Talk:Cross pattée

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Image problems?[edit]

The cross pictures in the article have seemingly been replaced with purple "contradiction" icons instead? I reverted it to the prior version. Corma 18:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction[edit]

This article is unclear, and possibly contradicts itself on certain details:

  • Why is Cross-Pattee-alternate2.png a "proper" patée, but Cross-Not-Pattee-Not-Maltese.png not? They both have triangular arms.
  • The article says Cross-Pattee-alternate.png is not true patée, but the Knights Templar's is. The image of the cross on the linked page is Cross of the Knights Templar.svg, even further removed from the standard patée, with smaller, triangular serifs.

Going by the definition "cross that has arms which are narrow at the center, and broader at the perimeter", Cross-Not-Pattee-Not-Maltese.png is definately a patée, and Cross-Pattee-alternate.png probably. I'll do my best to make the article consistent, if no-one has posted any objections by...whenever I remember to check this page. boffy_b 21:19, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


I was trying to do my best with the sometimes contradictory materials I have available to me -- Cross-Pattee-alternate2.png is the ONLY definition of the phrase "Cross Pattee" given in the multivolume Oxford English Dictionary (1st edition), yet specialized works on heraldry generally use the "Iron Cross" definition, so both seem to have to be recognized as valid. Cross-Not-Pattee-Not-Maltese.png is not an Iron Cross, and doesn't meet the definition of "nearly filling the square", so it falls into a gray zone. Cross-Pattee-alternate.png is well-known in continental European heraldry, but it seems rather dubious whether it meets the ordinary definition of the English-language term "Cross Pattee". AnonMoos 07:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up. I'd try to add something on this historical contradiction to the article, but I'd probably break the facts in the process.boffy_b 12:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I expanded the discussion in the "doubtful examples" section. AnonMoos 08:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

An example of a doubtful example: Image:Flag_of_Volhynian_Oblast.svg ... AnonMoos (talk) 17:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I am here to clarify a couple things. First pattee is only giving direction to the proper pronunciation of Pate, which is proper spelling of the cross. It is because of variances in tongue that various spellings occur to address the tonguing conflicts as Paw tay, big hands and clumsy feet. The name Pate has many meanings and the crown, head and brain is a few others. You can also find the name used with proper tongue in German which means "the Godfather" in which the Christian adaptation either takes out "father" and just goes with God or take the word the and injects it in the center making God the Father. It is derived off of the ancient lineage that you will find in ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt plus many others. In Egypt by example its the Ptah and in ancient Pompeii it uses both Ptah and Pateco as a name of a deity, in other parts of Greece and Rome the ruling class were known as Patricians. In Egypt the ruling class were called Paat whilst the reverse was Maat. Now secondly Pate is not a feminine word/name it is male. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.167.197.253 (talk) 23:36, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
First off, the English terms of blazoning were borrowed from older French a long time ago, and have undergone centuries of development on their own, so that their "correctness" is not defined by modern standard French usage or spelling. Second the Ptah thing is unfortunately complete nonsense. Third, I hope you aren't the same as 178.203.233.11... AnonMoos (talk) 21:27, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Nestorian cross[edit]

The article does not mention at all the Nestorian cross which I know little about but which is very similar. __meco 13:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

Per the November 20120 tag in this article, I've put a mergeto tag in Cross pattée (crown) and suggest that that stub should be merged here, since it's title is an unlikely search term. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:56, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Done. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)