do you know what it means by Layue 8, 2013? It is sui or tropical year that is used to determine... If there are 12 months (including neither of the 11th months or Dongyue) in a sui, the sui is a leap sui and the first month without... and the year... is a leap year! --Q5968661 (talk) 14:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Here are the rules for the Chinese calendar.

− −

Rule 1 Calculations are based on the meridian 120°East.

Rule 2 The Chinese day starts at midnight.

Rule 3 The day on which a new Moon occurs is the first day of the new month.

Rule 4 The December solstice falls in month 11. A suì is a leap suì if there are 12 complete months between the two 11th months at the beginning and end of the suì.

Rule 5 In a leap suì, the first month that does not contain a zhongqì is the leap month, rùnyuè. The leap month takes the same number as the previous month.

117.27.134.28 (talk) 03:13, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

− − Sui is the day of winter solstice to the day of the next winter solstice. So, there're 355 or 366 days in a sui. Runsui should be a sui with 366 days. 岁者,遂也。三百六十六日一周天,万物毕死,故为一岁也

Orienomesh-w (talk) 03:45, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

请不要再固执己见,把十一月当January、把天干地支六十甲子纪日当week解,还搞出一个多余的历算年来。其实农历并不是什么值得国人骄傲的东西,单从它的名称来说就有点让人啼笑皆非。183.250.0.247 (talk) 00:19, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


This section has been repeatedly deleted, which is against Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Stone-turner (talk) 13:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

About the calendars(古六历) before Taichu calendar[edit]

The calendars before Taichu calendar is without the solid evidences.

The frame of them is presumed by the information in the historical records. Such as dark moon, solar eclipse, stem-branches.

So, the descrition about the calendar before Taichu calendar is not reliable.

Basically, Huangdi's calendar, Zhou's calendar, Lu's calendar is regard as winter solstice first(天正). The last darkmoon day before the winter solstice is the first day of a year(The first year contains winter solstice).

Yin's calendar is regard as perihelion(coldest) first(地正). The first darkmoon day after the winter solstice is the first day of a year.(The last month contains winter solstice)

Xia's calendar is regard as vernal beginning first(人正). the darkmoon day near to the Vernal beginning is the first day of a year(The vernal beginning is between the last and first fullmonth-days )

Zhuanxu's calendar is regard as vernal begining first. The last darkmoon day before the vernal beginning is the first day of a year(The first month include vernal begining).

Orienomesh-w (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

The relationship between solar year and months[edit]

a solar year always contains 11 or 12 whole-months, and 2 parts. But, it the winter solstice or the next winter solstice is just the midnight of the darkmoon day, the solar year will contain 12 whole-month and a part.


regard winter sostice as a point,

11 whole-months and 2 parts 12 whole-months and a part 12 whole-months asn 2 parts
solar year 379 0 221

regard winter solstice as a day,

11 whole-months and 2 parts 12 whole-months and a part 12 whole-months and 2 parts
solar year 356 42 202


