Talk:Common eland

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Good article Common eland has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Subfamily[edit]

I think an error occurred: the subfamily of common Eland is not "Bovinae" but "Antilopinae". I'm going to correct it.
--Suhardian 20:12, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Taxonomic Information System, American Society of Mammalogists Index for the Mammalian Species and [1] classify eland in subfamily Bovinae. I Have reverted it back to Bovinae. -- Rooivalk 05:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


upto 3,5 m tall. The second tallest land animal then? Herds of upto 400? whos writing this?

These pages seem to agree, although the 3.5m figure does seem too high. I've adjusted it. [2] [3] [4]. Lunkwill 09:37, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


Scientific Name

Should the scientific name be amended to Tragelaphus not Taurotragus? IUCN use Tragelaphus and has the note: The genus Taurotragus, in which the Common Eland and the Giant Eland, T. derbianus, are sometimes included, is here included in the genus Tragelaphus, in accordance with recent genetic evidence and classifications (see Kingdon in press for summary). Three subspecies of Common Eland have been recognized, although their validity requires investigation (Thouless in press). [1] Adelophryne (talk) 09:57, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Adelophryne Thanks for your suggestion. I have observed that Taurotragus is the commoner name, and the article already mentions that Tragelaphus is often used. It can not be really changed till we are completely sure. Sainsf <^>Talk all words 12:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Life span[edit]

How long does it live? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jnw222 (talkcontribs) 18:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It lives for 15-20 years generally, and some are recorded to be living for even 25 years. I've expanded this article and mentioned this fact about life span in the 'Description' section too. Thanks.--Sainsf<^> (talk) 14:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Uses[edit]

I don't think it is appropriate to call the Israel Defense Forces "Israel Occupation Army", even though it is called so in the source. --JewBask (talk) 03:07, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

I have removed that part. I don't think its source is so good to trust. --Sainsf <^> (talk) 01:42, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Page move?[edit]

Shouldn't this page be moved to Common eland, lower case "e"? Unless I'm missing something, that seems to be the implication of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (fauna)#Capitalisation and italicisation. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 13:34, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I have always thought of moving the article. After all, the whole article should have the 'e' either lower case or higher case, the former being more appropriate.--Sainsf <^> (talk) 11:50, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: already moved to Common eland by Topbanana. Uncontroversial like so many recent mammal renamings. Favonian (talk) 15:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


Common ElandCommon eland – The 'e' in the Common Eland need not be capital anyhow. The lower case is much appropriate. But there is a redirect page, Common eland, that is causing problem. --Sainsf <^> (talk) 09:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Size information inconsistent[edit]

The size and weight information in the lead is not entirely consistent with that at Common eland#Physical description. I would suggest that the lead be changed to give a less precise set of ranges consistent with the later information. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. I have fixed it. I think it is consistent now.--Sainsf <^> (talk) 12:14, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Common eland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Oakley77 (talk · contribs) 02:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Review[edit]

  1. Well written:
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (prose) As far as animal articles go, this one is good for this criteria  Pass
    (b) (MoS) Passes here  Pass
  2. Verifiable with no original research:
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (references) All refs are acceptable, useful, and pass.  Pass
    (b) (citations to reliable sources) All citations in article are reliable  Pass
    (c) (original research) Yes, it appears so  Pass
  3. Broad in its coverage:
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (major aspects) Follows textbook form for organism articles, and covers vital points well.  Pass
    (b) (focused) Indeed.  Pass
  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
    Notes Result
    Neutral defines this article.  Pass
  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
    Notes Result
    No edits disputes, wars, or conflicts  Pass
  6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales) Creative and applicable image usage.  Pass
    (b) (appropriate use with suitable captions) Adheres to this category.  Pass

Result[edit]

Result Notes
 Pass All in all, this article has the stuff to be a GA!

