Talk:Climatic Research Unit email controversy

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BIAS IN ARTICLE[edit]

Only the Pro-chicken Little side is given here. For one thing I always understood this to be the "Hide the Decline" email issue. Others called it Climategate. Instead the Pro-Chicken Little crowd calls it Climatic Research Unit email controversy" - bare nakid attempt at damage control clearly. --68.118.202.199 (talk) 00:39, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Well, Chicken Little got it right! "Even greater cooling of 17 °C per decade has been observed high in the ionosphere, at 350 km altitude. This has affected the orbits of orbiting satellites, due to decreased drag, since the upper atmosphere has shrunk and moved closer to the surface (Lastovicka et al., 2006). The density of the air has declined 2-3% per decade the past 30 years at 350 km altitude. So, in a sense, the sky IS falling!" . . . dave souza, talk 19:29, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

ClimateGate Source Code Findings[edit]

It appears that no one has mentioned the issues in the climate model source code that were found.

http://www.oneutah.org/2009/11/climategate-source-code-more-damning-than-emails/

The fact that values were hard coded into climate models that were used by the public and government agencies should at least be mentioned, no?

(I apologize if this is a duplicate. it appeared that my other post wasn't saved.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deanofharvard (talkcontribs) 22:13, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Let's see: "Utah's Favorite Public Square for Loud Political Debate" puts something on its self-published website on November 28th, 2009, and somehow no-one thinks to bring it up in their submissions to the various enquiries – or did they? Have you a better source for the actual use of the codes? Looks like noise with no substance. . . dave souza, talk 22:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Does anything supersede this BBC report? YoPienso (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Probably something in documentation of the various inquiries, but Myles Allen dismisses it nicely, as summarised at Climatic Research Unit documents#Code and documentation. . . dave souza, talk 02:07, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. The Guardian debunking the BBC isn't very convincing, though. Tim Lambert is more convincing, but since I don't write code I can't really follow his argument, except to notice the code in question did have something to do with the HadCRUT temperature record. But Lambert was nonetheless dismissive of the allegation. I'd like to learn more about this. William Connelley may know something about it. YoPienso (talk) 04:14, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1.3.3.3 “Harry Read Me” file and other code opening paragraph – "The petitioners submitted a large number of quotes from a 300 page, 90,000 word document named HARRY_READ_ME.txt 45 . The HARRY_READ_ME.txt debugging notes are a record of “Harry’s” 46 attempt to update the CRU TS2.1 product to TS3.0 during the years 2006 to 2009 by merging six years of additional data (covering 2003 to 2008) to an old dataset running until 2002, and migrating the code to a new computer system at the same time. As noted in the science background in Subsection 1.3.2 of this document, CRU TS2.1 and 3.0 are different from the HadCRUT temperature record that is referred to in the EPA TSD. Arguments made by petitioners about the TS datasets are not relevant to the HadCRUT temperature record." Read on and enjoy. . . dave souza, talk 08:06, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Too heavy-duty to enjoy, but thanks for the link.
Graham-Cunningham was concerned enough about substandard coding in the project that he wrote to Parliament about it.
Nature published a paper to which he contributed that used the Met/CRU data as an example of poor coding. (Click on Box 1.) Lead author Darrel C. Ince was not critical of the scientists, writing, "These errors do not in any way reflect badly on the original authors. The code rewriting simply plays the part of peer review and it is normal to find such errors." Ince wrote a more accessible article in the Guardian about the problem, calling it "One of the spinoffs from the emails and documents that were leaked from the Climate Research Unit . . ." So, yes, there's actually some substance behind the noise, but it seems peripheral to this article. It's interesting to me but I don't see that we should add it to the article. YoPienso (talk) 10:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
This issue is covered in Climatic Research Unit documents. Any expansion would be appropriate there under "Code and documentation". There's a link in this article to that one. YoPienso (talk) 18:19, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Yopienso, I think it will be worth adding something to that article section, which I linked above. The Graham-Cunningham memo relates agrees that the readme files are about the CRU TS2.1 and 3.0 product (which incorporates all sorts of climate data, including rainfall), a different product to the CRUTEM/HadCRUT temperature record which was the centre of controversy. However it may be worth noting Ince et al.'s investigation and improvements to the code used in CRUTEM, providing we're clear this doesn't support the claims that these minor issues overturn all the science. The EPA investigation gives useful clarification and context. One item is particularly appropriate this evening:
Comment (1-48): The Coalition for Responsible Regulation provides the following quote from the HARRY READ ME.txt file
  OH F[---] THIS. It’s Sunday evening, I’ve worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I’m hitting yet another problem that’s based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it’s just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they’re found.

It's of interest as Harry was trying to put together datasets produced by different organisations in different countries, and in this instance the datasets used different sized grids for calculating rain days: nothing to do with the CRUTEM land temperature product. Anyway, it amused me. . . dave souza, talk 19:53, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

You just cant say that numerous sources were climate change deniers - you need to be accurate and neutral here in Wikipedia - because Climategate was a huge incident in Finnish media as well. Kartasto (talk) 17:44, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality requires due weight and care with pseudoscience: many sources have promoted climate change denial [or have denied aspects of climate science while claiming to be "skeptical"] so each has to be considered on merits. . . dave souza, talk 18:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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citation 30 is a 404[edit]

Citation 30 is broken. This is an important citation to have because it places a "controversial email into perspective. Without the citation existing their is no merit or reason to have it placed into context as it would be seen as somebody elses, possibly, biased response. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mayan1222 (talkcontribs) 18:38, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, sorted, their it is. Other cited sources also place this cherry picked quote into perspective. . . dave souza, talk 19:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)