Talk:Criticism of Wikipedia

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Note: This is the Talk page for the Wikipedia article on external criticisms of Wikipedia. Users interested in discussing their own problems with the project should go to the Village Pump where there are specific sections for dealing with various issues.
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For critical examination of Wikipedia by Wikipedia itself, see Wikipedia:External peer review/Nature December 2005 (40 science articles) and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2005-10-31/Guardian rates articles (7 articles of general interest).

Article on Wikipedia in the Harvard Educational Review[edit]

This article may be related to this page:

Fall 2009 Issue of the Harvard Educational Review

High School Research and Critical Literacy: Social Studies With and Despite Wikipedia by Houman Harouni

http://www.hepg.org/her/abstract/742

"Drawing on experiences in his social studies classroom, Houman Harouni evaluates both the challenges and possibilities of helping high school students develop critical research skills. The author describes how he used Wikipedia to design classroom activities that address issues of authorship, neutrality, and reliability in information gathering. The online encyclopedia is often lamented by teachers, scholars, and librarians, but its widespread use necessitates a new approach to teaching research. In describing the experience, Harouni concludes that teaching research skills in the contemporary context requires ongoing observations of the research strategies and practices students already employ as well as the active engagement of student interest and background knowledge."

Proposed merge with Racial bias on Wikipedia[edit]

Per arguments made in AfD here: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Racial_Discrimination_On_Wikipedia Padenton|   18:04, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Comment Pinging all editors from AfD. @NawlinWiki, CrazyAces489, ABCDEFAD, Joseph2302, Bosstopher, EvergreenFir, and Winner 42: @Davey2010, Lukeno94, Niteshift36, NinjaRobotPirate, Dai Pritchard, and Vanjagenije: Padenton|   18:10, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Prefer separate - This article is already close to being WP:TOOLONG (Prose size (text only): 43 kB (6763 words)) and the Racial bias on Wikipedia article seems solid/sourced enough to stand on its own. Criticism on Wikipedia is quite ... disjointed? or perhaps trying to cover too much at once and so there's a lot of topics covered briefly and I worry that adding a substantial section like this would exacerbate that. That said, I'm not terribly opposed to a merge either. PS - Thanks for the ping Padenton!EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 18:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article not only details criticism of racial bias of wikipedia, but attempts to discern its origins and describes ways in which people are combating it. It is not just a simple subset of the Criticism of Wikipedia article. Also as already mentioned in the AfD the Criticism of Wikipedia article is ridiculously long as it already is, and cramming more stuff into it is not a good idea.Bosstopher (talk) 18:35, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support - per my arguments in the AfD. 43 kB isn't really that excessive; it's still shorter than, say Criticism of Microsoft (48-49kB) or Criticism of Apple Inc. (85kB, something I would say is too long). Compared to Criticism of Facebook, which is grossly oversized at nearly 170kB, it's relatively tiny. Quite frankly, given the sweeping nature of some of the prose in the Racial bias article, it needs a lot more sources to be valid. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 18:42, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
  • oppose Prefer sseparate as per EvergreenFir. If sourcing is the issue many sources are already in existence in previous versions of the article.

"Wikipedia editing disputes: The crowdsourced encyclopedia has become a rancorous, sexist mess.". Slate Magazine. ^ Jump up to: a b c d e f "Meet the Editors Fighting Racism and Sexism on Wikipedia". WIRED. Jump up ^ "Why is Wikipedia so sexist?". New York Post. ^ Jump up to: a b c d e "Bustle". bustle.com. Jump up ^ Deanna Zandt (26 April 2013). "Yes, Wikipedia Is Sexist -- That's Why It Needs You". Forbes. ^ Jump up to: a b http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/opinion/sunday/wikipedias-sexism.html?_r=0 ^ Jump up to: a b "Sexism". The Other Sociologist - Analysis of Difference... By Dr Zuleyka Zevallos. Jump up ^ Amanda Filipacchi (30 April 2013). "Sexism on Wikipedia Is Not the Work of 'a Single Misguided Editor'". The Atlantic. ^ Jump up to: a b c d e f "Black History Matters, So Why Is Wikipedia Missing So Much Of It?". Co.Exist. ^ Jump up to: a b c examiner.com/article/leading-wikipedian-explains-why-blacks-don-t-volunteer Jump up ^ "PEOPLE v. BAUDER". Findlaw. Jump up ^ "Wikipedia's edit wars and the eight religious pages people can't stop editing". ncronline.org. ^ Jump up to: a b "Wikipedia editing disputes: The crowdsourced encyclopedia has become a rancorous, sexist mess.". Slate Magazine. ^ Jump up to: a b "The 'Five Horsemen' Of Wikipedia Paid The Price For Getting Between Trolls And Their Victims - ThinkProgress". ThinkProgress. Jump up ^ "Editors to Make Black History Wikipedia Entries More Inclusive - Essence.com". Essence.com. Jump up ^ http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/us/at-howard-a-historically-black-university-filling-in-wikipedias-gaps-in-color.html?_r=0 Jump up ^ "Growing Army Of Women Take On Wikipedia - Business Insider". Business Insider. 15 February 2014. Jump up ^ https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/02/23/telling-untold-stories-african-americans-stem ^ Jump up to: a b "Edit-athon aims to put left-out black artists into Wikipedia". philly-archives. Jump up ^ "Can ‘Black Wikipedia’ Take Off Like ‘Black Twitter’?". COLORLINES. CrazyAces489 (talk) 18:49, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