Oakley77 (talk) 02:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Please add any related discussion here. Oakley77 (talk) 02:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC) This a well- done article, so I will go ahead and make it a GA!Oakley77 (talk) 02:59, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Common eland/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Keilana (talk · contribs) 03:57, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I've listed my preliminary comments on the article below. I'll have more in the next 24 hours or so. Keilana|Parlez ici 03:57, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Lead - Done[edit]

  • I really don't like having inline citations in the lead. As long as the facts are cited later, you're good to go.
Yes check.svg Done. I have removed all unnecessary citations but one or two, for facts not cited later on.
In that case, you should have those facts included and cited later on.
  • If you prefer the Oxford comma (I do), you need commas after "open" and "Zambia".
Could not understand, please elaborate.
The Oxford comma is a comma before the last item in a list.
I do not use the comma actually, so it need not be included.
  • "avoiding dense forests" should be "avoids dense forests".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • The sentence beginning "It uses various forms of communication..." is awkward.
Could not understand, please elaborate.
Would it help if I suggested a wording?
Yes, fix the sentence as you think proper.
Yes check.svg Done
  • You kind of imply that the leather is "rich and nutritious". Ew. Since leather makes for gross food, you should rewrite to clarify that only the milk is rich and nutritious.
Yes check.svg Done. Sorry for making such a silly mistake!
Haha no apology necessary, I just found it amusing. :)
  • "but is still considered of least concern" - shouldn't this be "but it is still classified as 'Least Concern'"? Or is the literature different?
Yes check.svg Done. You are right, I have fixed it so.
Cool, thanks.
  • There should be a "the" before "International Union for Conservation of Nature".
Yes check.svg Done.

Etymology - Done[edit]

  • Do you have anything on what the eland is called in various African languages? I'd find that totally fascinating.
I found it is name in Swahili only (the one available). But I have not added it as it has no proper citations, yet some websites mention it.
Have you tried the Oxford English Dictionary?
Yes, see here. No mention of any other names.
  • The phrase "which focuses at the pointed horns of North African antelopes like common eland and scimitar-horned oryx." is awkward.
Yes check.svg Done. I have tried to fix it, see if it is all right.
It was fine, I just added one "the" to fix it.
  • Why was it named an "eland" in Dutch? I'm assuming this has something to do with the Boers, but I'd love an explanation in the article if that's possible.
I can add it, I think. But before it, I must tell you, I have some information below, I have written it in an arranged manner. Can it be added, do you think? I found it from here and here. See and if yes please fix it in the article; else this portion need not be included.
"The name eland is Dutch for elk. It has a Baltic source similar to the Lithuanian elnias, which means deer. It was borrowed earlier as ellan in the 1610s via French or ellend, which is the German form of the word. When Dutch settlers came to the Cape Province they named the largest wild ruminant herbivore they met with the name of the huge northern herbivore. In Dutch the animal is called "Eland antelope" to distinguish it from the elk, which is found in the northern boreal forests."
I didn't quite understand your comment; is this a quotation from the source or what you wrote?
No, this is the information I got from the two above mentioned sites, and have arranged as a proper paragraph. As you said, I looked over in the Oxford English Dictionary site, and have got the same information. Look here. I think I ought to add it.

Yes check.svg Done.

That's good, I made a couple copyedits for clarification and fixed the references. Yes check.svg Done

I have done all I could now. I have big hopes with this article, and it is almost at the point of being a GA. Please do not fail it this time. Any problems, do inform me. --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 08:00, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

You're doing fine, no worries. It's got a lot of potential and I won't fail it unless you completely give up. It'll get there! :) Keilana|Parlez ici 18:52, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Physical description - done[edit]

