Talk:Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Men's individual road race

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Featured articleCycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Men's individual road race is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 20, 2008Good article nomineeListed
September 5, 2008Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

who are the favorites?[edit]

I am watching a live feed with no commentary. It would be helpful to know who the favorites are. Can anyone help? Kingturtle (talk) 05:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alejandro Valverde and, defending Olympic champion, Paolo Bettini are the two biggest contenders to the gold medal, says Norwegian television! lil2mas (talk) 08:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think somebody a little more experienced in cycling than myself should form a preview section...here's a reference for Bettini[1] It would also be beneficial to discuss in this article the fear of pollution playing a part, which there was prior to this event in particular. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 10:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll take a shot at it, if no one else wants to. I think I can say without sounding too cocky that I'm reasonably well versed in cycling. Nosleep (talk) 11:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've written something on the pollution (some of which could be transferred to the women's road race article)...I compared the heat and humidity levels to those on the UCI tour, I was wondering if this comparison is a fair one. This is the only cycling event I've ever watched; am I, as of this morning, merely an enthused novice and am not really qualified to write much more :| Yohan euan o4 (talk) 17:42, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It looks pretty good. I added a paragraph about four prominent cyclists being scratched in the days leading up. Anything more that should go in that section? Nosleep (talk) 21:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A section on the course has been written, something could be done about pre-race favourites...I'm a bit disappointed no other Olympic articles have gone for this though, most of them are just results pages, and it's a bit sterile. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 16:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Im really quite proud of our work on this article (I'll confess to a little sexism and say I simply wasn't as interested in the women's road race). Hopefully there will be something of similar quality for the time trial in a few days. I'll see what I can do about a "favorites" section. Nosleep (talk) 18:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As a Briton, I feel somewhat obligated to take an interest in the women's race (and of course, the track cycling even more so)...I'll add a few references to it, even though I missed it. Valrverde seemed to be the major favourite, I think it would be worth talking about how Spain changed its strategy as he dropped out of contention. Collaboration would be a good thing, without ruining the flow, as a favourites section is probably hardest to do in a balanced and fair way. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 01:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Valverde indeed was indeed the favorite; I'll look at revising the race report to include some mention of Sanchez's "going for it" when the pace of the leading group cracked Valverde. I added a paragraph for pre-race favorites, in a sub-section. Have a look at it, and see if it all works. Nosleep (talk) 02:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

history?[edit]

Is this a new event? If not, who won it in the past? Kingturtle (talk) 05:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, Bettini won in Athens 2004 & Ullrich won in Sydney 2000. Complete list lil2mas (talk) 08:48, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at the last few names in the table[edit]

A lot of redlinks, but it's absolutely possible I misspelled someone's name. I caught one myself, the lanterne rouge as it were, but there could be some simple mistakes in there. Also, 89th place had his nationality officially listed as "Hong King/China." WTF do I do with that? I just put China because I didn't know Hong Kong's three-letter abbreviation. In any event, it's time to forsake my username. Nosleep (talk) 11:18, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

 Done lil2mas (talk) 12:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think we might have a shot at GA here[edit]

I'll try to formalize the race report, flesh it out a little (when this was happening, I didn't have constant live coverage and was going partially just on splits at the end of each circuit), maybe add a few sources. And although they're not required for GA, I think it would be good if we could get some images in the article - maybe some fair use? I've never uploaded an image anywhere, let alone dreamt up a fair use rationale, so hopefully someone else can seek some images.

