Talk:Croquet

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Croquet stroke[edit]

What (and when) is the first evidence for the distinctive croquet stroke (presumably the one between the legs, rather than a golfing swing). This seems to be what distinguishes pall mall from croquet.-— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinigi (talk • contribs) 08:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's referring not to the style of swing, but to the stroke played in association croquet after making a roquet, where one ball is lifted and placed adjacent to another.Mhkay (talk) 18:41, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I don't see the rules for each game anywhere???????????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.0.151.51 (talk) 18:44, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you can't see it, put it in. Misa-chan (talk) 04:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Prescott affair[edit]

Resolved
 – Just an FYI.

I have now fully sourced this feature. The '300% increase' was only at the Asda chain. I have deleted the Clarke '£1,000 for the croquet set' story as I cannot source it. This story can go back in if someone can stand it up. TerriersFan 23:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Origins[edit]

Resolved
 – History section rewritten.

This sentence need to be rephrased, it is very conflicting as it is; "Borrowed by the British during the 14th century, the modern game was apparently invented in Ireland in the 1830s..." willandbeyond.com 16:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One of the external links states that the game dates from the 1300's and developed from French-Scottish co-operation. In the 1830's it took on its British form in Ireland, of all places (where it was called Crooky). Any reliable sources for this?--80.4.169.22 23:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. Here's what etymology online says :
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=croquet&searchmode=none
"croquet
1858, from Northern French dialect croquet "hockey stick," from Old North French "shepherd's crook," from Old French croc, from Old Norse krokr "hook." Game originated in Brittany, popularized in Ireland c.1830, England c.1850, where it was very popular until 1872."
82.241.221.24 21:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've rewritten the History section based on information in Nicky Smith's book. There's an awful lot of oft-repeated myth in this area, and this book (while not a professional history) has a reasonable analysis of the original evidence for the two main theories, which I've tried to summarise into a couple of paragraphs.

Mhkay (talk) 17:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stingers?[edit]

Resolved
 – Evidently not of encyclopedic interest - no response in almost 3 years.

This may just be something that the Philolexian Society at its annual Croquet Tea does, but does anyone know anything about stingers (Croquet Rules: Philo Style: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/philo/content/about/events/croquet.htm) Valley2city 18:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gropher term[edit]

Resolved
 – WP:NOR.

During croquet matches played in the snow at UBC, the defensive technique was devised utilizing the snow. By purposely burrowing your ball in the snow, you can protect you ball from being croqueted by other players during the round. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JStor (talk • contribs) 02:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

When you can provide a citation of a reliable source that discusses this neologism, you may include it in the page.--chris.lawson 02:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention that is obviously unsportsmanlike conduct (a.k.a. cheating). — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the AC rules say anything specific about playing in snow. Although they say in rule 7 that "weather" is not an outside agency, I don't think that snow lying on the ground is "weather" as such, so perhaps it is indeed an outside agency, and under rule 7c should therefore be removed when it might affect play... Mhkay (talk) 21:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fund raiser Wicket Soiree in Aug 07[edit]

Resolved
 – Off-topic chatter.

We are having a fund raising fro Breast Cancer. The theme is Wicket Soiree. We will be setting up several croquet courses.There will be between 880 - 150 people. The center pieces for 8 o the tables will be a croquet ball - probably foam or styrofoam on a green turf with a wicket over it. We also have 8 high stand at tables -- Any ideas for table decorations for these???? Table decorations anywhere else????? Thaks for any ideas. D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.248.235.139 (talk) 13:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

This is not a discussion board. Wikipedia article talk pages are for article improvement. Please try a croquet chat site for fund-raiser idea requests like this. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 21:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing. Where are the rules?[edit]