  • Since the first sentence of this deals mainly with taxonomy, maybe you could move the information there. However, I would keep the bit about spiral horns in the physical description.
Yes check.svg Done. I have fixed it, omitted the part 'belonging to the Bovid tribe of Tragelaphini'. Really, no use of it.
  • Reword "with females being smaller than males".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Again with the Oxford comma business, you would need a comma after "base of the tail" in both locations.
I have decided not to use this Oxford comma. Well, if it is necessary better you fix it for me in the whole article wherever needed.
Oops, must have forgotten. It's totally up to the writer, we just have different preferences. No big deal :)
  • I would change "the tail adds a further 50-90 cm" to "the tail is 50-90 cm long".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • You need to explain further (gloss) what "pelage" is, and you don't need to say "varies from place to place around the world". Instead, you can say "varies geographically".
Yes check.svg Done. Pelage means coat, so better replace it with that word. Thanks for the 'geographically', I was badly thinking for the appropriate word :) .
No problem!
  • Can you explain what the distinctive markings on North African elands are?
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Rewrite "Coats are generally smooth over most of the body except for a rough mane"; it's weakly worded.
Yes check.svg Done. Is it OK now?
Yes, that's lovely!
  • "there may also be a series of white stripes vertically on the sides of bulls" can be reworded as "bulls may also have a series of vertical white stripes on their sides".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Move the part about aging males to the end of the paragraph. I would also suggest a stronger wording, like "As males age, their coat becomes tinged with grey" or "As males age, their coat becomes more grey".
Yes check.svg Done. I prefer the latter one.
Sounds good to me.
  • "The horns of males are thicker and shorter than those of females (43–66 centimetres (17–26 in) long versus 51–69 centimetres (20–27 in)), as well as having a tighter spiral" needs a rewrite.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "Horns are used by males" should be rewritten in the active voice as "males use their horns" and " while females will stab predators with their horns" should be rewritten as something like "females use their horns to stab predators".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Can you explain more about the females' use of horns as a defense mechanism? Do males do it too?
Yes check.svg Done. Females use it also to defend children, males use for defense only.
  • "Common elands are the slowest antelope" should either be "The common eland is the slowest antelope" or "Common elands are the slowest antelopes". I prefer the first option, but it's your choice.
Yes check.svg Done. I too prefer the former one.
  • You need to split up the sentence about the speed.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • This paragraph has a lot of parentheses; it's a bit choppy to read. Could you rewrite some/all of them?
Which paragraph do you mean? I do not notice so many brackets in the paragraph about speed and life expectancy, except for those in which measurements are given.
  • "Life expectancy is generally..." should probably be "The common eland's life expectancy is generally..."; and the 2nd part should be rewritten, something like "The common eland's life expectancy is generally between 15 and 20 years; some live up to 25 years."
Yes check.svg Done.
  • You need to specify if this life expectancy is for elands in the wild, and try to find some data on the life expectancy for captive elands.
Yes check.svg Done. Actually I forgot to write that. Captive elands may live for up to 25 years, wild ones live for 10-15 years.
  • Can you explain a bit about what the eland communication may mean?
It is described in the 'Ecology and behavior' section. I do not think it should be explained here.
You're right, perhaps that's why I should read the article completely first! This is fine as is.

Taxonomy - done[edit]

  • Oxford comma - after "Bovidae"
Not thinking of using it, if needed fix it (aforesaid).
  • The correct plural is "common elands", right? You're inconsistent.
Yes check.svg Done. Haha, silly mistake!
  • How is the giant eland related? I'd love an explanation of this.
Both common eland and giant eland are of the same genus. I don't think it requires explanation in the article, it is understood (as in other articles too).

Subspecies - done[edit]

  • This section needs more detail for all of them.
I have given all available. I do not think it requires so much focus. However, if you find any, you can add it.
  • Can you explain the thing about "validity requires investigation"?
I have been thinking of having the phrase omitted. I actually added it for the IUCN site mentioned it, but I do not quite understand it myself. What do you think?
I think I clarified it.

I know English isn't your first language (and I don't speak a word of Oriya), so if you have difficulty with the language/rewriting aspects I can always offer rewording suggestions and copyedits. I'd love to see this get promoted! I'm slowly working through all the sections and will keep posting as I get to them. You're doing a fantastic job; keep it up! Keilana|Parlez ici 19:21, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Face-smile.svg Thank you, I will ask your help if I need it. (Thanks for seeing my user page if you have as you know my first language, I like people to see it!) Add more comments, I love to fix them as they do so good to the article. --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 11:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Diseases and parasites - done[edit]

  • You kind of imply that the second sentence is related to the first. Please clarify if this is true of not.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Explain how Clostridium can be harmful - what effects does it have, etc.
Sorry, couldn't add, there was no information.
  • What kind of ticks are they hosts to?
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "to Brucella bacteria" should be "for".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Specify which pneumoniae it's immune to.
Yes check.svg Done.

Genetics and evolution - done[edit]

  • The first sentence needs to be rewritten.
Yes check.svg Done. I split it, better you see to it.
  • Explain why this translocation occurred and what effects it has on the organism.
Sorry, no information about that.
  • "they do not agree well" - you need to clarify what this means. Also, this isn't as formal as it could be.
Should I write 'match well'? Actually the definition need not be there, I think?
  • "and the male eland" should be a semicolon instead of "and"
Yes check.svg Done.
  • More details on eland-kudu hybrids? And the surrogacy thing?
Not much available.

