Talk:Chinese social structure
Who wants to read such a long article?????????????
- Big country, big article. It has been neglected. It needs extensive editing and sourcing. Fred Bauder 17:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I am very buzy these days. I may have time to edit it in about 10 days.
I have started hacking away at this. I don't know if the article can be saved, it is so full of unverified facts and definite original research (the constant use of "I..." is a major giveaway). Also, I wonder if any of this is a copyright violation? For now, I will work on making it shorter, more readable, and seeing exactly where we need citations. But this needs huge editing before someone nominates it for deletion (in its current state, it definitely deserves it). Penguinwithaspear 04:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
- I created two new articles, Modern Chinese social structure and Social structure in Imperial China, both copied from this article. Penguinwithaspear 04:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
i removed it because it took up 8 kilobytes.
THIS ARTICLE IS OUTDATED!
- Watson, James L (ed.), Class and Social Stratification in Post-Revolution China, Cambridge University Press (Contemporary China Institute Publications 29 June, 1984), ISBN 0521-26062-0
- Li, Yi. 2005. The Structure and Evolution of Chinese Social Stratification. University Press of America.
- Firebaugh, Glenn. 2003. The New Geography of Global Income Inequality. Harvard University Press.
- The Oregin of Chinese Social Structure
- Eberhard, Wolfram. 1962. Social Mobility in Traditional China. Netherlands: E.J. Brill.
- Ho, Ping-Ti. 1976. The Ladder of Success in Imperial China: Aspects of Social Mobility, 1368-1911. Columbia University Press.
- Marsh, Robert M. (1961) 1980. The Mandarins: The Circulation of Elites in China, 1600-1900. The Free Press.
- Chow, Yung-teh. 1966. Social Mobility in China: Status Careers among the Gentry in a Chinese Community. New York: Atherton Press.
- Elman, Benjamin A. 2000. A Cultural History of Civil Examination in Late Imperial China. University of California Press.
- Chang, Chung-li. 1955. Chinese Gentry: Studies on Their Role in Nineteenth-Century Chinese Society. University of Washington Press.
- Esherick, Joseph W. and Rankin, Mary Backus (eds.) 1990. Chinese Local Elites and Patterns of Dominance. University of California Press.
- Fei, Xiaotong. (1953) 1968. China's Gentry. University of Chicago Press.
- Watson, James L (ed.) 1984. Class and Social Stratification in Post-Revolution China. Cambridge University Press.
- Fei, Xiaotong. 1992 (1947). From the Soil: The Foundations of Chinese Society. University of California Press.
- Fei, Xiaotong. 1947 (1939). Peasant Life in China: A Field Study of Country Life in the Yangtze Valley. London: Kegan Paul.
- Prazniak, Roxann. 1999. Of Camel Kings and other Things: Rural Rebels against Modernity in Late Imperial China. Rowman & Littlefield.
- Hinton, William. 1997 (1966). Fanshen: A Documentary of Revolution in a Chinese Village. University of California Press.
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- Friedman, Edward et al. 1991. Chinese Village, Socialist State. Yale University Press.
- Potter, Sulamith Heins and Potter, Jack M. 1990. China's Peasants: The Anthropology of a Revolution. Cambridge University Press.
- Huang Shu-min. 1998. The Spiral Road: Change in a Chinese Village Through the Eyes of a Communist Party Leader. Second Edition. Westview Press.
- Ruf, Gregory A. 1998. Cadres and Kin: Making a Socialist Village West China, 1921-1991. Stanford University Press.
- Seybolt, Peter J. 1996. Throwing the Emperor from His Horse: Portrait of a Village Leader in China, 1923-1995. Westview Press.
- Gao, Mobo. 1999. Gao Village: A Portrait of Rural Life in Modern China. University of Hawaii Press.
- Chan, Anita et al. 1992. Chen Village under Mao and Deng. University of California Press.
