Talk:Crow people

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Cag930.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:43, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

For a people with such a storied history almost none is given here. I think the article would be greatly improved if someone with some knowledge of Crow history were to edit the page. I would but I am woefully ignorant of the subject (which is how I found my way here in the first place.

I will have to get my sources together and add some history of their long wars with the Lakota and shorter wars with others and their alliance with the U.S. cavalry. "They moved west" is a very dry summary of what actually happened. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no mention yet of the wars with the Lakota or the scouts who served with the U.S. Army. No mention of the Crow scouts who warned Custer before the fight on the Greasy Grass. I'm too tired right now but I will put some of this stuff in if no one else wants to. 76.28.103.69 (talk) 00:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)Will in New Haven76.28.103.69 (talk) 00:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What kind of tools did they use?

Weird image text[edit]

What's up with the [[Image:|125px|Flag of The Crow Nation]] text in the infobox? Zoe (216.234.130.130 00:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC))[reply]

Matriarchy[edit]

I had an anthropology professor (cited in the page: Rodney Frey), an "honorary Crow member" who stated d that the Crow were polygynous prior to colonization. While I could see that, theoretically, a polygynous culture could be matriarchal, could they be matrilineal? -- Juniorvarsity

Yes, they were polygynous. All information points to them being matrilineal. The Blackfoot were also polygynous. However, the Blackfoot were multilineal. -- WiccaIrish 00:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the statement that the Crow were a "matriarchal tribe (females obtaining high status, even chief)." There was no citation to support it. The fact that females obtained high status does not make the society matriarchal; otherwise the U.S. would be a matriarchal society. Female chiefs are discussed in the Chiefs section. Eterry (talk) 15:01, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Martriarchal" is a very strong claim and I doubt it can be backed up. However, women did achieve fame and prominance among the Crow, one warrior named Pretty Shield being well-known. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Well I think that it doesn't matter at all cu'z it's just marriage.There's no point to such an ignorant and uneaded practice.

A source —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.113.162 (talk) 16:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bisexuality[edit]

How can all of them be bisexual? How is this known, from where does this information come and has there been any study made into this most bizzarre phenomenon? User:Vegfarandi 17:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was vandalism. It has now been reverted. -- WiccaIrish 23:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Buffalo jump[edit]

The Crow article claims that a woman chief invented the buffalo jump in the 1500s, but the link to the definition of buffalo jump says that this practice became prevalent in 100 ad, before the advent of the bow and arrow. Definitely a large discrepancy.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.212.132 (talk • contribs)

Chief Running Coyote was a man, not a woman. Re-read that section. -- WiccaIrish 07:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To revive this, there's still a 1,500 year discrepancy between this article and buffalo jump, and a 4,000 year discrepancy between this article and Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump. Kmusser (talk) 20:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I didn't have no notion that them there buffalo's jumped! I's was think'n that they's was shot by them Injun's wit bows a`n arrers a'n stuff. I reck'n I's was wrong agin. And I also got ta figure'n that...uh...ohh what's's face...that'a "Chief Pranc'n Fox"...er no..."Run'n Coyote"! Yah! That's was it! "Run'n Coyote". Huh! Well anyways, I thought that it was a lassie that was doi'n the all the brainstorm'n.Guess I was wrong agin.Agin.

Jed Clampett —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.113.162 (talk) 16:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

reigion- unknown —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.79.64.34 (talk) 19:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

PD photo[edit]

See [1] and [http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/I?ils:1:./temp/~pp_WzSo::displayType=1:m856sd=ppmsca:m856sf=17965:@@@il. Badagnani (talk) 23:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism?[edit]

I've reverted these edits by User:MountainCrow1 because of the lack of punctuation in the first sentence, the strange word "biishtaasheelaa" and the "kick-in-the-bellies" part of the tribe but on further investigation the latter doesn't seem too incorrect. I'm not knowledgeable of the subject and hope that someone better informed can take a closer look and revise if necessary. Sciurinæ (talk) 16:08, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Role In Indian Wars[edit]

