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I don't think this article is very neutral - it seems to be filled with so-called 'underground' music marketing hyperbole. The phrases 'classic' 'breakthrough' 'groundbreaking' 'influential' 'took the U.K. by a [sic] storm' all appear in the first 3 paragraphs. Perhaps quoting the bands and reputable reviewers, then toning down the language in the main article.



I amended the "Releases include" section to an album Discography. Here's what I removed:

  • Cold-Cut-Outs
  • Everything Is Under Control
  • Re:volution
  • Timber
  • More Beats & Pieces
  • Atomic Moog & Boot The System
  • All City
  • Autumn Leaves
  • People Hold On
  • True Skool (single featuring Roots Manuva released March 18th) from the new album, Sound Mirrors)

Someone may want to add these back in under a "Discography: Singles" section... Gram 13:22, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Luminary status[edit]

I would agree that the article definitely has a sensationalist tone and the language is defintely over-the-top. For example, "such luminaries as Junior Reid (who, I'm afraid, I've never heard of - if he's such a 'luminary' then, surely, I'd have heard of him. Besides, the term is purely subjective; I would consider such artists as Paul Weller, Bob Geldof (whatever you might think of him) and Lemmy to be luminaries (thought I'd better mention Lemmy in case my boyfriend ever reads this!) You could add Freddie Mercury to that list as being (to the best of my knowledge) the first frontman to come out as homosexual. THAT'S my definition of a 'luminary' - someone who breaks the mould. Queen were luminaries too, of course, as Bohemian Rhapsody was the first song to have a video (at Freddie's insitence - without Freddie, channels like MTV, VH, Bliss, etc wouldn't exist).

What makes Queen Latifah a luminary? She wasn't the first female rap artist (though I couldn't tell you who the first was - please, someone, feel free to enlighten me). And as for Junior Reid - who, if he was such an eminent figure in, I assume, black music, then he'd have a Wikipedia entry - and I'd have heard of him).

Okay, I'll end this now, but I'll end it by saying that it really irks me when such words as 'eminent' 'luminary' 'superstar', etc., are bandied around, instead of being reserved for those who are truly worthy of such accolades as, eventually, they lose all meaning. Margo 19:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't dispute that this article may contain non-neutral POV by any means, however, I disagree with much of your statement above.
  • "if he's such a 'luminary' then, surely, I'd have heard of him."
Why would you (or me, or any individual) have to hear of someone before they can be classed as a "luminary" by others? By a majority, even? A quick dictionary definition of luminary (as opposed to your own definition) -
"A person who is an inspiration to others. A person who has achieved eminence in a specific field."
Well, I've heard of Junior Reid, but was not personally aware of his music. A quick search reveals he is a Jamaican reggae / dancehall musician who has been recording since the mid 70s and has released 25+ solo albums. He was a member of "Voice of Progress" and later Grammy award winning band Black Uhuru. Madonna tried to sign him to her label but he resisted. He evidently has fame and longevity and is respected for his talent, albeit outside of your limited musical environment. He may indeed be inspirational and have achieved eminence in his specific field. Therefore, he could well be worthy of the label "luminary", particularly to his primary fanbase in Jamaica.
  • "if he was such an eminent figure in, I assume, black music, then he'd have a Wikipedia entry - and I'd have heard of him"
Not every notable person in the world has a Wikipedia entry. Not every person who has a Wikipedia article is notable. It is likely that the vast majority of musician and band articles on Wikipedia are written by fans. All this suggests is that Junior Reid fans might not be inclined to write Wikipedia articles!
  • "I would consider such artists as Paul Weller, Bob Geldof [...] and Lemmy to be luminaries [...] You could add Freddie Mercury to that list!"
Exactly. You would consider those artists luminaries. Because you feel these characters are inspirational. Fair enough, you could go and add the word luminary to those artists' articles if you wanted. However, if a Junior Reid or Queen Latifah fan came back and argued that they didn't believe those artists to be luminaries, their point would be no different from yours and equally subjective. In my own subjective view, I understand why you have given Weller, Geldof and Mercury the "luminary" status, the latter two particularly as they have notability beyond just their music. And as for Lemmy, he was a frontman of a dodgy rock band who've been trading off the fame of one song for the whole of their careers. I would not necessarily agree with you that any of these people are luminaries (I don't feel inspired by any of them), but neither would I campaign to have the "L" word removed from their articles, especially if I was unaware of who they were, or why they were so highly critically regarded.
  • "What makes Queen Latifah a luminary?"
Again, it is subjective - you may feel she is not a luminary, but others evidently do. She has had a music career spanning 6 albums, 5 as a female rapper in what was a male-dominated musical genre. She won a Grammy for her music and has been nominated for an Oscar. She is clearly a role model as a strong black woman. She will undoubtedly be inspirational to some, even if you are not one of them. Some people will feel she is eminient in her specific field and worthy of the label.
  • "She wasn't the first female rap artist (though I couldn't tell you who the first was - please, someone, feel free to enlighten me)."
Seeing as you asked. It's hard to say for certain, but:
Debbie Harry is credited by some as performing the first female rap, in her performance of the song "Rapture" in 1980, which brought hip hop to a larger (and indeed, white) audience.
The Sequence were possibly the first female rap crew who started out in 1979.
Lady B was the possibly the first female rapper to record as a solo artist, in 1980.
By the way, seeing as this is an article about Coldcut, are they luminaries?!
Gram 11:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Junior Reid is indeed a luminary and in fact continues to work to this day as a distributed recording artist. Talk about ethnocentric! And as someone who was THERE at the time, I assure you Coldcut were a sensation! THey made the cover of NME no less than three times in a two year span and were routinely tapped for musical opinions and commentary. Furthermore, if you don't think a small startup label run from someone's spare room spawning three hit singles in less than a year is sensational then I suggest you tell us how it would be commonplace. Instead of arguing, why don't you read the article and LEARN something! That said, the marketing jargon is indeed too much and lacks reference as being intended or stated by Ninjatune. <Tednor (talkcontribs) 08:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Very Poor Show Indeed[edit]

Overall this is a very poorly written article, with obvious typo/grammar errors, and a lot of the facts are incorrect. I will try to amend as I see appropriate. Hiyahiyahiya 21:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

As someone who made contributions to this article, let me say that I am always grateful to the cleanup guys! I like to share what I know, get it out there. Neither my knowledge nor my writing will be "sterling' one hundred percent of the time. We are all in this together and "the process" is what makes Wiki work in the long run, so let's not disparage each other, but keep adding, shaping and correcting. It's all good. --Tednor 08:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Coldcut's best known stuff?[edit]

Surely Coldcut's best known single is Timber, which was accompanied by a video that featured prominently on MTV and elsewhere. The other singles mentioned were, according to the biog, from the very start of their career. Batterburger 18:51, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


the history seems to stop at 1991. there's no mention of Let Us Play. i thought that was their big classic breakthrough album, and that timber and beatsnpieces were big classic songs. whats up with that?Kansaikiwi (talk) 00:41, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


From the article:

"...religious writings of J. R. "Bob" Dobbs as they do to..."

As far as I'm aware, Dobbs being a fictional character has never written anything. -- (talk) 08:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Moreover IIRC the Subgenious literature does not pretend to be written by Dobbs, but about him. ( (talk) 13:32, 8 May 2010 (UTC))