Talk:Crucifixion

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Archbishop Joachim of Nizhny Novgorod[edit]

Restoring content adequately sourced on main article page. The term "reportedly" is used intentionally. Per WP:BRD the Bold removal was Reverted. Now we Discuss. ScrpIronIV 15:44, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

It isn't adequately sourced, on the main page for Joachim of Levitsky there are 6 sources (one listed twice). I'll admit I can't access the first one by an Orthodox clergyman which supposedly has this story in it, but none of the other 4 really properly support it at all. The site of the Nizhegorodskaya Metropolitan doesn't mention it at all. It states he was killed by 'unknown bandits' at an unknown date. It also includes an excerpt from a contemporary letter (1921) stating much the same:

 "убит злодеями, напавшими на него с целью грабежа, на даче своего сына Николая Ивановича Левицкаго, близ Севастополя, где жил покойный"

It should be noted furthermore that this account states he was killed at his son's dacha, not even in Sevastopol itself let alone nailed to the doors of the cathedral. This letter is from an Orthodox clergyman imprisoned by the Bolsheviks who would hardly have much interest in absolving them of the crime. I accept it is hardly an eyewitness account but it is better than statements by unknown internet authorities that he was crucified.

One source is an article in Nizhegorodskaya Pravda that merely states he died 'in unknown circumstances'.

Another source is an online biography from 'Kronos' that states he was killed by unknown bandits once again but also relates a "предание". i.e. a tradition, in this case a hagiographic tradition, that he was 'hung upside down', which is not exactly crucifixion although it might be.

The only accessible source to state unequivocally that he was actually crucified in the article is a random Ukrainian Orthodox site which offers no evidence at all and to me doesn't seem like a reliable source.

The Russian language wikipedia does not carry the crucifixion story (although it isn't a great article admittedly) and neither do any of the sources it cites. The site of St Vladimir's Cathedral itself doesn't mention the crucifixion story. Then there is the issue that although the story claims this occurred in April 1920 the Bolsheviks weren't even in control of the city until November of that year.

I am sure others will disagree but I don't think that this is the sort of information Wikipedia ought to carry. If the story has to remain then why not put the allegation, with appropriate caveats, on the page for Archbishop Joachim. Putting 'reportedly' in front of the statement on this page in no way covers the tenuous to the point of unreliable nature of this story. Nothing contemporary supports it, there is no evidence as to when he died, and indeed if he was even killed let alone who might have done it and how. There are not really 'multiple sources' for the story, not in the main article anyway as claimed, and the preponderance of sources refrain from making any definite statement as to the least facts of his death. 'Reportedly' makes this sound like something generally agreed or believed, if not universally accepted, and this simply isn't the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.220.233 (talk) 16:25, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I might add that the Russian Orthodox Church itself seems to favour the idea he was killed at a dacha by thieves:

"Archbishop Joachim Levitsky left to Moscow for the Local Council in summer 1917 and then went to the Crimea, where he had a country house, and was hanged there by bandits."

see https://mospat.ru/archive/en/2005/07/9813/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.220.233 (talk) 16:53, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Help needed at Crux simplex[edit]

The Crux simplex article--which I just added a blue link to--has had some sub-standard editing. Part of the problem--which I attempted to fix--is ungrammatical English. Another is lack of citations. Anybody willing and able to help there? Thanks! YoPienso (talk) 02:42, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

sleep deprivation[edit]

I think the idea behind crucifixion was to make it impossible for the victim to sleep. As long as they were awake they could support their weight on their feet but as soon as they fell asleep all of their weight went on to their arms and caused intense pain.

Just granpa (talk) 16:13, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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