Good work from everyone so far, but let's keep working towards higher ends. I notice that WP:CYC in particular has precious few GA's, and this one's a really good candidate to get there without a whole hell of a lot of more work. Nosleep (talk) 04:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I was very surprised to see how much textual data this article has incorporated. Never expected it for such an article, especially when the event finished so recently. So I support all improvements possible for it to reach a GA status. I'll see what I can do. Parutakupiu (talk) 14:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try and find an example of where a fair use rationale has been used on a sports image previously, and see if it's applicable here. It probably just requires some minor touch-ups to reach GA status. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 00:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of these would be good, although I'm beginning to have reservations about whether such a picture in this article would qualify for fair use (see article four):
Well, like I said, it was really just a thought, and images aren't required for GA (not at all, so just having one is pretty good as far as that's concerned). Do we know anyone in Beijing who had a camera on the 9th, hehe? :P Nosleep (talk) 03:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to put the word out for someone to take pictures of the scenary on the day of the time trial. Ho hum. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I'm gonna go ahead at list this at WP:GAN tomorrow night, if no one objects. We can keep working on it in the meantime, there's always a bit of a backlog there. It's suggested with GA nominations that you review an article when you nominate one, so I'll do that, and I'd encourage other major editors of this article to do likewise. Nosleep (talk) 03:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the question now is whether this article is Good or merely good...the main issues that ave been raised are with the 'Did not finish' section, and they're being addressed. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did not finish[edit]

If this is going to get GA status, each DNF needs to be explained instead of just the riders who were lapped. Kingturtle (talk) 14:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the vast majority are workers for whom it simply wasn't necessary for them to finish. If this were a stage race like the Tour, Giro, or Vuelta, they'd have dropped well back when the climbing began to save their energy to work for the next day. But there's no "tomorrow" in this event, so obviously that's not necessary. It's especially true of someone like Dave Zabriskie, who was a pace-setter for Levi Leipheimer and Christian Vandevelde on the flat part of the course, but bowed out when the climbing began, because Zabriskie is seen as a medal contender in the time trial and four hours of pointless climbing would hurt his chances. I don't know if that's the reason for everybody who dropped early, and I doubt I can ascribe an individual reason for every one, but that's gonna be the reason for most of them. That and simple fatigue. Nosleep (talk) 22:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that's probably backwards. The vast majority would be the fatigue. The first maybe dozen or so would be the domestiques who weren't expected to finish anyway. Nosleep (talk) 22:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's obviously a great difficulty in ascertaining why every rider withdrew. If it isn't disclosed, or published, can a common explanation be offered as to why a large number of racers pull out in some road races (referenced of course). Yohan euan o4 (talk) 00:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've gotten specific reasons and citation for about 2/3 of the droppers (going to convert the bare references now). This is probably as good I can do on that. Nosleep (talk) 03:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I don't know if too many people are going to be writing about Evgeniy Gerganov or Ahmed Belgasem anyway. Nosleep (talk) 03:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's as good as I can get it. I'll work tomorrow on fleshing out the race report. Nosleep (talk) 04:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This section is still kind of "messy"... I'm looking for more structure, because as of now, I guess this list is loosely sorted by time of withdrawal (ToW). But for a one-day race, the ToW isn't that important, if we don't specify after which kilometre they withdrew. Then we could use the kilometres instead of bullets as a sorting key. Or we could change sorting key to; sorting by nations or the reason to withdrawal (fatigue/resting for the TT/domestique/unknown/++). Any thoughts? lil2mas (talk) 10:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Restructure it, disregarding the ToW. No major sources attach any relevence to the ToW, which confirms what you've just said. It was logical to do it like that at the time. I'd like to sort it either by reason for withdrawal, or good old-fashioned alphabetical order. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 14:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there's a very clear difference between, say, Zabriskie's withdrawal and Contador's, but I suppose that is also seen by their reasons for dropping. Nosleep (talk) 22:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I may have misunderstood you there, and may come off as patronizing here, so...I think the problem is structural; that, if it remains as it does, it is essentially speculative, and an attempt is not being made on ordering it by Time of withdrawal. As I am not the one who put the effort in to that section, or someone who is particularly knowledgable...I'll leave the re-structuring to the discretion of you or lil2mas. I don't oppose any method of doing it. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's just that Zabriskie pulling up before the seven circuits began, after pacing for Leipheimer and Vandevelde on the flat part of the course is a different (although I guess not that different) reason than Contador abandoning 40 km from the finish after pacing for Valverde and Sanchez actually in the mountainous part of the course. If both DNF's are simply called "fatigue," that isn't really communicated. But it's possible the difference is merely subjective. Nosleep (talk) 00:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear - you do know that the order currently is the chronological order of withdrawal (which is sourced), right? Nosleep (talk) 01:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've now added a note to that effect. Nosleep (talk) 02:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And, well, I prefer chronological order, so I'm not gonna change it unless a GA reviewer feels it's an issue (and even then I might need help). Nosleep (talk) 09:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Nom[edit]