This article discusses the different versions of croquet without setting down the basic rules first. There isn't even a section called "Rules." What are the basics? Who goes first? How does one set it up? - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 17:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The rules depend on what version you're playing. You can find different sets of rules in the external links section. --Runner5k 17:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to have to view external links on Wikipedia to get information that should be included on the page. Can't that information be added? - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 00:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed the same deficiency a few weeks ago and added a brief summary to the "Association Rules" section. How much detail do you want? - Mhkay 17:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think the most common form should have a rules section which would include subsections on Setup, Rules and Scoring. Each variation of the game after that could note how it differs from the main version. Backyard Croquet may differ from Association so dramatically that it needs a rules section of its own. - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 20:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do keep in mind WP:NOT#GUIDE, however. We don't want to get overly-detailed. If somebody's interested in documenting the rules very specifically, it should go in Wikibooks and have a link from here.—Chowbok ☠ 17:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(Outdent) Don't be paranoid about WP:NOT. Yes, WP is not a guidebook or instruction manual, but articles on sports are darned near worthless if they do not lay out the rules (either in-article, or with a side article), and the articles here on every major sport do so. For a potentially good example of how to handle this, see Snooker and its various sub-articles, including Rules of snooker. Croquet is slightly complicated, in that it has some variations. I would suggest that the Croquet article be kept fairly lean, and that a Rules of croquet article be created, with sections for the notable variants. Another tactic could be that of Pocket billiards, which lays out the history of this general class of games and some short summaries of the major game types, with each game (i.e. rules variant) having its own article, with rules details confined to those. I think that the former layout would work better for croquet, as the number of sourceable variants is quite limited, in stark contrast to pool, which has literally over 100 sourceable variants. a Rules of croquet sectioned article would be fairly tidy, while a Rules of pocket billiards article would be the size of a Stephen King novel. Roque is an exception. The Rules of croquet article should summarize the rules differences, but the Roque article is already quite well-developed. I am skeptical that such a level of development would be practical for every croquet split-off like golf croquet, etc. PS: Folks, please stop capitalizing game names. It's "association croquet", just like "association football", "basketball", "three-cushion billiards", etc. The only time a capital letter should appear in a sport/game name is if that word is a proper name in its own right (e.g. "Basque pelota", not "basque pelota" nor "Basque Pelota"). — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 19:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Revisiting[edit]

I'm revisiting this topic because, plainly, this article sucks as an introduction to the sport for someone with weak passing knowledge of it, let alone for someone who knows nothing. It's practically useless, frankly. It needs to be completely overhauled and rebuilt not to focus on obscure irrelevant historical factoids and instead focus on a description of the game (the actual subject of the article!) that can be read to get at least some understanding of how the game is played. first and foremost. For that purpose the article is woefully disjointed, and completely inadequate. I would make such edits myself, but frankly I lack to competency of the subject matter to do such. After all, that's why I was trying to read the article in the first place! oknazevad (talk) 17:42, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Local variants[edit]

While it's fascinating to hear about some of the local variants of the game that exist (and one of the delightful things about Wikipedia is that it would be almost impossible to collect this information any other way), it's very hard to verify that any of this has any significance, and one suspects that in some cases the contributors of these variants have very little idea whether or not they are played outside their own circle of friends.

There's a danger that so many of these variants exist that in time the article will start to be dominated by them, distracting from information about the official game.

Mhkay (talk) 19:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed unsourced Vermont cruft[edit]

I have removed the following material from the "Golf croquet" section, as it reads like a local-pride vanity edit, has zero sources, is in non-encyclopedic language, and honestly isn't particularly plausible anyway:

An extreme variant of golf croquet{{Clarify me|date=June 2009|reason=What is supposed to be so "extreme" about it? You can't just label something with a wild superlative like this without a) sources and b) explanation.}} is played in [[South Hero]], [[Vermont]], called '''EC golf croquet'''. The summer event features 6 weeks of tournaments with 32 teams participating each week.{{Facts|date=June 2009|reason=This sounds like a local vanity edit. Independent, reliable sources are needed or this entire paragraph will be deleted.}}

— SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 19:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup request June 2009[edit]

Could whoever added the box saying "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards." please indicate how they think the article needs to be cleaned up? What is the objection to "Here is..."? Do you just want it to use more pompous language, such as "The interested reader may care to observe the following..."? Mhkay (talk) 09:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Lillie[edit]

