Talk:Convergent evolution

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human convergent evolution[edit]

Hi! There is a request for coverge of this topic at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Natural_sciences/Biology, so I am going to add a section about "color of skin & eyes" under 5. Animals. DennisPietras (talk) 01:11, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm no expert but from my understanding of the definitions given in this article skin lightening appears to be an example of parallel evelolution as the trait in the immediate ancestors was the same. Can you have convergent evolution in different poulations of a single species? Richerman (talk) 21:28, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
@Richerman:Yes, you can have convergent evolution in different populations of a single species! Read the title of the reference: "Association of the OCA2 Polymorphism His615Arg with Melanin Content in East Asian Populations: Further Evidence of Convergent Evolution of Skin Pigmentation". I know what I'm writing about. DennisPietras (talk) 01:40, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
@Richerman:But, I am happy that you made me look at this again, because I had the title of the reference wrong! The title is as I wrote it above, and I've corrected it in the article. DennisPietras (talk) 01:49, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
In that case (and this question is open to anyone reading this), would you agree that there is something wrong with the definition given in the section "Parallel vs. convergent evolution" where it says "When two species are similar in a particular character, evolution is defined as parallel if the ancestors were also similar and convergent if they were not"? Surely the original human population, from which the European and Chinese lineages diverged were all similar in skin colour. Richerman (talk) 07:27, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
If you have a lot to write on the subject, we should make it a separate article, leaving a short summary and 'main article' link here. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:13, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
@Chiswick Chap and Richerman: I don't have much more to write, so maybe just leave this on for a day or so for Richerman to see. You quoted (my bold) "When two species are similar in a particular character, evolution is defined as parallel..." My response is that Chinese and European populations are not different species! DennisPietras (talk) 20:32, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, yes, I'm aware of that, but as the definition only talks about convergent evolution in different species and nothing about how it works in a single species, I assumed the two populations of humans were analagous to different species. However, it looks like that assumption was wrong. Richerman (talk) 23:54, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

potential addition of an almost unbelievable example in bird brains[edit]

Hi folks! There are 2 open papers from the Nature publishing group http://www.nature.com/articles/srep42029 and http://www.nature.com/articles/srep37569 from entirely independent groups as far as I can tell, both of which report the deletion of the DCC gene in 2 different lineages of birds. DCC is crucial for the development of the corpus callosum and other nerual structures that cross the midline of the body, but it is named for its involvement in cancer. Somehow, twice, independently, birds have managed to deal with this deletion and yet have normal neural structures! I'm still shaking my head about this. The reason I ask about this is that the evolution of a process to deal with independent deletion events appears to me to be a classic example of convergent evolution, and is soooooo interesting (Kim Peek, the megasavant that was the basis of the Rain Man movie, didn't have a corpus callosum), yet I fear that the discussion may be too complicated for a general wp reader to understand it. What do you folks following this page think? Thanks for any comments. DennisPietras (talk) 04:55, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Glad you find it so exciting. We should be watchful, specially of the new; and the purpose of the article is not to be an example farm, but to describe the main, well-established points of the field, in this case the nature of convergence. Perhaps the material you mention would make more sense at Corpus callosum. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:28, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
When a review is published noting the convergence, it should definitely be added to the List_of_examples_of_convergent_evolution. However, I think that it's probably too technical for the main Convergent_evolution page. One of the challenges with pages like these are that there are so many examples, that picking the most informative and understandable is challenging! T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 09:38, 13 March 2017 (UTC)