I'm going to go list this at WP:GAN now. It will still be several days before anyone gets around to reviewing it, so you guys can work on that section some more, if you like to. I don't know if anything else really needs to be done. Nosleep (talk) 23:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I went through the article more carefully and there are some details I would like to point out:

  • it would be nice to mention somewhere that lapped, disqualified means that if the rider was one loop late, he got out.
I found a source for this, but I'm unsure where to include it. [8] Nosleep (talk) 02:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
 Done I put it in the DNF section. If anyone thinks it would be better off elsewhere, feel free to move it. Nosleep (talk) 03:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • a map of the course would be perfect for the article, if one could be obtained.
  • what about a photo of winners on the podium? Surely there were spectators at the ceremony... (adn some words about the medal ceremony would be nice as well)
Nobody we know, seemingly. There are some photos out there, of course, but not free ones. Nosleep (talk) 02:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • the intro says: Concerns were raised before the Olympics about the threat of pollution in endurance sports, but no major problems materialized in this race. This is explained later but add a source or link nevertheless.
 Done by User:Yohan euan o4
  • I would prefer merging the paragraph about replacements in qualification section since this is repeating in fact.
 Done Nosleep (talk) 03:06, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • maybe the comment why many riders are not expected to finish one-day races is better suited under the list of riders, I leave this open.

Otherwise, nice work guys! --Tone 17:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look at these (or whatever's left) in a few short hours...I must admit I'm kind of on Beijing time right now :P Thanks for the pointers. Nosleep (talk) 17:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it worth noting[edit]

That the race was held on the 37th birthday of the man who won the silver medal, Davide Rebellin? Seems kinda like WP:TRIVIA to me, but it's nonetheless interesting. Nosleep (talk) 22:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Medalists photos[edit]

I thought that this article should profit from having the images of the medalists, so I added the images present on each of the riders' pages to the "The race" section. This should help the GA nomination by fulfilling GAC criterium 6. Parutakupiu (talk) 00:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. Even better would be to have images from the Beijing race itself... The article is in good shape, should pass GA IMO, and can be worked on to get it even to the FA. --Tone 09:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You think it's got a shot at FA? That would be like a dream :D And yeah, like I said in an edit summary, great photos. We probably can't get any free use photos of the race itself, though (considering, as documented in the article, there were no spectators along the course). Nosleep (talk) 09:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There are photos from the finish line, but unfortunately none I've seen are free-licensed or at least CC-tagged. Parutakupiu (talk) 17:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Time formatting[edit]

As per WP:MOSNUM, times should have the format 00:00:00 (unspaced colons linking time fractions), not 00h 00' 00'' as displayed in the classification tables. It's not a big task. Parutakupiu (talk) 00:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, ok. Most if not all of the cycling articles on wikipedia use the style I put in at first (and that's why I started with that style), but if it's a problem for GA, I'll swap 'em out. Nosleep (talk) 01:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I understand. There are some Olympic-related cycling articles that still display that format, but they're bound to be changed. Parutakupiu (talk) 01:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Like you said, it's not a big issue, and I went ahead and swapped the formats out. I'll do likewise with the women's road race and the time trial articles. Nosleep (talk) 01:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
On a related note: do you think it would be good adding an extra column to put the time differences to the winner (+00:00)? Parutakupiu (talk) 01:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. I'm not that skilled with tables, so I don't really know how to do that. Most cycling results will list that, sometimes only that and not the exact times of the other finishers (the Beijing 2008 website in fact lists both). Riders finishing with the same time as the winner are usually denoted with "s.t." in such a column. Nosleep (talk) 01:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Where does it say that in WP:MOSNUM? I've looked for this before and have never found it, and cannot find it now! Cheers, SeveroTC 16:11, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
First sentence of this sub-section. Parutakupiu (talk) 17:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very well, but that is a little ambiguous, as the paragraph is talking about time of day rather than time taken to do something. I'll take it up on the talk page there in order to word it more appropriately. SeveroTC 19:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see why it doesn't apply. Hours are hours, minutes are minutes, anywhere. But I'll wait for a reply to your question from WP:MOSNUM. Parutakupiu (talk) 22:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dash in the title[edit]