Solar year Days days of first part days of whole month days of second part
1810 365 14 326 25
1811 366 4 355 7
1812 365 22 325 18
1813 365 12 324 29
1814 365 1 354 10
1815 365 19 325 21
1816 366 8 355 3
1817 365 26 325 14
1818 365 16 325 24
1819 365 5 355 5
1820 366 25 325 16
1821 365 13 325 27
1822 365 2 354 9
1823 365 21 324 20
1824 366 10 354 2
1825 365 28 325 12
1826 365 17 325 23
1827 365 7 354 4
1828 366 26 325 15
1829 365 14 325 26
1830 365 4 354 7
1831 365 23 324 18
1832 366 12 354 0
1833 365 30 324 11
1834 365 19 325 21
1835 365 8 355 2
1836 366 27 325 14
1837 365 16 325 24
1838 365 5 355 5
1839 365 24 325 16
1840 366 14 324 28
1841 365 2 354 9
1842 365 21 324 20
1843 365 10 354 1
1844 366 29 325 12
1845 365 17 325 23
1846 365 7 354 4
1847 365 26 325 14
1848 365 15 325 25
1849 366 5 353 8
1850 365 22 325 18
1851 365 11 354 0
1852 365 30 325 10
1853 366 19 326 21
1854 365 8 355 2
1855 365 27 325 13
1856 365 17 325 23
1857 366 6 354 6
1858 365 24 324 17
1859 365 13 324 28
1860 365 2 354 9
1861 366 21 325 20
1862 365 9 355 1
1863 365 29 325 11
1864 365 18 325 22
1865 366 8 354 4
1866 365 26 324 15
1867 365 15 324 26
1868 365 4 354 7
1869 366 23 324 19
1870 365 11 354 0
1871 365 30 325 10
1872 365 19 326 20
1873 366 9 355 2
1874 365 27 325 13
1875 365 17 324 24
1876 365 6 354 5
1877 366 24 325 17
1878 365 12 325 28
1879 365 2 354 9
1880 365 21 325 19
1881 366 10 355 1
1882 365 29 324 12
1883 365 18 325 22
1884 365 7 354 4
1885 365 26 324 15
1886 366 15 325 26
1887 365 3 355 7
1888 365 22 325 18
1889 365 12 325 28
1890 366 1 355 10
1891 365 19 325 21
1892 365 9 354 2
1893 365 28 324 13
1894 366 17 324 25
1895 365 5 354 6
1896 365 24 325 16
1897 365 13 325 27
1898 366 3 354 9
1899 365 21 325 19
1900 365 10 355 0
1901 365 29 325 11
1902 366 19 324 23
1903 365 7 354 4
1904 365 25 325 15
1905 365 15 325 25
1906 366 4 355 7
1907 365 22 325 18
1908 365 12 325 28
1909 365 1 355 9
1910 366 20 325 21
1911 365 9 353 3
1912 365 27 325 13
1913 365 16 325 24
1914 366 5 355 6
1915 365 23 326 16
1916 365 13 325 27
1917 365 3 354 8
1918 365 22 324 19
1919 366 11 354 1
1920 365 29 324 12
1921 365 18 324 23
1922 365 7 354 4
1923 366 26 325 15
1924 365 14 326 25
1925 365 4 355 6
1926 365 23 325 17
1927 366 13 324 29
1928 365 1 354 10
1929 365 20 324 21
1930 365 9 354 2
1931 366 28 324 14
1932 365 16 325 24
1933 365 5 355 5
1934 365 24 326 15
1935 366 14 325 27
1936 365 3 354 8
1937 365 22 324 19
1938 365 11 354 0
1939 366 29 325 12
1940 365 17 325 23
1941 365 7 354 4
1942 365 26 325 14
1943 366 15 325 26
1944 365 4 354 7
1945 365 23 325 17
1946 365 12 325 28
1947 366 1 354 11
1948 365 19 325 21
1949 365 8 355 2
1950 365 27 325 13
1951 366 17 325 24
1952 365 5 355 5
1953 365 24 325 16
1954 365 14 324 27
1955 365 3 354 8
1956 366 22 324 20
1957 365 10 354 1
1958 365 29 325 11
1959 365 18 325 22
1960 366 8 354 4
1961 365 26 325 14
1962 365 15 325 25
1963 365 5 354 6
1964 366 24 324 18
1965 365 12 324 29
1966 365 1 354 10
1967 365 20 325 20
1968 366 9 355 2
1969 365 27 325 13
1970 365 17 325 23
1971 365 6 355 4
1972 366 25 325 16
1973 365 13 325 27
1974 365 2 355 8
1975 365 21 325 19
1976 366 10 355 1
1977 365 28 326 11
1978 365 18 325 22
1979 365 8 354 3
1980 366 27 324 15
1981 365 15 324 26
1982 365 4 354 7
1983 365 23 324 18
1984 366 12 354 0
1985 365 30 325 10
1986 365 19 326 20
1987 365 9 355 1
1988 365 28 325 12
1989 366 18 324 24
1990 365 6 354 5
1991 365 25 324 16
1992 365 14 324 27
1993 366 3 354 9
1994 365 21 325 19
1995 365 10 355 0
1996 365 29 326 10
1997 366 19 325 22
1998 365 8 354 3
1999 365 26 325 14
2000 365 16 324 25
2001 366 5 354 7
2002 365 22 325 18
2003 365 12 325 28
2004 365 1 355 9
2005 366 20 325 21
2006 365 9 354 2