I'll have more in a bit. Sorry this is such slow going. Keilana|Parlez ici 18:30, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

It's all right. I hope this finishes in a week or so, as quickly as possible. There are not many sections left too. --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 05:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't particularly like the phrase " with fossils found throughout the continent (as well as some in France) and the best record appearing in sub-Saharan Africa". I'd preface that with a semicolon and say "fossils are found throughout Africa and France, with the best record appearing in sub-Saharan Africa" or somesuch.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Change the parenthetical phrase "the eland's tribe" to "The first members of the tribe Tragelaphini appear 6 million years"
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Is there any detail on the animals it shares a common ancestor with?
Not more than what is in the article in most websites.

Ecology and behavior - done[edit]

  • I suggest you split up the first sentence.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • When is estrus normally?
Yes check.svg Done. Also see section 'Sociability and reproduction'.
  • What benefit does associating with other species give them? Is there further research on this?
Sorry, no such thing. I think it should be as it is.
  • "Females will urinate to both indicate fertility during the appropriate phase of their estrous cycle, as well as to indicate lack of fertility when harassed by males." needs some grammatical fixes. I'd suggest "Females will urinate to indicate fertility during the appropriate phase of their estrous cycle, as well as to indicate their lack of fertility when harassed by males."
Yes check.svg Done. Really, you are a wonder at fixing sentences!
  • "until the entire herd feels" is unclear. What do they actually do?
Yes check.svg Done. Tried to fix, you may check further.
  • Are the bulls trying to attract the attention of other elands or other species? Please clarify.
Yes check.svg Done. I think it is understood now.
  • Reword "with juvenile elands being more vulnerable than adults".
Yes check.svg Done. Right now, isn't it?
  • Is there anything about how they avoid predators? Survival strategies?
Yes check.svg Done.

I suggest you look at the notes I left in Etymology section, about the expansion. Its work should be finished fast. --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 06:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Habitat and distribution - done[edit]

  • " The species extends north into Ethiopia and most arid zones of Sudan, to the east into western Angola and Namibia, and now even into South Africa (Lydon)" - I would rewrite this as something like "The species extends north into Ethiopia and most arid zones of Sudan, east into western Angola and Namibia, and south to South Africa". I'm not sure what "Lydon" means in this context.
Yes check.svg Done. Wrong thing I wrote, 'Lydon' is redundant.
  • You need "a" before "low density"
Yes check.svg Done.
  • It's not terribly professional to say "poaching, human settlement, etc." Can you specify exactly what the reasons for the low population density are?
Yes check.svg Done.I would omit the 'etc.' and add more.
  • Does that 3 elands/sq mi figure cover their whole area? Either way, can you clarify that in the text?
It is a general estimate where the elands commonly reside.
  • Do you have a citation for it being reintroduced in Zimbabwe?
I can not remember the source I got it from; must be one of the citations in the article only.
  • You need a comma after "bush"
Yes check.svg Done.
  • You need an "and" before "Suikerbosrand NR"
Yes check.svg Done.
  • You need a comma after "dry season".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Is there a citation for the home ranges paragraph?
I can not remember the source I got it from; must be one of the citations in the article only.

Diet - done[edit]

  • This section seems a little thin. It could do with some expansion.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • The phrase "of succulent leaves of flowering plants" should be rewritten so you don't have "of...of"
Yes check.svg Done.

Why does it say that the eland is "mainly" a herbivore? What else does it eat, apart from vegetable matter? I thought the main categories were herbivore, omnivore and carnivore, and that frugivore and foliovore, for instance, were sub-categories sorting under herbivore.Bcarlssonswe (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Sociability and reproduction[edit]

  • "and is especially observed during the rainy season" is unclear.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "a distinct breeding season" is unclear.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "in which some males and females start mating with each other in separate groups" needs rewording and clarification - I'm not really sure what's going on here.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "they is in estrus" should be "they are in estrus". The sentence containing that phrase could use some reordering.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "most dominant and fittest" should be "most dominant and fit".
Yes check.svg Done.
  • You need a comma after "females" in the 2nd paragraph. Also, the first sentence needs clarification.
Yes check.svg Done. How to fix the sentence?
I fixed it.
  • I'm confused about the males - do they stay in the same area or do they roam? You imply both.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "secondly" is unnecessary.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • I would reword "They travel around the plains full of grass in wet periods and during dry periods prefer bushy areas" to "They travel the grassy plains in wet periods and prefer bushy areas in dry periods."
Yes check.svg Done.
  • You don't need to say "in an experiment it was found that", just jump right in and say "Females have a complex linear hierarchy."
Yes check.svg Done.
  • In " It is often thought that it is the mother which determines a female's dominance. ", I wouldn't say "it is often thought that", rather, I would say something more specific.
Yes check.svg Done. Better omit the thing, it is just a belief!
That makes sense then!
  • " In no more than 24 hours the mother and calf join this group. " clarify?
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "according to their sex" is unnecessary.
Yes check.svg Done.