Is it correct per the MOS? That has to be the single driest part of the MOS, so I can't say I've read it, and even if I did I'm not sure I'd fully understand it, but I saw someone raising this issue at WT:OLY for each article (since there are dozens like this, general sport at the 2008 Summer Olympics - specific event). Probably something to think about in anticipation of a GA Review. Nosleep (talk) 15:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This was addressed before, goes for all the Olympic events articles. Hyphen is almost certainly wrong, we agreed to use a spaced en dash instead but massive moves will happen after the games have finished to avoid confusion. You can change it now if you wish. --Tone 15:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't really know how. " - " is the only dash I know how to make on my keyboard, and I'm pretty sure that " -- " is as wrong as wrong can be. Nosleep (talk) 16:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I just now tried copy-and-pasting an en dash from Dash, and it looked exactly the same as what we've already got. So I'm just gonna leave it. Nosleep (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion is still ongoing at WP:WikiProject Olympics. I am not convinced that an en dash is necessary. This is not a situation like when date ranges are in a title (e.g. 2007–08 NHL season), where WP:MOSDASH would apply. I think the closest MOS guideline we have is WP:Naming conventions (long lists), and that guideline seems to prefer a colon as the best alternative, but also makes a hyphen acceptable, and does not mention em or en dashes at all. In any case, the discussion should continue on the centralized WikiProject page, I would think. (PS: on Windows, type Alt+0150 for an en dash, or you can click on the first character in the "Insert" section in the special character list below the edit box.) — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very well then, we'd best leave it be. Nosleep (talk) 17:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's road race/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This article is in decent shape, but it needs more work before it becomes a Good Article.

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    In the Qualification section, this sentence ---> "After Russian Vladimir Gusev was fired by his professional team Astana for failing an internal doping check, he was replaced in this event by Denis Menchov, who would then compete both in the road race and the time trial", a comma is needed after Astana.
    Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 03:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
    The article tends to have "red links", if they don't have articles, it would be best to un-link them, per here. Ignore.
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    Is there a source for this ---> "The German team contained Schumacher and many veterans of Grand Tours such as Jens Voigt to work in support, while Luxembourg had the star Schleck brothers Andy and Fränk along with Kim Kirchen, all of whom had worn leader's jerseys during the 2008 Tour de France"? Does Reference 6 cover all this ---> "Four cyclists were scratched from the race just two days before it took place. Damiano Cunego of Italy had not yet recovered from the injuries he sustained in the 2008 Tour de France, so he was replaced by Vincenzo Nibali. The silver medalist from Athens, Portugal's Sergio Paulinho was said to not be in good enough shape to race. After Russian Vladimir Gusev was fired by his professional team Astana for failing an internal doping check, he was replaced in this event by Denis Menchov, who would then compete both in the road race and the time trial. Switzerland's Michael Albasini crashed in training and broke his collarbone the Tuesday before the race; there was not sufficient time to find a replacement for him"?
    Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 03:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
    In the Pre-race favorites section, this sentence ---> "Grand Tours such as Jens Voigt to work in support, while Luxembourg had the star Schleck brothers Andy and Fränk along with Kim Kirchen", "had the star" sounds like POV.
    Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 03:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    If the above statement can be answered, I will pass the article. Good luck with improving this article!

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 01:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For 1B there, all red links are notable people under WP:ATHLETE, and I think it's only a matter of time before all Olympians have articles. I've been making some myself and will continue to do so. Hence the redlinks are good ones! SeveroTC 08:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You could have told me you'd started this review. Tsk tsk.