A lot of those were removed for a reason. e.g. ThinkProgress and even far worse, Examiner.com. ― Padenton|   22:07, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This article isn't too long. It makes complete sense to put it here, along with the other common criticisms, than to put a paragraph and a hatnote here that goes to another location. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:53, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per my comments at the AFD - "Admittingly Criticism of Wikipedia is long but personally I don't think we need articles on every detail here so why not shove it there instead". –Davey2010Talk 18:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Racial bias on Wikipedia is a topic that merits its own page that goes into details...that would be purged in this article. -- Moxy (talk) 19:04, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, inspired by Special:Diff/660521433 on {{Wikipedia}}. –Be..anyone (talk) 09:19, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Racial bias is above and beyond criticism; if the topic is deemed notable enough and is supported by reliable sources then it merits its own article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarc (talkcontribs)
  • Oppose - Racial bias on Wikipedia is serious and distinct enough to merit its own page. Readers deserve to know what is going on on the website. Middayexpress (talk) 02:19, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Racial bias on Wikipedia is a problem, if you were African or non-White, especially Muslim or other minorities you would feel it. And it goes beyond just say "Black" references, to a bias against positions held by authentic representations. Or Africans with African centered views which the dominant race class is uncomfortable with. And it is a problem that should be open, and not hidden. Wiki is Eurocentric to the core. --Inayity (talk) 08:26, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - clearly separate topic, with reasonable amount of information. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:46, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - per the numerous reasons mentioned above. AcidSnow (talk) 20:13, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Dougweller (talk) 12:22, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - There's a danger that the Criticism of Wikipedia article just becomes a disjointed collection of only vaguely related issues, and there appears to be enough source material for a separate article on racial bias. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:27, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support - no reason to have articles on each of the reasons Wikipedia is criticised. They should be covered in one article. Zacwill16 (talk) 19:34, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
    • We don't have separate article on each of the reasons. We do have a separate articles on topics which produce big articles. This is how wikipedia works. Please read Wikipedia:Summary style. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:56, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
      • Yes, but at the current length, that is not the section that needs to be spun out. 20:02, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • support for now while a spin out of the topic may be appropriate at a future date, right now there is not sufficient content in Racial bias on Wikipedia that it cannot be included here. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:02, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - For all the reasons cited by others; plus, and I know this isn't meant to figure into the decision, but how will it look if Gender bias on Wikipedia has its own article but Racial bias on Wikipedia is folded into Criticism of Wikipedia (and content will inevitably be lost under the justification of "not relevant to Criticism of Wikipedia" or "we have enough examples" in that scenario)? I will try to find more reliable sources to add. (Yes I'm an IP, no I'm not a sockpuppet.) —2601:19A:4000:4A02:6D37:4742:8E96:A82F (talk) 14:35, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Content removed[edit]

Tarc removed content with part of the summary being

The "OMG TEH LEFTISTS" point...

The editor removed content supported with an article from Western Journalism Center. Perhaps it can be better summarized, or more neutrally worded. But it is criticism of Wikipedia, which is the subject of this article, and to remove it outright based on weight, is IMHO a poor argument.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:02, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

The opinions of fringe think tanks founded by Joseph Farah belong in articles about fringe think tanks founded by Joseph Farah. Nowhere else. Tarc (talk) 13:19, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
It is "fringe" because Tarc said so?--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:50, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
It is clearly a non-notable blog criticism.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:55, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
The article already has several quality sources...the Guardian, the National Post, etc...to support the assertion that the Wikipedia and much of its political articles lean left. Why supplement the critique with a bad source? Tarc (talk) 19:06, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

You failed to notice that the deleted text is not 'criticism'. An best it is a McCarthy-style whistleblowing. How the heck support of Obama is "criticism of wikipedia"? Staszek Lem (talk) 00:50, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Criticism by users[edit]

[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sakiph (talkcontribs) 08:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

@Sakiph: This blog appears to contain many articles that were copied and pasted from other websites. Does it contain any original content? Jarble (talk) 19:29, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
This is blog, and as such it cannot be used as a reference in wikipedia. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)