If anybody is interested I have an original copy of Croquet:It's History Rules and Secrets by Arther Lillie, published in 1897. Arthur Lillie was champion i 1872 and all-comers winner in 1896. It includes copies of original correspondance and some action shots such "Mr Bonham-Carter, playing as usual without his hat". If anybody is interested I can search for information and/or scan pictures. Cheers. Fainites barleyscribs 12:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More modern image[edit]

Hello,

I think having a painting from the late 1800's at the top of the croquet page only helps to reinforce the stereotype that croquet is a game from a bygone age. I'd like to offer a photo of mine as a replacement, or as an addition to sit beside the painting, to help give the impression that croquet is alive and well as a modern sport.

Depending on how much I've learned about Wiki editing this lunchtime, my photo may or may not appear below...

Cheers.

Winnywinn (talk) 15:33, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cricket![edit]

why no mention? the 2 games are closely related, both historically and etymologically. (not to mention the fact that most yanks can't tell them APART....) 209.172.25.210 (talk) 22:32, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you have evidence that cricket and croquet are related either historically or etymologically, please supply it. Mhkay (talk) 02:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The varient Snooker is not notable enough to warrant a whole section.[edit]

If it is going to be included at all the snooker varient would be better placed on the snooker page and not here on the croquet page. As it only seems to be played by a few people on one patch of grass at one croquet club a mention in the list with bicycle croquet and extreme croquet. If it survives and spreads to other clubs and countries that will be the time for it to have a whole section of its own. What do others think? Should I go ahead and delete it? MidlandLinda (talk) 21:06, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree entirely. I think it's probably one of those variants known only to one small group of friends. Go ahead and kill it, in my view. Mhkay (talk) 22:47, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree - remove it. Maybe thought needs to be given to splitting out all the variations into a separate item. Cnwilliams (talk) 08:28, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. MidlandLinda (talk) 21:52, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

I struggle with the pronunciation, but I believe both pronunciations for croquet are 'krok-ay' and not 'krok-ee', but it appear in Australia, it is pronounced 'krok-ee'. Can someone please confirm this and cite whether the Australian pronunciation is official or incorrect? 121.220.206.129 (talk) 09:23, 26 January 2014 (UTC) x-post from Wiktionary: Croquet[reply]

I don't know what it means for a pronunciation to be official or correct. Australians pronounce things the way they choose, not the way anyone tells them to. In England it is pronounced crow-kay with the accent on the first syllable, which is a poor English attempt at trying to sound French. Americans tend to pronounce these French-derived words (ballet, buffet) with the accent on the second syllable.

Reorganise history[edit]

The section starts with: "The oldest document to bear the word croquet with a description of the modern game is the set of rules registered by Isaac Spratt in November 1856 with the Stationers' Company in London. "

-but it's pretty clear that it should start with the Irish origin in the 1830s, and then go on to England in the 1850s. As in Chronological order. Obviously the first mention in England of it being played in England was in 1856, which is hardly surprising.PatrickGuinness (talk) 10:31, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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W. C. Fields[edit]

I removed the following from the In art and literature" section.

  • W.C. Fields, in one of his films [name needed], when asked if he knew how to play croquet, claimed to have invented the game, "playing tournaments and also lecturing." After tripping on a wicket, he was proven a liar when he asked angrily, "What lousy lout placed all these wires in the lawn?"

It could possibly be added if it wasn't explicitly incomplete information.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Section on equipment sorely needed[edit]

Above I described my dissatisfaction with the coverage of the rules of the game in this article, as the article poorly dives right into describing the differences between the rules variations without giving an adequate overview of the general gameplay elements that all the versions have in common. I realize that's in part because there's no actual dedicated section on the game equipment, leaving some allusions to the glossary section (which itself is a poorly formatted thing full of trivia. This isn't a glossary article, and it does not belong here.) Again, this article is exceedingly poor as an introduction to the sport. oknazevad (talk) 11:43, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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