1A - I don't agree. "for failing an internal doping check" is not a dependent clause. Consider this sentence - "He was fired for gross negligence, so we now have an opening." You could put commas around "for gross negligence," but why? The article's sentence is a little more complex, but not much.

2B - I'll find a source for the leader's jerseys (should take me all of two seconds), and yes, reference 6 covers all the withdrawals.

 Done Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 04:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

4 -  Done Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 04:45, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After reading the article, I have gone off and passed the article. Congratulations. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you to both Severo and Nosleep for getting the stuff I left at the talkpage, because I have gone off and placed the article as GA. Congrats. ;) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 03:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Double results column[edit]

It seems we have conflicting consensuses. WP:CYC decided after the Tour de France to, in the interests of cutting down page scroll, collapse results tables beyond the top ten. Apparently WP:OLY has a consensus to show all competitors in an Olympic event. I think we've reached a reasonable compromise between the two with the double column, even though that's normally not something I'd be in favor of.

Instead of trading comments in edit summaries, let's see if we can work out whatever needs to be worked out here. Perhaps there's nothing at this point, just throwing it out there. Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 19:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I guess it is me who is insisting that we view all the results. The WP:OLY consensus was more about including all competitors in each results article, as some editors were creating new results articles that only had the "top N" performers (where N was aribtrary), and we wanted to discourage that. I don't think we ever talked about hiding the results past a certain cut-off, but then again, this is the first Olympic results article where I've ever seen that technique used. Personally, I don't see a big problem with showing everybody—in fact, I found it confusing the first time I saw this article, and was expecting a big list and didn't see one. The "show" button is not really obvious. Perhaps the WP:CYC regulars are used to looking for it, but from a "newcomer's" perspective, I was puzzled for a few moments. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 20:20, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your point about confusion over showing every name who dropped but not every name who finished was a valid one. I think what we've got now is okay, unless anyone objects, I just thought I'd bring it up. Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 21:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I feel a bit responsible for this issue to being raised. The idea of a collapsible result table was for me first suggested during/after the 2008 Tour de France, where someone was eager to show all 145 finishers of that bicycle race. We agreed on only showing the top 10 and hide the rest so we wouldn't scroll forever. But that race had alot more information included than this one! So this article might not be harmed by showing all of the riders (finishers as well as DNF's)! For my concern, I think it is only fair to highlight the top finishers, so that they don't drown between all the other riders. There aren't alot of other Olympic events involving143 competitors, therefore this issue. Thanks for bringing this up, but for now I think we have reached a suitable solution for everyone. (...if not we can continue the talk here, rather than in the edit summaries, I apologise for any harm I might have caused) lil2mas (talk) 00:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First sentence[edit]

I was reading the lead and got stuck in the first sentence: "The men's road race at the 2008 Summer Olympics (...)". Shouldn't it be explained that this is a cycling event? I thought about editing it this way: "The men's road race was a cycling event contested at the 2008 Summer Olympics (...)", but I wanted some input about this. Plus, I don't know if the boldfacing looks right. Parutakupiu (talk) 21:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to put "cycling" in the lead, I think the most logical place would be between "road" and "race." Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 21:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Me (I) too was a bit torn in whether to include the term cycling, or not, in the header when I inserted the infobox. I felt like there was something missing... I agree with Nosleep where it should be inserted, the only thing I would change was cycling --> bicycle, since this is the proper term: road bicycle racing. I've gone ahead and changed this, feel free to object to/comment my action. Last, but not least I want to congratulate everyone (who has been involved in/edited this article) with passing a GA-nomination! lil2mas (talk) 00:44, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FA nomination[edit]

After passing GA, I have nominated this article or a FA. As mentioned above, the article has developed nicely. However, it was noted at the discussion that we didn't have a debate about nomination. If anyone feels the nomination was premature, please tell me and I can withdraw it. But I don't think we should waith unles anyone finds some extensive material to include/rewrite the article. You are as well welcome to participate in the nomination debate. --Tone 21:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox[edit]

