Talk:Counts and dukes of Aumale

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Untitled[edit]

Is there any evidence that the title was created for Edward by Richard II in his role as King of France? I've never heard this, and I'm not specifically aware that Richard II was even claiming to be King of France in 1397. He'd just made peace with the French the year before. My understanding is that the English kings' consistent use of the King of France title only came after the death of Charles VI in 1422, and was based on the Treaty of Troyes, not the earlier claims of Edward III. 02:23, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. Happily, I found a Usenet message citing the Complete Peerage in re Aumale/Aumarle/Albemarle: "Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester, was summoned to Parliament by writ directed "Carissimo Avunculo Regis Thome Duci Albemarlie. He was declared to be guilty of treason (after death) whereby all his honours were forfeited. Edward, Earl of Rutland, was created Duke of Aumale on 29 Sep. 1397. [CP 1:351-8]" According to the Encyclopedia Anglicana, this was in 1385, but he did not use the style thereafter. My favorite page for citing titulary shows Richard II using the style "Richard, by the grace of God King of England and France and Lord of Ireland" in 1378, 1386, 1390, etc.; it seems to have been consistently used 1369–1420; then dropped by the Treaty of Troyes, and resumed in 1422. Additional samples on the page include Thomas of Woodstock in 1390 (refers to himself only as Duke of Gloucester, Count of Buckingham & Essex, and Constable of England) and Thomas of Lancaster in 1413 (Duke of Clarence and Count of Aumarle). Hope this helps with the Anglo-French business. Choess 19:53, 22 November 2005 (UTC)