Conservation[edit]

  • Can you clarify "conserved by the US Endangered Species Act"?
Sorry, can not.
  • The population density figure in this section contradicts one in another section.
Can you say which section?
  • You need to clarify "superior meat" or take it out (unless that's a phrase specifically used in the source), it's a bit peacocky for my taste.
Yes check.svg Done. Let it be. It is in the source.
  • I would rephrase "now occur on private land" to "now live on private land".
Yes check.svg Done.

Uses[edit]

  • I would change "utilized" to "used"
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "due to their being more suited to their natural habitat" is awkward. Maybe "because they are more suited to African climates" or something.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "the logo of" is unnecessary, just say "in the coat of arms"
Yes check.svg Done.

Husbandry[edit]

  • I don't like the use of a parenthetical phrase here, but I think surrounding it with emdashes should be ok.
Could you do that?
Yep. Yes check.svg Done
  • I think "sorghums" should be singular, unless there's more than one species they need to eat.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Does your source say it's "pleasant-tasting"? Is there any more specific information about its taste? (I totally want to see eland milk in my local grocery store)
Yes it does. No more info.
  • with "versus several days for cow milk", remove the parentheses and put a comma before the phrase.
Yes check.svg Done.
  • "wild eland" and "common eland" should be plural
Yes check.svg Done.
  • Why is calf survival low?
No such reasons I could find, I think because they do no grow as they do in the wild.
  • I would rewrite " Husbandry requires care as while eland are generally not aggressive, they startle easily and require large amounts of space." as something like "Husbandry requires care because the generally placid animals startle easily and require large amounts of space."
Yes check.svg Done.


OK, just a couple more quick things. I really would like for you to find the citations for it bring reintroduced in Zimbabwe and the home ranges and put in inline citations. For the population density figure, I found it to contradict the one in "Habitat and distribution". I'm in the process of doing a final copyedit, so once you finish those two things and I finish copyediting, I'll pass it. :) Keilana|Parlez ici 16:05, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Zimbabwe reintroduction: I found the citation at last. I decided to omit the sentence from the habitat section and rewrote it in the conservation one.
Home ranges:I cited a journal and another site, looks proper now.
Population density: Well, I rely upon the source of IUCN. I have put it all in the conservation section now.
I have fixed all as I thought proper. Thanks for your patient copyediting! --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 06:40, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

GA review[edit]

With all due respect to the nominator and the reviewer (of GA2) who have made this a well-written article, I see some problems here esp. in the references. Not all of them are templated/done in the same way, and some of them are not to reliable sources. References 3, 4, and 5 are not to a reliable source; surely there are better sources for these etymologies. The citation for ref 7 is incomplete, and ditto for 10 (besides, Oracle Thinkquest is NOT a reliable source). I corrected an error in the template for 16 (and put the notes in the proper order). Note 17 cites a chapter, but the inclusive page numbers aren't given (and it has pp. for a single page). This was a good reason to not pass it as a GA; if these errors are corrected and more, better sources are found, it can maintain GA status. Sorry, but them's the shakes. Drmies (talk) 15:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. I have fixed these errors and added good references for the etymology. --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 05:35, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

MSW3 online[edit]

Is there a reason why FN16 (ref name = wilson) only references the printed version, when there's a much more accessible online version here? The usual way to reference it would be {{MSW3 Artiodactyla | id = 14200717 | page = 696–7}}, giving:

Grubb, P. (2005). "Order Artiodactyla". In Wilson, D.E.; Reeder, D.M. Mammal Species of the World: A Taxonomic and Geographic Reference (3rd ed.). Johns Hopkins University Press. p. 696–7. ISBN 978-0-8018-8221-0. OCLC 62265494. 

--Stfg (talk) 13:29, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. I have put that reference. Thanks for your help! --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 05:05, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

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  1. ^ http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/22055/0