2007 365 28 325 12
2008 365 17 325 23
2009 366 6 354 6
2010 365 24 325 16
2011 365 13 325 27
2012 365 3 354 8
2013 366 22 325 19
2014 365 10 355 0
2015 365 29 325 11
2016 365 19 324 22
2017 366 8 354 4
2018 365 26 324 15
2019 365 15 324 26
2020 365 4 355 6
2021 365 23 325 17
2022 366 13 325 28
2023 365 1 355 9
2024 365 20 325 20
2025 365 10 354 1
2026 366 29 324 13
2027 365 17 324 24
2028 365 6 354 5
2029 365 25 324 16
2030 366 14 325 27
2031 365 3 354 8
2032 365 22 325 18
2033 365 11 325 29
2034 366 1 354 11
2035 365 18 325 22
2036 365 7 354 4
2037 365 26 325 14
2038 366 15 325 26
2039 365 4 355 6
2040 365 23 325 17
2041 365 13 325 27
2042 366 2 354 10
2043 365 20 324 21
2044 365 9 354 2
2045 365 28 324 13
2046 366 17 325 24
2047 365 5 355 5
2048 365 24 325 16
2049 365 14 325 26
2050 366 4 354 8
2051 365 22 324 19
2052 365 11 354 0
2053 365 30 324 11
2054 366 19 324 23
2055 365 7 354 4
2056 365 26 325 14
2057 365 15 325 25
2058 365 5 355 5
2059 366 24 325 17
2060 365 13 324 28
2061 365 2 354 9
2062 365 21 324 20
2063 366 10 354 2
2064 365 27 325 13
2065 365 17 325 23
2066 365 6 355 4
2067 366 25 325 16
2068 365 14 325 26
2069 365 3 355 7
2070 365 22 325 18
2071 366 11 354 1
2072 365 29 325 11
2073 365 18 325 22
2074 365 8 354 3
2075 366 27 325 14
2076 365 15 325 25
2077 365 5 354 6
2078 365 24 324 17
2079 366 13 324 29
2080 365 1 354 10
2081 365 20 324 21
2082 365 9 354 2
2083 366 28 325 13
2084 365 17 325 23
2085 365 6 355 4
2086 365 25 325 15
2087 366 15 324 27
2088 365 3 354 8
2089 365 22 324 19
2090 365 11 354 0
2091 365 30 324 11
2092 366 19 325 22
2093 365 8 354 3
2094 365 27 325 13
2095 365 16 325 24
2096 366 6 354 6
2097 365 23 325 17
2098 365 12 325 28
2099 365 1 355 9
2100 366 20 325 21
2101 365 9 354 2
2102 365 28 325 12
2103 365 18 325 22
2104 366 7 354 5
2105 365 25 324 16
2106 365 14 324 27
2107 365 3 354 8
2108 366 22 325 19
2109 365 10 355 0
2110 365 29 325 11
2111 365 19 325 21
2112 366 9 354 3
2113 365 27 324 14
2114 365 16 324 25
2115 365 5 354 6
2116 366 24 324 18
2117 365 12 325 28
2118 365 1 355 9
2119 365 20 325 20
2120 366 10 354 2
2121 365 28 325 12
2122 365 17 325 23
2123 365 7 354 4
2124 365 26 324 15
2125 366 15 324 27
2126 365 3 354 8
2127 365 22 325 18
2128 365 11 325 29
2129 366 1 354 11
2130 365 19 325 21
2131 365 8 355 2
2132 365 27 325 13
2133 366 16 325 25
2134 365 4 355 6
2135 365 23 325 17
2136 365 13 325 27
2137 366 2 355 9
2138 365 20 325 20
2139 365 10 354 1
2140 365 29 324 12
2141 366 18 324 24
2142 365 6 354 5
2143 365 25 324 16
2144 365 14 325 26
2145 366 3 355 8
2146 365 22 325 18
2147 365 11 325 29
2148 365 1 354 10
2149 366 20 324 22
2150 365 8 354 3
2151 365 27 324 14
2152 365 16 324 25
2153 366 5 354 7
2154 365 23 325 17
2155 365 12 326 27
2156 365 2 355 8
2157 365 21 325 19
2158 366 11 354 1
2159 365 28 325 12
2160 365 17 325 23
2161 365 6 355 4
2162 366 25 325 16
2163 365 14 325 26
2164 365 3 355 7
2165 365 23 324 18
2166 366 12 354 0
2167 365 30 324 11
2168 365 19 324 22
2169 365 8 354 3
2170 366 27 325 14
2171 365 15 325 25
2172 365 5 354 6
2173 365 24 325 16
2174 366 13 325 28
2175 365 2 354 9
2176 365 21 324 20
2177 365 10 354 1
2178 366 29 324 13
2179 365 17 325 23
2180 365 6 355 4
2181 365 25 325 15
2182 366 15 325 26
2183 365 3 355 7
2184 365 22 325 18
2185 365 12 324 29
2186 366 1 354 11
2187 365 19 324 22
2188 365 8 354 3
2189 365 27 325 13
2190 366 16 325 25
2191 365 5 354 6
2192 365 24 325 16
2193 365 13 325 27
2194 365 3 353 9
2195 366 21 325 20
2196 365 9 354 2
2197 365 28 325 12
2198 365 17 326 22
2199 366 7 355 4
2200 365 25 325 15
2201 365 15 325 25
2202 365 4 354 7
2203 366 23 324 19
2204 365 11 354 0
2205 365 30 324 11
2206 365 19 325 21
2207 366 8 355 3
2208 365 26 326 13