Is there anymore information on why the Crow nation seemed to provide so many US cavalry scouts. Did the crow have many major fights with white settlers as they never seem to be mentioned in histories compared to other tribes/nations like the Lakota or Arapahoe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.86.71.241 (talk) 14:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Crows provided scouts to the U.S. army because they found their land invaded by their enemies in the Lakota tribe. All major fights between the Lakota and the U.S. army were fought on battlefields located in Crow Indian treaty guaranteed territory according to the Treaty of Fort Laramie (1851). If you mark where fights like the Fetterman Fight, Wagon Box Fight, Hayfield Fight, Battle of the Rosebud, Battle of the Little Bighorn were fought, then you will find them located in 1851 Crow Indian treaty territory - not in 1851 Lakota Indian treaty territory. "The Sioux wants to get our country, but we will not let them have it", said Crow chief Blackfoot after a fight with the Sioux on Pryor Creek in the Crow Indian Reservation in 1873. The whites had no monopoly on taking land from the Indians. By providing scouts to the army, the Crows hoped to stop the advancing Lakotas. Like a number of other tribes (the Ponca, the Hidatsa, the Pawnee, the Flathead, the Assiniboine, the Gros Ventre of the Plains or the Atsina and the Omaha just to give some), the Crow tribe can't tell of many (if any) fights with settlers or the U.S. army. Injustices - sure, but nothing like Sand Creek. Naawada2016 (talk) 15:56, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No Johnson?[edit]

I feel there should be a mention of Liver Eatin' Johnson. Even if his defeat of the 20 bravest and skilled warriors in the Crow nation was untrue, the legend lives on. The movie "Jeremiah Johnson" isn't mentioned and it should be. The book "Crow Killer" should also be mentioned, can "Depiak Absaroka" be forgotten? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.160.97.160 (talk) 04:21, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Crow vs Raven[edit]

"The Apsaalooke are also referred to as the Crow, which the white people introduced because of their lack of perfect communication. The bird that the Crow tribe is actually paired with is the raven, which is not widely known."

I don't think this is accurate. Crows and Ravens are the same bird - just like the puma and mountain lion are the same animal. I also think "the white people" isn't a particularly good term to use either. Just wanted to make sure before I made any changes. Eruptflail (talk) 05:59, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The American Crow and Common Raven are different species. But since that sentence you're referring to doesn't have a citation within a mile of it, I'd say do with it what you want. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 16:36, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

File:The Scout in Winter, Crow, 1908, Edward S. Curtis (restored II).jpg to appear as POTD[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:The Scout in Winter, Crow, 1908, Edward S. Curtis (restored II).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on November 29, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-11-29. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:21, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Scout in Winter
A Crow man on horseback on snow-covered ground, probably in the Pryor Mountains of Montana, as photographed by Edward S. Curtis c. 1908.

The Crow had adapted horses by 1740, using them as pack animals (replacing dogs) and also to hunt bison more effectively. Soon they were known as horse breeders and dealers.Photograph: Edward S. Curtis; restoration: Keraunoscopia

Archive – More featured pictures...
Great photo to spotlight! One problem I see is that it's highly unlikely that it was taken in July 1908, so that might want to be looked into. I will if I have time.--KingJeff1970 (talk) 21:50, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the feedback. Have gone with c. 1908 for now. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:49, 9 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Curtis took other pictures of the Crow in 1908. Date is likely right. User:Fred Bauder Talk 05:06, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Crow people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Very good sections on many topics, but strangely, lacks completely of a historical one. Needs historical background, and expansion on a few topics. A few more illustrations wouldn't hurt either. Phaedriel - 16 Feb 06 Needs separate language page ("Crow" language link currently leads back to "Crow Nation" - Skookum1 - 16 Feb 06

