Talk:Croydon

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Government Status[edit]

The quote put in the lead "part of the London conurbation, rather than a place with a character and identity of its own" , comes from the body of the article. Why should a citation be needed |date=August 2014 in the lead, as requested by A P Monblat rather than in the body? The quote seems important concerning Croydon not getting city status. SovalValtos (talk) 18:16, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

In context in the body of the article where the City bid is discussed at some length, that statement might have been acceptable, as it is a quote of someone's judgement, and not presented as unalloyed fact. It was clearly the way the judges explained their decision. It is definitely not sufficiently notable an opinion to be singled out for repetition in the lead. The fact that Croydon is part of London is already made perfectly clear at the very beginning of the lead. There is absolutely no need to underline that fact by quoting twice in one article what someone said 22 years ago. A P Monblat (talk) 19:25, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Population stats: defining the town[edit]

The 24 wards of the London Borough of Croydon

Re recent edits by IPs concerning the population of Croydon, I am reverting to the original version (per WP:BRD), and opening a discussion here.

Here are the facts. This article is about the town, the urban settlement, of Croydon. It isn't about any of the other larger administrative areas that have also been called "Croydon" – the ancient parish, the County Borough of Croydon, or the London Borough of Croydon – though it necessarily includes limited discussion of them in places.

The town isn't a formal entity, so it doesn't have precise boundaries. It was a formal entity in the middle ages and early modern period, when it was defined by the "four crosses" (see "Status" section and note 43): it then extended from north to south along the length of the High Street (i.e. North End and South End were outside the town), west to Old Town and east to Park Lane. Say's 1785 map (in the article) shows that by the end of the 18th century it hadn't significantly outgrown those boundaries. It did, however, become much larger over the course of the 19th century. (I'm not seriously suggesting that we use a strict definition of the medieval town as the basis for this article, but it's a factor worth bearing in mind.) I'm unaware of any other formal definition of the town – of the Central business district (CBD), for example: if anybody does know one, that might be helpful here.

For purposes of counting the population, we are obliged to use ward boundaries. This article has, until recently, defined Croydon for population purposes as the Addiscombe, Broad Green and Fairfield wards, and therefore the population as 52,104. That seems about right to me: it includes the CBD, but excludes most of the residential "suburbs". Recent edits by two IPs have sought to add Selhurst, Ashburton, Woodside, Sanderstead, Purley, Selsdon and Ballards, Croham and Waddon wards, bringing the population total to 173,625. These edits are certainly unsatisfactory in their present state, as they fail to list the wards chosen, which is why I have reverted. Furthermore, in my opinion, they also define the town much too widely: although they exclude the far north, far south and far east of the London Borough, they include, for example, Purley and Sanderstead, which weren't within the ancient parish or the County Borough, and most of whose present-day residents, while paying their Council Tax to the London Borough of Croydon, would deny vehemently that they live in the town of Croydon.

Other opinions or evidence? GrindtXX (talk) 13:00, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

According to a Local government website, the population is 103,058 but this still does not include some of the suburbs which are still within the borough boundary. 94.12.156.72
OK: what local government website? If it's a reputable source, maybe we can cite it and live with that. GrindtXX (talk) 20:35, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

It is called Develop Croydon. But Ashburton, Woodside and Selsdon are still within the town's Boundary. Hidden London describes Selsdon as a southerly outpost of Croydon. While Woodside and Ashburton share the same postcode as Croydon and most residents would describe themselves as living in Addiscombe, one of the wards of Croydon Town centre. This brings Croydon's population to 146,241. Develop Croydon includes the wards of Addiscombe, Broad Green, Fairfield, Croham, Waddon and Selhurst. But when you include the residential suburbs of Ashburton, Woodside and Selsdon, the population is 146,241. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.12.156.72 (talk) 07:09, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Some people may also include the Heathfield ward which brings the population up to 159,454. That is if Heathfield is included in Croydon's population.

This article is about the town. Stats for the borough belong on the borough article.Charles (talk) 17:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

This is not about the borough, the borough is over twice the size and includes other towns like new addington or Norwood — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.12.156.72 (talk) 14:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

The term town only applied to the County Borough of Croydon between 1889 and 1965, after which it became a London borough and ceased to be a 'town'. This article pertains to the neighbourhood of Croydon within the London Borough of Croydon. All articles for neighbourhoods of London refer to them as districts. As such, Croydon is a district of London (within the London Borough of Croydon), not a 'town'. Southlondoneye (talk) 07:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

"Town " is a very subjective expression to the people who live or work in a place or both work and live there. Residents,workers or other people who do nether of these things may treat a place as a town by shopping there or going to the theatre or watching sporting events there. There is also a sense of size and importance to somewhere called a town. People who use a place in these ways will call it "town." (This is different from calling it "a town" but the ideas are linked.) Someone who lives in Leicester or Coventry will call that place "town." People who live in Croydon who work there, shop for clothes and toys there and go to the Ashcroft Theatre regularly may call Croydon "town" but other people who only live there may call Central London "town." Difficulties in the definition of town occur where towns have joined together either because they have all grown together as with Wolverhampton,Dudley,Birmingham etc or where a dominant town, such as London, has expanded to engulf other towns nearby, such as Croydon, Kingston on Thames and Watford. Note of these three watford is not politically part of London but visually it is. History also plays a part. Croydon would have appeared to be a town in medieval or Georgian times whilst Purley and Wallington would have appeared as villages,whilst Addiscombe and New Addington did not then exist at all. Some residennts of Croydon object to being called "London" just as residents of Dudley object to being called " Birmingham." There is evidence of this in the way that editors of this page have regularly called Croydon a town or said it was part of Surrey rather than London. So where does this leave us? Croydon is definitely part of London; politically,visually and economically; but it does probably deserve to be called a town in a way that Purley, Addiscombe, Penge,Clapham and other similar districts of London are not towns. Spinney Hill (talk) 10:09, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Croydon facelift[edit]

We really need a pic. This has to be the easiest one to acquire ever. Please? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

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