2209 365 16 325 24
2210 365 6 354 5
2211 366 25 324 17
2212 365 13 324 28
2213 365 2 354 9
2214 365 21 324 20
2215 366 10 354 2
2216 365 28 325 12
2217 365 17 326 22
2218 365 7 355 3
2219 366 26 325 15
2220 365 15 324 26
2221 365 4 354 7
2222 365 22 325 18
2223 366 11 355 0
2224 365 29 325 11
2225 365 19 325 21
2226 365 8 355 2
2227 365 28 324 13
2228 366 17 325 24
2229 365 5 354 6
2230 365 24 324 17
2231 365 13 325 27
2232 366 2 355 9
2233 365 20 325 20
2234 365 10 354 1
2235 365 29 325 11
2236 366 18 325 23
2237 365 7 354 4
2238 365 26 324 15
2239 365 15 324 26
2240 366 4 354 8
2241 365 22 325 18
2242 365 11 325 29
2243 365 1 354 10
2244 366 20 325 21
2245 365 8 355 2
2246 365 27 325 13
2247 365 17 324 24
2248 366 6 354 6
2249 365 23 325 17
2250 365 13 325 27
2251 365 2 355 8
2252 366 21 325 20
2253 365 10 354 1
2254 365 29 325 11
2255 365 18 325 22
2256 366 8 353 5
2257 365 25 325 15
2258 365 14 325 26
2259 365 3 355 7
2260 366 22 326 18
2261 365 11 325 29
2262 365 1 354 10
2263 365 20 324 21
2264 365 9 354 2
2265 366 28 324 14
2266 365 16 324 25
2267 365 5 354 6
2268 365 24 325 16
2269 366 13 326 27
2270 365 2 355 8
2271 365 21 325 19
2272 365 11 354 0
2273 366 30 324 12
2274 365 18 324 23
2275 365 7 354 4
2276 365 26 324 15
2277 366 15 325 26
2278 365 3 355 7
2279 365 22 326 17
2280 365 12 325 28
2281 366 2 354 10
2282 365 20 324 21
2283 365 9 354 2
2284 365 27 325 13
2285 366 16 325 25
2286 365 5 354 6
2287 365 24 325 16
2288 365 13 325 27
2289 366 3 354 9
2290 365 21 325 19
2291 365 10 354 1
2292 365 29 324 12
2293 366 18 325 23
2294 365 6 355 4
2295 365 25 325 15
2296 365 15 325 25
2297 365 4 355 6
2298 366 23 325 18
2299 365 12 324 29
2300 365 1 354 10
2301 365 20 324 21
2302 366 9 354 3
2303 365 27 325 13
2304 365 16 325 24
2305 365 6 354 5
2306 366 25 325 16
2307 365 13 325 27
2308 365 3 354 8
2309 365 22 324 19
2310 366 11 354 1
2311 365 28 325 12
2312 365 18 325 22
2313 365 7 355 3
2314 366 26 325 15
2315 365 15 325 25
2316 365 4 355 6
2317 365 23 325 17
2318 366 12 354 0
2319 365 30 325 10
2320 365 19 325 21
2321 365 8 355 2
2322 366 27 326 13
2323 365 16 325 24
2324 365 6 354 5
2325 365 25 324 16
2326 366 14 324 28
2327 365 2 354 9
2328 365 21 324 20
2329 365 10 354 1
2330 365 29 325 11
2331 366 18 326 22
2332 365 7 355 3
2333 365 26 325 14
2334 365 16 324 25
2335 366 5 354 7
2336 365 23 324 18
2337 365 12 324 29
2338 365 1 354 10
2339 366 20 325 21
2340 365 8 355 2
2341 365 27 326 12
2342 365 17 325 23
2343 366 7 354 5
2344 365 24 325 16
2345 365 14 324 27
2346 365 3 354 8
2347 366 21 325 20
2348 365 10 354 1
2349 365 29 325 11
2350 365 18 325 22
2351 366 8 354 4
2352 365 26 325 14
2353 365 15 325 25
2354 365 4 354 7
2355 366 23 325 18
2356 365 11 325 29
2357 365 1 354 10
2358 365 20 325 20
2359 366 9 355 2
2360 365 27 325 13
2361 365 17 324 24
2362 365 6 354 5
2363 365 25 324 16
2364 366 14 324 28
2365 365 2 355 8
2366 365 21 325 19
2367 365 11 354 0
2368 366 30 325 11
2369 365 18 325 22
2370 365 8 354 3
2371 365 27 324 14
2372 366 16 324 26
2373 365 4 354 7
2374 365 23 324 18
2375 365 12 325 28
2376 366 2 354 10
2377 365 20 325 20
2378 365 9 355 1
2379 365 28 325 12
2380 366 17 325 24
2381 365 5 354 6
2382 365 24 325 16
2383 365 13 325 27
2384 366 3 355 8
2385 365 21 325 19
2386 365 11 354 0
2387 365 30 324 11
2388 366 19 324 23
2389 365 7 354 4
2390 365 26 324 15
2391 365 15 325 25
2392 366 4 355 7
2393 365 22 325 18
2394 365 12 325 28
2395 365 2 354 9
2396 365 21 324 20
2397 366 10 354 2
2398 365 28 324 13
2399 365 17 324 24
2400 365 6 354 5
2401 366 25 325 16
2402 365 13 325 27
2403 365 3 355 7
2404 365 22 325 18
2405 366 12 354 0
2406 365 29 325 11
2407 365 19 324 22
2408 365 8 354 3
2409 366 26 325 15