Last edited at 23:45, 11 July 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 12:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 29 August 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Woohoo! Another one of my favorite kind of moves! Almost everyone says to move, so even though there is no consensus for any particular title, we're still moving this article. I semi-arbitrarily choose the name originally proposed, but encourage anyone to immediately re-propose a move to either Crow Tribe or Crow tribe, and there will be no privilege granted to the title Crow people as far as being "status quo". In short, MOVED to Crow people. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 04:05, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Crow Nation → Crow people – The name of this tribe is Crow Tribe of Montana not "Crow Nation." If "nation" were retained, it should be lowercase. Since the article is primarily about the people, "Crow people" fits established naming protocols and avoids potential confusion with the crow bird. Yuchitown (talk) 16:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC) --Relisting.   samee  converse  18:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Cherokee Nation is actually named "Cherokee Nation." The name of this tribe is Crow Tribe of Montana, so either Crow people or Crow Tribe of Montana would work just fine for the title of this article, but "Crow Nation" is a made-up term. Yuchitown (talk) 23:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
  • Support alternate move to Crow Tribe of Montana or possibly just Crow Tribe per WP:CONCISE. Crow people can result in a WP:SURPRISE if someone wants to find out about the mythical karasu-tengu or the fantasy kenku, both of which can concievably be called "crow people". It should probably be a disambiguation.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 00:32, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Any thoughts on "Crow Tribe" versus "Crow tribe"? —BarrelProof (talk) 01:18, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I support Crow Tribe - looking at the category, the vast majority of tribes are capitalized as proper nouns.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 01:32, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • It's also overwhelmingly capitalized in RS. Colin M (talk) 03:28, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yuchitown, Zxcvbnm, and Colin M: Yuchitown is correct that the appropriate names here are either Crow people or Crow Tribe of Montana, per WP:ETHNICGROUPS. "Tribe" is used in proper names but when it's just for disambiguation, "people" is what we use to avoid the problems of the term "tribe".--Cúchullain t/c 15:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • But "Crow Tribe" is used as a proper name (which is why it's almost always capitalized). The problems with the word "tribe" as described in WP:ETHNICGROUPS don't seem to apply to this situation, since "Crow Tribe" is a name with which the group self-identifies (per their website). Colin M (talk) 15:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
              • If "Crow Tribe" is what they're usually called, that's fine. However, this website uses "Crow Tribe of Indians". To me it seems that simply "Crow" is the most common name for them, in which case "Crow people" would be the usual disambiguation.--Cúchullain t/c 15:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
                • The emblem at the top of the page says just "Crow Tribe". "Crow Tribe" is also the title of one of the headings in the navbar at the top. It's also used to prefix the names of bodies like "Crow Tribe Executive Branch" and "Crow Tribe Judicial Branch". Colin M (talk) 15:40, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Crow Tribe of Montana is fine, since that is the name of the tribe and supports tribal sovereignty. Echoing Zxcvbnm, it's a name, so tribe should not be lowercase. An administrator would probably have to make the move, since it's been edited twice as a redirect. Re: what would happen to Crow people, this article would overwhelmingly qualify as the wp:primarytopic (just look at the incoming links for Crow people). Yuchitown (talk) 02:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
  • Support Crow Tribe. Widely used in RS, and also seems to be the most frequently used term used on their official website. I think the current title, Crow Nation, is fine too - it's also used widely in RS (and is virtually always capitalized). Crow people would be my third choice. I would oppose Crow Tribe of Montana, per WP:CRITERIA: The title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects.. Also, the longer name seems potentially misleading or confusing, given that, according to the article, they historically had a wider range than just Montana. And most importantly, it's not the WP:COMMONNAME, appearing less frequently in RS than all other options. Colin M (talk) 03:26, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Crow tribe. There seems to be consensus that this is the common name, but I've looked at sources and they are very mixed. Thus per MOS:CAPS we must use the lowercase title, "Crow Tribe" is not recommended.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:38, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Crow people. That's the appropriate styling according to WP:ETHNICGROUP. Other than certain cases like proper names (eg, Seminole Tribe of Florida), "tribe" is deprecated in titles for being nebulous and potentially problematic.--Cúchullain t/c 15:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support move to Crow people, as it is WP:CONSISTENT with other similar article titles. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:30, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why are there are no pictures of women?[edit]

