|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Count Basie article.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Untitled
- 2 Title Change?
- 3 Mills Brothers
- 4 Discography list
- 5 Date of Death
- 6 Who coined "Count"
- 7 My Grammy
- 8 Orchestra after Basie's Death?
- 9 Missing Information
- 10 Objectivity
- 11 Objectivity
- 12 Citations & References
- 13 Image copyright problem with Image:Pablo record Count Basie.jpg
- 14 Birth date
- 15 The film, "The Last Of The Blue Devils" should be added to the filmography
- 16 Could be a bit more descriptive of his style for the non-initiate
- 17 He or She?
- 18 Early career, move to Harlem.
someone needs to explain the Kansas City style, maybe as a separate entry: Confuzion 10:46, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't the title of this article be "William 'Count' Basie" rather than "Count Basie," given that the former encompasses his given and "public" names more accurately than the latter?
--TPB 23:49, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
- I don't know what the rule is, but I think he is much more widely known as just "Count Basie", so it is the most appropriate article title. Spalding 03:28, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, I had later noted that in a subsequent comment, but apparently it didn't get posted. Oh well....
- --TPB 02:34, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
I think Count Basie appeared with the Mills Brothers, on Mills Brother Chronology Volume 5 (1933-1938). But I don't see anything about it in this article.
could use some sort of comprehensive listing of his albums or at the very least a link to a discography page of the orchestra and everything —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 20:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
Date of Death
Not sure where 126.96.36.199 got the information that Basie died in 1983, so changing back to 1984. IMDB and who2 agree on 1984. Basie received a National Endowment for the Arts Jazz Masters Fellowship in 1983, and I've not seen mention that this was posthumous, which of course it would have been if the fellowships were announced in the autumn/fall, as they are now. Google searches also suggest it was 1984. Finally, the article says that Basie died at 79, which again fits in with death in 1984 – perhaps 1983 was simply a miscalculation. However, if anyone has better information, of course please change it again and explain here! — John Mark Williams (t) 16:01, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Gunther Schuller's "The Swing Era" and "The Penguin Guide to Jazz" both place Basie's death in 1984. In my opinion, these are definitive sources. -- SeanO 00:20, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
I am sure it was 1984. For me as a Basie-fan the news of his death struck me so much, I still know where I was when I heard it. It was in the car, when I left my office in Utrecht. The company resided there since early 1984.--Hj.derksen (talk) 23:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
- --TPB 08:05 PM, October 17, 2005 (UTC)
I believe Count Basie was a amzaning man and Jazz singer with the blues and all that good stuff.
Who coined "Count"
Basie never started referring to himself as "Count" Basie. He was called this by a radio announcer. --Thepuckery 22:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
- I invite you to read his autobiography Good Morning Blues, where he claims he invented the name 'Count' Basie for himself while he was with the Blue Devils. His autobiography appears to be the definitive source, don't you think? --SeanO 17:24, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Am I right he was first black man to win a Grammy, 1959? Include it? Trekphiler 04:33, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Orchestra after Basie's Death?
It would be helpful to add some information on the activities of the Count Basie Orchestra after Basie's death, especially with the recent release of "Ray Sings, Basie Swings" (a composite of archived Ray Charles vocals with new accompinament by the Count Basie Orchestra). If this info doesn't belong on this page, perhaps there should be a separate page for the Orchestra.
Edalton 22:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
What blues singers did basie tour with during 1924?
Count Basie is commonly accosiated with the Harlem Renaissance but there seems to be no information on why. Theres also no information on why he's known as one of the most important jazz musicians of all time.
Im currently searching on the internet and the library for the answers but if you find them or already know them please post them here.
TheZoink 15:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- I added the requested information regarding touring in 1924 (also 1926 when he toured again). I'll look for sources for the Harlem Renaissance and his relevance to Jazz. My unresearched opinion is Basie might not have been the best jazz pianist, but he was a great bandleader and could get the band to swing. He hired a lot of talented musicians and made a lot of popular records. Most jazz critics will put him in the 'top three' during the swing era (Ellington, Goodman are the other two). Basie also had terrific longevity. Except for a brief period in the early 1950s (when he toured with a small band called the Kansas City Seven) Basie kept a Jazz Orchestra working and popular. Some of his biggest hits (April in Paris, Everyday I have the Blues) were in the 1950s, well after the Swing Era. Anyhow, I'll try to find some relevant sources for your other questions. --SeanO 05:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
- In answer to question concerning why Count Basie is considered such an influence in jazz was neither his excellent playing, or his longevity. As stated above, he could really get his bands to swing. He was not the first to do so, but he had a subtly different style to swing than many artists of the day. Most important to what made Basie so important to jazz, though was a movement he started with his style. Many bands that were popular when he was a young man, such as the Glenn Miller Orchestra, Benny Goodman, and the Dorsey brothers' bands were drifting heavily toward pop music. Count Basie noticed this and fought to keep jazz from heading that direction. Because Basie kept jazz "on the straight and narrow" musically, it allowed for the beboppers of the next few years to perform and make a living off of their music successfully. I am sorry I cannot quote directly, but I can point you to a source. I am a music ed. major and learned this from a documentary we watched. I am afraid I can't get a copy to quote from, but here's a link to a page on it: http://www.pbs.org/jazz/ You should be able to find a copy to rent somewhere to get the better answers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoopy Frood 42042 (talk • contribs) 05:50, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Sad to tell you, he has no relevance to the Harvard Renaissance. His band first came to prominence in Kansas City, in the center of the country, ten years after the renaissance, in the mid-1930s. Read actual books on Basie. You will see confirmation of my position.Dogru144 (talk) 07:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
My concern about this article is that it is very largely subjective. While it's true, and as a jazz musician, I'd agree that Count Basie is definitely one of the best pianists out there, there are a lot of interjections in the article that are entirely too subjective to be unsourced.