Chinese calendar vs Calendars in China[edit]

From the edit history of the page, it appears that this article had been heavily edited to include a number of different calendars used in China. IIRC, the term "Chinese calendar" in English commonly refers to the lunisolar calendar known as nónglì (农历) or xiàlì (夏历), and the first day of the year in the calendar is celebrated as the Chinese New Year festival. I suggest that the subject of this page should be exclusively about the nónglì calendar. As for the other calendar systems in China, separate articles should be created, either as a whole or for individual calendars. For example, Chinese Wikipedia has an article for nónglì (zh:農曆), as well as an article for "Traditional calendars in China" (zh:中国传统历法) that includes brief descriptions of the various calendars and links to their individual articles.--Joshua Say "hi" to me!What I've done? 08:00, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe edit this article to have stuff about the official Chinese calendar first and then a heading "Other calendars used in China" for the rest? To be fair they are all "Chinese calendars" since they are used in China by the Chinese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.122.165 (talk) 15:15, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

External links in Chinese?[edit]

Some of the external links - like the Miao calendar, and 2000-year Chinese-Western calendar converter are in Chinese. Is that appropriate for the English page? Should they be removed? If I can read Chinese, I would probably go to the Chinese version of the page...and put the links there. As a purely English reader, I find that the links take up space and waste the clicks of readers. Comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fodaley (talkcontribs) 03:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

If you read WP:NONENGEL you will find that Chinese language links are acceptable in certain circumstances. Of course, an English language resource would be preferred if one is available, but they aren't always such. Some of the external links on this article seem to be duplicating each other, also the link to baike.baidu.com doesn't qualify here as the topic, if relevant, should be in a Wikipedia article. We shouldn't link to other encyclopaedia style articles. I will rationalise this a bit. Rincewind42 (talk) 07:47, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

The Chinese twelve animal calendar introduced to Iran by the Mongols[edit]

http://www.islamicmanuscripts.info/reference/articles/Tarikh-i-Ilm-08-2009/Tarikh-i-Ilm-08-2009-2-19-44-Isahaya.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZUB-FEpPHsoC&pg=PA110&dq=The+Chinese+Uighur+Animal+Calendar+in+Persian+Historiography+of+the+Mongol+Period&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Nd31UoGzM4WIyAGu9oD4BA&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Chinese%20Uighur%20Animal%20Calendar%20in%20Persian%20Historiography%20of%20the%20Mongol%20Period&f=false

https://www.zotero.org/groups/islamicate_studies/items/itemKey/8R2RJCJ6

Mentioned in

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/historiography-iv

http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/general_info/biographies/islamic/Melville.htm

http://online.sfsu.edu/mroozbeh/CLASS/H-604-pdfs/11-Melville-Sajluq-Aq.pdf

http://muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=993

http://books.google.com/books?id=AG2XBCmxYcUC&pg=PA355&lpg=PA355&dq=The+Chinese+Uighur+Animal+Calendar+in+Persian+Historiography+of+the+Mongol+Period&source=bl&ots=dGSpZ-B0wk&sig=xU1KxhMtvv3C0wSo1_PDjUTGZbo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p9_1UqDqCIapyAHPvICoBA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=The%20Chinese%20Uighur%20Animal%20Calendar%20in%20Persian%20Historiography%20of%20the%20Mongol%20Period&f=false

http://guides.library.duke.edu/content.php?pid=441357&sid=3613953

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZUB-FEpPHsoC&pg=PA110&dq=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turks&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O30wVNfgKcjisATlk4BY&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=12%20animal%20calendar%20Chinese%20turks&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=eHsqAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA49&dq=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turkish&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tL8wVJbIFoOkyQSGgIGAAg&ved=0CCkQ6wEwAA#v=onepage&q=12%20animal%20calendar%20Chinese%20turkish&f=false

