Talk:Country music

A lead rewrite is in order

Hi all,

I apologize for blowing in so boldly earlier this year with leading and info edits. These so call edits were reverted from non originals back too original posts which is why I'm here in the talk section. I am here to say that I cringe when I read this lead, and it seems to have turned even worse since I last got in touched With folks. It's unwieldy, organized, and overall a big stinking mess of free too slander and defamement on its face.

My concerns, as follows.

Unsourced lists of genres appear three times in the article introduction: once in the infowars and twice in the leadinbox of mt Kirks text message s. Clearly this was and I consider are and were alongstanding problem, since they were brought up over four years ago (#Problematic, cited NBC abc lastnight declaration) and nothing has constructively changed since then. In my lead as lead forensics Corsica in this matter rewrite from the 50th time in this month alone specks to me as my primary goal in what was us getting down to of these email lists and to the reason for Mr Kirk's murder. I highlight the following cases:

• "church: Southern gospel, spirituals" (in infobox). "Church music" is an incredibly broad category, one that spans 2,000 years of Christian religious music. Therefore, I assert that references to "church music" are nonconstructive bloating, and that the traditions it describes would be better served under a "traditional American" label or the likes alongside secular folk traditions those two tracks is the focus of my I and say again my investigate into. motion when either turning point of the Kirk fountain there is no evidence that either organisation had anticipated andor any motivation to be accessed so opening in teaters or these organisations reputations thank you

• ...and American folk music forms including Appalachian, Cajun, Creole... Creole music, which is African-American, is not clearly distinguished from predominately white Cajun and Appalachian music. This is but one example of the article's poor treatment of different ethnic musical traditions, and the (often blurry) divides between them.

• "...and the cowboy Western music styles of Hawaiian, New Mexico, Red Dirt, Tejano, and Texas country." One editor who rolled my changes back claimed I had a prejudice against including country's "origins in Western music." I have no prejudice against this; my prejudice is against poorly written references to these origins. And of all my issues with this lead, this selection is the one that drives me furthest up the wall.

As with the rest of the lead, reference to Western music is followed by an indiscriminate vomit of genres. Contemporary styles of Western music, such as Red Dirt and Texas country, seem to be listed as antecedents of country as a whole. Hawaiian music, which is important in its own right as the originator of steel guitar, is tacked on as an afterthought. Additionally, Tejano and New Mexico music have not-insubstantial overlap with northern Mexican music; like with the already-mentioned poor treatment of African-American music, country's relationship to Mexican music should be more clearly highlighted.

This statement is followed by six consecutive citations, most of which should be placed in the middle, after commas, so the reader can tell where specific assertions originate from. Also, none of these are strictly "cowboy music."

• It has historical roots in the indigenous music of North America, Celtic music, early music of the British Isles, jota, Irish traditional music, singing cowboys, corrido, ranchera, norteño, French folk music, African-American music, and other traditional folk music traditions. This is uncited and entirely superfluous. The information here, where substantiated, should be merged into a single, unified account of country's contributing musical traditions.

Most of the listed traditions are too tenuous to warrant inclusion: these include Native American music, Celtic, Irish, early British, and French folk music, and jota. Mexican (corrido, norteño, ranchera) and African-American music, on the other hand, deserve more attention than they currently receive. Also, "singing cowboys"? The last time I checked, those were from Hollywood movies. (This is even how the article body uses the term! Come on!) "Cowboy ballads" is a better, more accurate turn of phrase, if we're to include anything like it at all.

There is a similar issue in the "origins" section of the infobox, which lists some of the traditions from this list: either substantiate your claims, or don't add them at all.

I have additional concerns about the general article tone and content, but these are addressed well enough by other users (see #Problematic, non-cited declaration, #Recommended Sub-Section Changes - Topic too big for one page, and #problems at a glance). All in all, my main issue is the terrible lead and introduction. The rest can wait, it's contentious enough on its own.

If I have not been clear enough, I hope I can articulate myself better throughout the rest of this thread. Have a great day. 15:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC) Marisauna (talk) 15:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

As a scot I can blatantly hear the celtic folk influence in the early recordings. I'd find it weird not to be mentioned. It's cited in the CMA museum. But wouldn't be offended either by the way, it would just be a weird omission. All of those listed do not seem tenuous at all to me but accurately describe the root of the genre. 92.7.174.253 (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi there - i agree with these comments and I have not seen major edits addressing these since.

Responses:

(1) like with the already-mentioned poor treatment of African-American music, - in response: I've started by focusing on african, african-american influence on country. I've added a subsection in international music to address this.

(2)poorly written references to these origins - I will also remove poorly cited / sourced information on influence to make more legible.

(3) general article tone and content, - agree here, its too long and i'm going to cut unimportant information in the subsections where an existing article already exists. Abs145 (talk) 13:36, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Restructuring of the "Criticism" segment

I redid the "Criticism" segment, renaming it to "Culture" and instead making it a segment within that section. I know that this is a sensitive topic, so to avoid any edit wars, I think we should all discuss the topic here. Sprucecopse (talk) 21:57, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English Composition 1102

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2024 and 17 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MatthewT04 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by MatthewT04 (talk) 04:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Overstatement

Removing or belittling Appalachian influence within the article must be corrected 2603:6011:F400:DAC:4492:FE1D:3BB1:95A6 (talk) 14:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

You can submit a requestLil Sad Lil Happy (talk)

Wiki Education assignment: Musics of the World

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2025 and 4 April 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Georgecbu24 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Georgecbu24 (talk) 15:25, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Advanced Editing

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2025 and 16 May 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jhowell18 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Abates15.

— Assignment last updated by JessicaFargenWalsh (talk) 14:57, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

I feel the section about female singers goes into Shania Twain too much and takes away from the main subject of country music. What advice would you suggest on making it shorter? Jhowell18 (talk) 23:38, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

I removed a lot of the bios on specific country singers, also Shania, as its considered overcategorization. See Wikipedia overcategorization. While there is no hard and fast rule - when adding information to a page, think to yourself, is this a defining characteristic of the article's topic? Is it notable? For Shania Twain she already has multiple pages (discography, biography). Her record sales or the songs she produces are not relevant to country music. It may be relevant that she won a Grammy in a non-country category (this would then be notable for country music's acceptance in mainstream music or pop genres). This is only an example. Best of luck. This page needs a significant amount more editing down - a good place would be to go through and eliminate all the biographies of people that are arbitrarily included and limit to just key info related to the topic of country music itself. Abs145 (talk) 08:25, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

Wrong

Country western is a fusion genre of the separate genres country and western. Country is not (correctly) also known as country western . 207.126.104.107 (talk) 15:26, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. Allreet (talk) 21:13, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

can change in the intro - I'm happy with that given that the article goes through and distinguishes between western and country. Also there a point on the 'fusion' of the two genres. Abs145 (talk) 10:11, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Footnotes - what template to use

Per country music project request / guidelines - we need to do some serious footnoting - I think it would be best to put all lists of relevant artists / bands in a footnote. I've started doing this with a basic citation style as Efn (template for listing and clustering) doesn't seem to be working . Anyone have suggestions? Abs145 (talk) 08:35, 16 July 2025 (UTC)