By my count there are approximately 17 pictures in the article that depict people in photographs or drawings, and there is a total of about 100 people shown in those pictures. All of them appear to be men. Not just the Crow, but the non-Crow people too – they are all men. What's up with that? My calculator tells me that the chance that 100 people chosen at random will all be men is about 1 out of 1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376. That's a very small number. —BarrelProof (talk) 11:25, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Pauline Small on horseback..." is one image of a woman. But feel free to find and add photos of Crow Tribe women and contemporary people as well. Yuchitown (talk) 16:08, 30 August 2019 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
OK, but she is so small in that picture that no one could tell tell she's a woman unless they read the caption. I see that you moved that picture to the top. I guess that improves the man/woman balance slightly, but I'm not sure it is the best choice for the picture at the top, since the picture that was there before seemed better at showing the distinctiveness of the Crow people. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:23, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, I believe the probability that 100 randomly chosen people will include only 1 or fewer women is about 101 out of 1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376, or 1 out of 12,550,996,041,863,657,440,561,417,875. That's still a very small number. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:44, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

adding redlinked individuals from main article space[edit]

Here are redlinks I removed from the article, just in case anyone wants to create articles for these individuals. Yuchitown (talk) 20:24, 8 December 2019 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Mountain Crow (Awaxilawaxamilomileaxapáakeree)[edit]

  • Itchuuwaaóoshbishish ("Red Plume (Feather) At The Temple", better known as Is-she-u-huts-ki-tu / E-she-huns-ka or Long Hair, *c.1750; †1836); Ashbacheeítche ("Chief Of The Camp", band chief) of the entire Mountain Crow Band and Medicine man during fur trading days, signed together with 15 other Mountain Crow leaders the 1825 Treaty of Friendship at Mandan Village with the US government, Traders and trappers called him Long Hair because of his extraordinarily long hair, approximately 25 feet long. At his death, his hair was cut off and maintained by tribal leaders. The long lock of hair is now held by the Chief Plenty Coups State Park at Pryor, Montana.
  • Daxpitcheehísshish (in English known as Red Bear, *c.1807; †1860s); Bacheeítche (local group leader), known and feared as warrior and war leader (pipe carrier) during the 1840s and 1850s.
  • Déaxitchish / Déahĭtsĭśh (better known as Pretty Eagle, *1846; †1905); Bacheeítche (local group leader) and noted war leader (pipe carrier) against historical enemy Lakota and Pawnee, supported the enlisting of Crow scouts for the US Army in fighting enemy tribes (Lakota, Arapaho, and Cheyenne), as great diplomat he often accompanied other important Crow chiefs on their delegations to Washington D.C to discuss issues regarding Crow rights, in 1890 he was designated by US government officials "head chief" of the Crow Tribe – in spite of the traditionally elected Ashakée (principal chief) Plenty Coups, he would become an important reservation-era leader.
  • Alaxchiiaahush / Alaxchíia Ahú ("Many War Achievements"; in English Plenty Coups – "counting many coups (war achievements)", *c.1848; †1932), born as Chíilaphuchissaaleesh ("Buffalo Bull Facing The Wind"); because of his war deeds and bravery against enemy Lakota, Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Blackfoot he became 1876 Ashbacheeítche ("Chief Of The Camp", band chief) of the entire Mountain Crow Band, last traditionally elected Ashakée ("Owner Of The Lodges" – principal chief / head chief, chief over all of the chiefs) of all three Crow (Apsáalooke) Bands, he promoted peace between the Crow and Shoshone and allied the Crow with the whites against the fighting Lakota, Dakota, and Cheyenne (who opposed white settlement of the area), Crow scouts were fighting for the United States Army in the Great Sioux War of 1876, he was an important head chief and visionary leader, great warrior, peacemaker, and a great diplomat.