The Turks acquired their calendar system from China.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GpQ3AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA233&dq=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turks&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6ZowVPHNKqXesASCoYCYCw&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=12%20animal%20calendar%20Chinese%20turks&f=false

Page 84

http://books.google.com/books?id=xEQuAQAAIAAJ&q=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turks&dq=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turks&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6ZowVPHNKqXesASCoYCYCw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw http://books.google.com/books?id=xEQuAQAAIAAJ&q=Professor+Bazin+has+demonstrated+with+a+wealth+of+detail+how+the+eastern+Turks+adapted+the+Chinese+civil+calendar,+...+The+Mongols+in+turn+adopted+this+Turkish+(+animal)+version+of+the+Chinese+calendar+from+the+Uighurs,+who+played+an+...&dq=Professor+Bazin+has+demonstrated+with+a+wealth+of+detail+how+the+eastern+Turks+adapted+the+Chinese+civil+calendar,+...+The+Mongols+in+turn+adopted+this+Turkish+(+animal)+version+of+the+Chinese+calendar+from+the+Uighurs,+who+played+an+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=X78wVMXhFsqayATT9YGYAw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA

Page 263

http://books.google.com/books?id=PJPrAAAAMAAJ&q=Before+entering+the+ddr+al-Isldm,+the+ancient+Turks+adopted+a+form+of+the+Chinese+luni-solar+calendar,+either+directly+from+China+or+via+the+Sogdians.+Later,+this+passed+from+the+Uyghur+Turks+to+the+Mongols,+who+in+turn+introduced+it+in+their+empire+in+Persia,+where+it+was+quite+widely+used,+alongside+the+...+The+Mongols+translated+the+Turkish+animal+names+into+their+own+language,+in+many+cases+(nos+.&dq=Before+entering+the+ddr+al-Isldm,+the+ancient+Turks+adopted+a+form+of+the+Chinese+luni-solar+calendar,+either+directly+from+China+or+via+the+Sogdians.+Later,+this+passed+from+the+Uyghur+Turks+to+the+Mongols,+who+in+turn+introduced+it+in+their+empire+in+Persia,+where+it+was+quite+widely+used,+alongside+the+...+The+Mongols+translated+the+Turkish+animal+names+into+their+own+language,+in+many+cases+(nos+.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=U78wVP__Bc6nyATNiIHgAw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=PJPrAAAAMAAJ&q=Before+entering+the+ddr+al-Isldm,+the+ancient+Turks+adopted+a+form+of+the+Chinese+luni-solar+calendar,+either+directly+from+China+or+via+the+Sogdians.+...+The+Mongols+translated+the+Turkish+animal+names+into+their+own+language,+in+many+cases+(nos.+3-5,+8-10)+using+words+that+are,+in+fact,+borrowed+from+Turkish+(where+,+in+turn,+some+of+the+names+derive+from+Iranian+or+Chinese);+in+Persian+texts+the+Turkish+and+the+Mongolian+names+are+used+interchangeably+(with+inevitable+variations+in+...+Year+10+takighu+takiya+cock+Year+1+1+it+nokay+dog+Year+12+tonuz+ghakay+pig+The+animal+cycle+continued+to+be+used+in+Persia+until+the+beginning+of+the+twentieth+century,+generally+in+conjunction+with+the+months+of+the+Djalalf+calendar.+x.&dq=Before+entering+the+ddr+al-Isldm,+the+ancient+Turks+adopted+a+form+of+the+Chinese+luni-solar+calendar,+either+directly+from+China+or+via+the+Sogdians.+...+The+Mongols+translated+the+Turkish+animal+names+into+their+own+language,+in+many+cases+(nos.+3-5,+8-10)+using+words+that+are,+in+fact,+borrowed+from+Turkish+(where+,+in+turn,+some+of+the+names+derive+from+Iranian+or+Chinese);+in+Persian+texts+the+Turkish+and+the+Mongolian+names+are+used+interchangeably+(with+inevitable+variations+in+...+Year+10+takighu+takiya+cock+Year+1+1+it+nokay+dog+Year+12+tonuz+ghakay+pig+The+animal+cycle+continued+to+be+used+in+Persia+until+the+beginning+of+the+twentieth+century,+generally+in+conjunction+with+the+months+of+the+Djalalf+calendar.+x.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IsYwVOStI46myASg8IKIAw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA

Page 113

http://books.google.com/books?id=zi9tAAAAMAAJ&q=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turkish&dq=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turkish&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5cIwVKTiB4OQyQSaq4DoAQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAzgK http://books.google.com/books?id=zi9tAAAAMAAJ&q=calendar+as+described+in+the+IlkhanT+Zlj+were+operating+in+Central+Asia,+but+within+the+Chinese+astronomical+tradition,+and+in+Chinese.+...+Sections+3,+5,+10,+and+1+1+below+give+tables+listing+the+names+of+such+things+as+the+duodecimal+animal+cycle,+the+sexagesimal+cycle+of+days+...+Most+of+these+Chinese+and+Turkish+names+are+standard+and+well+known.+...+Sections+12+through+17+define+and+describe+the+concepts+used+in+the+construction+of+the+calendar,+such+as+the+luni-solar+year,+lunar+...&dq=calendar+as+described+in+the+IlkhanT+Zlj+were+operating+in+Central+Asia,+but+within+the+Chinese+astronomical+tradition,+and+in+Chinese.+...+Sections+3,+5,+10,+and+1+1+below+give+tables+listing+the+names+of+such+things+as+the+duodecimal+animal+cycle,+the+sexagesimal+cycle+of+days+...+Most+of+these+Chinese+and+Turkish+names+are+standard+and+well+known.+...+Sections+12+through+17+define+and+describe+the+concepts+used+in+the+construction+of+the+calendar,+such+as+the+luni-solar+year,+lunar+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CMMwVMfsA8WfyAS3gYJ4&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA

Page 50

http://books.google.com/books?id=ofsfAQAAMAAJ&q=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turkish&dq=12+animal+calendar+Chinese+turkish&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tL8wVJbIFoOkyQSGgIGAAg&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg

http://books.google.com/books?id=ofsfAQAAMAAJ&q=The+12+shih+are+put+into+one+to+one+relation+with+the+12+earthly+branches+and+with+the+cycle+of+12+animals,+given+in+T.l.+...+5+as+in+the+modern+Chinese+calendar.+jylb+taqiqu+is+the+name+of+the+tenth+animal,+the+cock,+in+the+Turkish+list+of+twelve+...&dq=The+12+shih+are+put+into+one+to+one+relation+with+the+12+earthly+branches+and+with+the+cycle+of+12+animals,+given+in+T.l.+...+5+as+in+the+modern+Chinese+calendar.+jylb+taqiqu+is+the+name+of+the+tenth+animal,+the+cock,+in+the+Turkish+list+of+twelve+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xsIwVMmsHIacyQSpkYA4&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA

Page lxi

http://books.google.com/books?id=qq8RAQAAMAAJ&q=Among+all+the+nations+of+central+Asia+we+find+the+%22cycle+of+12+animals%22;+it+forms+the+basis+of+their+calendar+and+is+in+all+...+Modern+calendar+pictures,+whether+of+Mongolian+or+Turkish+origin,+show+a+tendency+to+replace+the+Chinese+dragon+by+...&dq=Among+all+the+nations+of+central+Asia+we+find+the+%22cycle+of+12+animals%22;+it+forms+the+basis+of+their+calendar+and+is+in+all+...+Modern+calendar+pictures,+whether+of+Mongolian+or+Turkish+origin,+show+a+tendency+to+replace+the+Chinese+dragon+by+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ncIwVNeqBMWeyASpuYGYCA&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=UaNBAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JqRDAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 00:43, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Practical Use[edit]

Actually to this day farmers use the calendar and only that calendar to figure out their agriculture seasons. In rural communities they hardly even have the gregorian calendar. If they used that calendar with their calendar then talking to them about days would be much easier. Also most Chinese people talk birthdays in the Chinese calendar and only officially record their gregorian birthday for IDs and stuff since the PRC follows international standards. Most even celebrate on the Chinese date unless they want to be "westernized" and celebrate on the western date. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to ask about ages and birthdays from Chinese people because every time its like you have to ask twice once to get the Chinese date they feel is important and then again to find out the one that means anything to you. Younger generation urbanites are more likely to know you mean the gregorian dates but even the older generations will naturally assume you mean the Chinese date. This is also why dates for traditional holidays are so easy for them to remember. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.122.165 (talk) 15:26, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Error in template[edit]

"The year from January 31, 2014 to February 18, 2015 is a Jiǎwǔnián or Mùmǎnián (Year of wooden horse), a year with dual Vernal Commences(traditional Chinese: 两頭春; simplified Chinese: 两头春)."