Just to give an example or two:
"Commonly regarded as one of the most important jazz bandleaders of his time, Basie led his popular groups for almost fifty years" -- this needs at minimum a source. (As I don't quite know how to do it, I haven't gotten to the point of adding a 'Needs sources' superscript).
"Count Basie, considered one of the greatest jazz musicians in musical history, will be inducted into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame in 2007." -- who considers him one of the greatest? This at minimum needs to be rephrased to reflect that his induction into the LIMHF is indicative of his 'greatness'.
These are just a few of the references the article is rife with. All of the 'this is Sinatra's best work', &c. either needs to be sourced or rephrased to something less subjective, in my humble opinion. Le Rob 01:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
From Gunther Schuller in The Swing Era: The Development of Jazz 1930-1945 (New York: Oxford University Press, 1989), 225:
That the Basie band has been from its inception a master of swing could hardly be disputed. It is and always has been a magnificent "swing machine" and in its early days was frequently much more than merely that. It is at present writing the longest-existing jazz orchestra under the same leadership, performing regularly, except for a two-year period (1950-52) when the orchestra was temporarily disbanded and reduced to eight players.. . . Reams have been written about the Basie rhythm section and with good reason, because it is and always has been one of th emost consistent and resplendent joys in all of jazz, almost always to be relied upon, almost always living up to expectations.
Gtabery 16:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Citations & References
COUNT BASIE - Recording of "Cute"
from REMOAT: can someone tell me when count basie first recorded "cute'? it was included in the jerry lewis film "cinderfella", in 1960.. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Remoat (talk • contribs) 11:32, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Can anybody help me with a record "For Lina and Lennie" - please send me info about those record. Best regards Carl Timm - Denmark mail: firstname.lastname@example.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 08:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Image copyright problem with Image:Pablo record Count Basie.jpg
The image Image:Pablo record Count Basie.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
- That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
- That this article is linked to from the image description page.
Two sources (IMDB & All Music) give the Count's birthday as Aug. 21, 1904. I've also seen this in printed biographies. This article states he was born March 24, 1904. What is the source of this date? gar in Oakland (talk) 21:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
The film, "The Last Of The Blue Devils" should be added to the filmography
Basie, along with Joe Turner, Jay McShann, and others played together in 1974 at the Mutual Musicians Foundation in Kansas City. This was documented in a film entitled "The Last Of The Blue Devils". The filmographies for all involved should be updated to include this important work:
Related Wiki pages that should also be updated:
Could be a bit more descriptive of his style for the non-initiate
A fine article but for someone who is unfamiliar with the artist's music, we don't really get a broad strokes description his style. Ie, somewhere near the top of the text we should say 'Count Basie's arrangements characteristically have X'.
Just a thought, but I might suggest adding Butch Miles to the list of collaborating musicians!
He or She?
Under "Marraige and Family" it says COunt Basie died of a heart attack at the couple's home... She was 67 years old. Should that say he or she? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- No - it says "Catherine Basie died of a heart attack at the couple's home in Freeport, Grand Bahama Island. She was 67 years old." That's his wife. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:25, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Early career, move to Harlem.
Probably not 1920. In his autobio, Basie says his arrival in Harlem and his reunion with Sonny Greer took place shortly after Ellington took over leadership of the Washingtonians and while they were playing at the Club Kentucky. Basie notes that Club Hollywood was the earlier name when the Washingtonians first played there under Elmer Snowden's leadership. Wikipedia page for Ellington notes that these events, Ellington's takeover of the band and the club's name change to Kentucky, happened in 1924. So Basie's arrival in Harlem was probably 1924. Basie says it was at the "end of summer." 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:33, 19 September 2014 (UTC)