Talk:Color

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A multitude of problems with this article.[edit]

I'm not sure where to begin. This article is HORRIBLY written! Color is NOT "the visual perceptual property corresponding in humans to the categories called red, blue, yellow, etc." It is a visual perception AND a (visual) property. Confusing the two is just wrong, as is confounding the two. Color, as an abstract property (ie unrelated to the things which have it, without context), is not something that non-humans have/use (afaik), so to use "humans" to imply that color is broader than a human experience is misleading. The ENGLISH LANGUAGE categories "called red, blue, yellow, etc." have no more significance than OTHER categorizations used by OTHER cultures, and are NOT in any way fundamental to the definition of color. It is FALSE that "Color derives from the spectrum of light (distribution of light power versus wavelength) interacting in the eye with the spectral sensitivities of the light receptors." ..."with the spectral sensitivities" ????? "interacting with the eye"??? The eye doesn't act ON the emr, the emr acts (one-way) ON the eye, there's no "inter-". Color "derives" from both our eyes' response(s) to light and how the resulting electro-chemical signals are interpreted and processed by our brains. There seems to be zero appreciation of the basic fact that color is a mental construct which we assign as a (static/stable) property of objects. The color of an object depends on how our brains interpret the signals our eyes receive, the physical transformation from emr to electrochemical signals is only a part of the story; in terms of the energy used by our optical system, it is a minor part. Ignoring the major role that our brains play in this process is just wrong. I could write a couple of more pages listing all that is wrong with this, its just so bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.96.79.240 (talk) 22:18, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2016[edit]

The caption under the image for Subtractive Color Mixing is very misleading. You do not add Magenta and Yellow to make Red, rather you SUBTRACT Yellow from Magenta...... and SUBTRACTING all three primary colors yields black (not adding)

73.39.247.19 (talk) 15:30, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Done — Andy W. (talk) 00:24, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Just reading this caption under the image, I find even this version somewhat misleading: I would have thought that you'd subtract blue from magenta to get red. (i.e. red + blue = magenta, so magenta - blue = red). Might I suggest a different wording such as "subtracting yellow and magenta together" (in keeping with the format of the phrase "subtracting all three primary colors together") - or perhaps better still, replace "subtracting" with "combining" - i.e.: "Subtractive color mixing: combining yellow with magenta yields red; combining all three primary colors together yields black". --Greenwoodtree 21:25, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

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Incorrect Information About Color Perception In Non-Humans[edit]

User:Dicklyon has reverted corrected information in the article. The mantis shrimp does not have "12 spectral receptor types thought to work as multiple dichromatic units", the reverted edits point to the Nature article which summarizes a Science article showing that how difficult it is to interrogate color perception in non-human animals and states explicitly[1]:

The results from our experiments suggest that the stomatopods do not use a processing system of multiple dichromatic comparisons as previously hypothesized...

Statements about bees require more detailed qualifications beyond the scope of the article[2]. It would make far more sense to avoid (incorrect) speculation about perception. I'd like to understand if User:Dicklyon considered the validity of the statements that are currently in the article before he performed his reversion.Maneesh (talk) 01:44, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

No, I did not consider the validity. I just reverted what looked like a removal of a bunch of sourced information. It would be great if you could correct it per the source. Dicklyon (talk) 01:50, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

These reversions also remove the corrections to the obviously incorrect statements such as: "the three cone cell types that respond to three bands of light: long wavelengths, peaking near 564–580 nm (red);". To be absolutely clear, 564-580nm light does not appear as red. Now how does the proposed correspondence between RGB color space and human trichromacy make sense? I can make no sense about the sentence that is implying chroma is somehow represented in CMYK. These incorrect sentences are right up near the top on such a fundamental topic as color. The edits I had put in fix things appropriately by leaving things concise and avoiding incorrectness.Maneesh (talk) 21:37, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Please do work on fixing, but don't just remove. Probably what "red" meant there was another way to refer to the "long" cones, but that needs to be clarified. I agree the RGB–LMS correspondence as described there is a stretch (that is, the correspondence is through a matrix transformation, not an identity). What do the cited sources say about that? Dicklyon (talk) 01:37, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
The first two paragraphs are simply littered with incorrect information. The correspondence between L, M and S peak sensitivity and and R, G and B is spurious (as already stated, the peak wavelength of the L cone does not have a peak absorbance in "red" wavelengths but in "yellow-green"). The information about butterflies, bees and the mantis shrimp ranges from speculation to simply incorrect. The statement about CMYK dimensions and chroma is nonsense. There is no real fix other than to remove incorrect information. Why would anyone consider going into detail about color perception in the mantis shrimp in the third paragraph on an article that is on a broad a topic as "color"?Maneesh (talk) 06:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Thoen, H. H.; How, M. J.; Chiou, T.-H.; Marshall, J. (23 January 2014). "A Different Form of Color Vision in Mantis Shrimp". Science. 343 (6169): 411–413. doi:10.1126/science.1245824. 
  2. ^ Skorupski, Peter; Döring, Thomas F.; Chittka, Lars (27 February 2007). "Photoreceptor spectral sensitivity in island and mainland populations of the bumblebee, Bombus terrestris". Journal of Comparative Physiology A. 193 (5): 485–494. doi:10.1007/s00359-006-0206-6.