A space is needed between "Commences" and "(traditional." WikiWinters (talk) 17:11, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Cleanup required[edit]

It is clear to anyone reading this article that it desperately needs editing to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. What I'm currently trying to work out is exactly how it needs cleanup:

  • Copy-editing is desperately required. Large portions of the article have been revised by one editor in particular who clearly does not have the best grasp of writing in English or style guidelines.
  • Reorganisation. Right now it isn't too bad, though; still, I think it could be better organised, especially because there is:
  • Way too much information. Especially when stuff that should really be on other pages intrudes onto this page e.g. all the stuff on the Tibetan calendar.
  • An awful lot of inline Chinese quotes. I don't mind when they're used as examples or as references, but there are enough to detract from the page

At any rate, I've dropped a cleanup tag on the page. The problems may be bad enough to require a full rewrite, but I've chosen to be conservative for now. Feel free to add to the discussion. Arcorann (talk) 11:52, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Timezone matters[edit]

Should the timezone of determining days in a month be mentioned? A month begins on a day of new moon. Since the instant of new moon is universal across the globe, but a day is not, technically different places may observe different first day of a month.

For example, the first day in Chinese new year is a day with new moon in East Asia. But because of the time difference between East Asia and the US, the new moon may fall in the previous day in the current timezone system. In extreme case, China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam may not even agree on the day which a month starts on, at least technically.

However, by observation, East Asia and the US observes Chinese new year on the same date in accordance with modern timezone concept. Hence, I believe there is a hidden standard time concept (which is probably to be UTC+8), though I don't see sources for this. — Peterwhy 18:54, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

As per Aslaksen (The Mathematics of the Chinese Calendar section 4.6, linked on page), the timezone used is UTC+8 since 1929, and Beijing mean time (116°52') before that. There was a whole section on this at one point (see e.g. r534385599). Arcorann (talk) 11:49, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your confirmation. Do you think this should be mentioned in the current article? — Peterwhy 18:38, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

4712 TO NOHACH AND THE ARK  : 4712 לנח והתיבה[edit]

WE NEAD TO CHEK IF HAS IN THE BIBLE NOHACH WAS BEFORE 4712 YEARES AS THEY DO NOT COLECT THE 13 MONTH A YEAR https://www.google.co.il/search?q=%D7%A0%D7%97&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=783&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI3-O51veQxgIVyNYUCh38yQBs

NOACH IS A FATHER TO CHINA CALENDER AND THE ANIMULS IS LITTELL OF WHAT SAVED IN THE ARK AND THE DRAGON IS THE OLD BBIBLE GENESIS SNACKE THET IT IS THE REHEM OR CHIVIYA IS THE GAYENT ELEGEITER IN DAY 5 OF GENESIS WHAT IS THE FROT IF 4712 YEARS IS TO NOHACH OR TO PHANGO IF CHINA SOPORT SEVEN DAYES A WEEK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.219.140.199 (talk) 05:20, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

days and elements[edit]

The Japanese names for weekdays are translated Sol day, Luna day, Mars day, Mercury day, Jupiter day, Venus day, Saturn day. That's one way to read it. But the planets (other than Sun and Moon) are named for the five elements – e.g. Mars is 'Fire star' – and the 'star' root does not appear in the day names. So the names are arguably more accurately translated as Sun day, Moon day, Fire day, Water day, Wood day, Metal day, Earth day. I'd be happy with either "Fire (Mars) day" or "Mars (Fire) day". —Tamfang (talk) 16:29, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

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i agree that this translation seems to just replicate the English usages without regarding the actual translation at work. the Mandarin characters used for the days of the week right next to this translation are those used for the classical elements (other than Sun and Moon), and in Korean (as well Japanese apparently) the days of the week are taught to people as being named for the elements (including to those learning them as a second/other language). the translations are from both the Mandarin and Korean: Fire Day, Water Day, Wood Day, Metal Day, and Earth Day (for T/W/H/F/S), and these should replace those in the Meaning column presently. also, 'Sun Day' and 'Moon Day' should be properly capitalized. -eristikophiles; user talk; 20160630:1419EST. —Preceding undated comment added 18:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Sequence of the days[edit]

It would be much more logical to change the table with the translations and meaning of the days in the international, common sequence, beginning with Monday. Monday is the first day of the week. Maybe not in the US, but in Europe, China and the rest of the world, we start a week on Monday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.195.85.34 (talk) 23:29, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

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the only people who insist on Sunday being the first day of the week are christians, who cannot (or at least should not) hegemonically impose their religious preference for this practice on things like an impartial public encyclopedia. Monday is the first day of the week, and this practice is used by so many people that Google calendar has it as an option (and we all know their options aren't that consistently there or not). please change the day of the week so all us not-godfearing people can resume our secular days. -eristikophiles; |user talk; 20160630:1426EST. —Preceding undated comment added 18:26, 30 June 2016 (UTC)