- Gilley, Bruce. 2001. Model Rebels: The Rise and Fall of China's Richest Village. University of California Press.
- Zhou, Kate Xiao. 1996. How the Farmers Changed China: Power of the People. Westview Press.
- Vermeer, Eduard B et al. (eds). 1998. Cooperative and Collective in China's Rural Development: Between State and Private Interests. M. E. Sharpe.
- Khan, Azizur Rahman and Carl Riskin. 2001. Inequality and Poverty in China in the Age of Globalization. Oxford University Press.
- Bernstein, Thomas P. and Lu Xiaobo. 2003. Taxation without Representation in Contemporary Rural China. Cambridge University Press.
- Wright, Daniel B. 2003. The Promise of the Revolution: Stories of Fulfilment and Struggle in China's Hinterland. Rowman & Littlefield.
- Solinger, Dorothy J. 1999. Contesting Citizenship in Urban China: Peasant Migrants, the State, and the Logic of the Market. University of California Press.
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- Kwan, Man Bun. 2001. The Salt Merchants of Tianjin: State-Making and Civil Society in Late Imperial China. University of Hawaii Press.
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- Coble, Parks M. 1986. The Shanghai Capitalists and the Nationalist Government, 1927-1937. Harvard University Press.
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- Schwarcz, Vera. 1986. The Chinese Enlightenment: Intellectuals and the Legacy of the May Fourth Movement of 1919. University of California Press.
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- Barnett, A Dork. 1967. Cadres, Bureaucracy, and Political Power in Communist China. Columbia University Press.
- Harding, Harry. 1981. Organizing China: The Problem of Bureaucracy 1949-1976. Stanford University Press.
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I think I have worked the article down to a manageable size. I will continue to edit and improve it, as well as add sources. Penguinwithaspear 00:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I removed the claim that the article is full of original research. I think some of it still is original research, but most of the contents now I recognize from independent sources such as Spence's histories and media reports I've read in the past, so most OR has been removed. It needs some more tweaking and it needs a lot of citations, but i think it's mostly okay in terms of OR now. Penguinwithaspear 00:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
It's still awful. I'm not sure any of it is right. The mistakes and prejudices start right from the beginning. Eg the four classes in early Imperial society - the first were literati, some of them may also have been landlords, but to describe them thus per se is a backward projection from Maoist doctrine. This also inspires the anachronism of equating Imperial China with feudal China. Zhou China (before the First Emperor) was feudal, but other dynasties exhibited neo-feudal features in different ways at different places and times under different local and historic pressures, which you can't lump together in a single Maoist-defiend box. You really can't excuse a terrible article like this (none of it sourced) when there is such a huge literature from Gernet to Granet to Mote to Spence and hundreds of others including those listed above. A disgrace to Wikipedia. It's a fscintationg and important subject but a vast one, mere brevity is no virtue here. Someone needs to thoroughly re-work it from scratch, or else it should be scrapped. Sorry. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I removed some of the "citation needed" tags because there are so many of them in the article that it is redundant: one per paragraph more than gets the idea across. Also, most of these tags date from 2007. This is an old article and it hasn't been significantly improved for at least the last 5 years. It needs to be rewritten or else someone knowledgeable on the subject needs to go through it erasing and/or putting in in-text citations.
I tried to clean up the "references" section at the end. Nevertheless, the format of those statistical references isn't correct. It says nothing except the title and page number. (The page numbers are not cited in the article. I don't know if the original version had these page numbers—I looked but couldn't find it in the history.)
- Also, in the "Access to state bank loans" section, it has as a reference: (Tsai, 2002). Yet this name doesn't appear in the reference section, nor in any other part of the article.Editfromwithout (talk) 23:15, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
A lot of people have complained about the quality of this article on this page, but few have taken the time to repair it (namely the referencing). I'm just not knowledgeable enough about the subject to fix it.Editfromwithout (talk) 23:05, 5 May 2012 (UTC)