River Crow (Binnéessiippeele)[edit]

  • Daxpitchée Daasítchileetash ("Bear Whose Heart Is Never Good" or "Bad Heart Bear"), legendary 17th-century chief – maybe a mythical figure – according to tradition because of a dispute over a bison stomach with the real Hidatsa Band he gathered his following leading them westward to join the already settled there Mountain Crow Band; his following would become the core group of the historic River Crow Band.
  • Awé Kúalawaachish ("Sits In The Middle Of The Land"), also known as Káamneewiash/Kam-Ne-But-Sa ("Blood Woman") and Iché Shipíte (better known by the English translation of this name as Blackfoot, c. 1795; †1877); after the death of Eelápuash / Arapoosh in 1834 he became Ashbacheeítche ("Chief Of The Camp", band chief) of the entire River Crow Band and after the deaths of Chief Daxpitcheehísshish (Red Bear) of the Mountain Crow in 1862 and Chief Chíischipaaliash ("Twines His (Horse's) Tail") of the River Crow in 1867, he was elected Ashakée ("Owner Of The Lodges" – principal chief / head chief, chief over all of the chiefs) of all three Crow (Apsáalooke) Bands, therefore his people gave him a new name: "Sits In The Middle Of The Land". He used the metaphor of the four base tipi poles to describe the borders of Crow Country.
  • Eelápuash / Arapoosh ("stomach ache" or "Sore Belly", often mistranslated in historical accounts as Rotten Belly, *1795; †1834); Ashbacheeítche ("Chief Of The Camp", band chief) of the entire River Crow Band, a contemporary and contrary of Itchuuwaaóoshbishish (Red Plume (Feather) At The Temple), refused to sign the 1825 Friendship Treaty, because the River Crow feared to give up tribal sovereignty, 1834 the River Crow under his leadership lay siege to Fort McKenzie on the Missouri River, but were repelled by enemy Blackfoot warriors, thereby Eelápuash / Arapoosh was killed by the Blackfoot (this Fort would become the gateway for the 1837 Great Plains smallpox epidemic that killed a third of the Crow between 1837 and 1840).
  • Chíischipaaliash ("Twines His (Horse's) Tail" or "Rotten Tail", *c. 1800; †1867); Ashbacheeítche ("Chief Of The Camp", band chief) of the entire River Crow Band in the 1840s; later he was elected to be Ashakée ("Owner Of The Lodges" – principal chief or head chief, chief over all of the chiefs) of all three Crow (Apsáalooke) bands in the 1850s and 1860s, also a great medicine man and noted war leader (pipe carrier).
  • Itchúua Chíash ("White Temple") or Uuwatchiilapish ("Iron Bull", *c. 1820; †1886); prominent warrior and after Chíischipaaliash second Bacheeítche (local group leader) of the River Crow.

Kicked In The Bellies (Eelalapito)[edit]

  • Peelatchiwaaxpáash ("Raven") or PédhitšhÎ-wahpášh ("Medicine Crow"); a prominent Bacheeítche (local group leader) of the Kicked In The Bellies, war leader (pipe carrier), and later a reservation-era chief.

Warrior women/female leaders[edit]

  • Bíawacheeitchish, better known as "Woman Chief" (the English translation of her name and rank) or sometimes Barcheeampe ("Pine Leaf", *c. 1790/1806; † 1854/1858) was a female Bacheeítche ("Good Men" or chief), war leader (pipe carrier) and warrior, she became one of the Crows' most significant leaders, joining the Council of Chiefs as the third ranking member.
  • Akkeekaahuush ("Comes Toward The Near Bank", *c. 1810; †1880); together with her husband, Knife, she was a feared war leader against enemy tribes; once captured by Piegan Blackfoot, she escaped and returned to her people.
  • Biliíche Héeleelash ("Among The Willows", *1837; †1912); well known female leader of bands against enemy Lakota, which would pressure from the east on ancestral Crow territory, fought in the legendary Battle of Rainy Butte (called the "Battle Where Sitting Bull's Father Was Killed", by the Lakota) of 1858/1859, a significant victory over approaching Lakota.
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