Men's road bicycle race
at the Games of the XXIX Olympiad
VenueUrban Road Cycling Course
245.4 km (152.5 mi)
DateAugust 9
Competitors143 from 55 nations
Winning time6:23:49
38.36 km/h (23.84 mph)
Medalists
1st place, gold medalist(s) Samuel Sánchez  Spain
2nd place, silver medalist(s) Davide Rebellin  Italy
3rd place, bronze medalist(s) Fabian Cancellara  Switzerland

Recently, an infobox for Olympic events has been created, it can be seen for example at Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 100 metres. We plan to use it in most of the events articles. Since there is already a race report box in this article, any suggestions what we can do? Replace it, have both, expand the event box? Each of the boxes has some parameters the other does not. --Tone 08:51, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would certainly prefer the Olympic one, for consistency with all other cycling events, let alone all other events from other sports. {{Infobox Olympic event}} can certainly be enhanced to allow "free-form" fields for event-specific information. For this event, it looks like the winning time and speed are the only things that would need to be worked in, if necessary. With the existing infobox parameters, we can get:
— Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 09:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, this looks better. I hope noone at WP:CYC won't object changing it. --Tone 09:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


2008 Men's Olympic
road bicycle race
Race details
DatesAugust 9
Stages1
Distance245.4 km (152.5 mi)
Winning time6:23:49
Medalists
   Gold  Samuel Sánchez (ESP)
   Silver  Davide Rebellin (ITA)
   Bronze  Fabian Cancellara (SUI)

I have to disappoint you there, like all the other team sports; Football, Handball, Volleyball, Basketball, etc... I think cycling should be allowed to have it's own infobox. But instead of using our existing template, we could make an infobox just for the Olympics, like Template:Infobox Basketball Olympic tourney, to get a unique Olympic "color scheme"? Because the infobox proposed, (...and already implemented!?) lack structure in my eyes... It needs a line/border/colour to divide heading/info/results! Please address your suggestions here.... lil2mas (talk) 11:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, borders are trivial to add (done), but the bigger issues is of WP:MOS#Consistency. I think the WP:WikiProject Olympics discussion is advancing towards the idea that we don't want unique per-sport infoboxes (with independent colour schemes), but prefer a single unified infobox for all sports, and all events. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 15:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Consistency also works the other way though - through cycling race articles. I understand many other sports do not have a results infobox; the idea for the cycling race one was taken from the Formula 1 one and I understand the Olympics one was taken from the cycling one - and as such it would seem appropriate to standardise across Olympics articles. However, the cycling one is getting increased use on many cycling articles (all new articles since it was created at the start of this year and ad hoc introduction into extant articles), and so there could be an argument to standardise across cycling articles. This isn't a straight-forward "let's standardise" because there are two possible standards, and I don't see any argument for saying which, if either, is better. SeveroTC 15:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly the two Olympic road race events (men/women) have a much closer relationship to the other 16 Olympic cycling events than they do to the Tour de France! (not to mention the other 284 events at these Games) Why is there such a resistance? It's just downright goofy to see a term like "Palmarès" used to describe Olympic medalists. The only content difference between the two is the winning time. Is that the source of your objection? Or the fact that the Olympic box doesn't use blue coloured bars for section headers? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 15:58, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Calm down! I don't see your argument that Olympic cycling races have a closer connection to Olympic events than other cycling events - I certainly see "Olympic" and "road bicycle race" as equal terms. I don't actually have a preference, they both do a job. If you're only problem is the term "Palmarès" rather than, say "Medalists" this could be addressed in the cycling box as easily (I was actually thinking of making this change the other day). SeveroTC 16:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the wish for cycling articles to also be standardised, but Andrwsc's point is a good one, using "Palmarès" to describe Olympic medalists looks completely out of place. Would it not be possible for both infoboxes to be kept, one above the other? I'd suggest that the olympic one comes first as this is primarily an olympic event, it wouldn't have happened if not for the olympics. It may look slightly odd but wouldn't harm the article in any way. Basement12 (T.C) 16:16, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Medalists" is now used in instances where medals are given out (a change which, even if not used in Olympic articles, will help in World Championship articles). And FWIW, I prefer the title in the Olympic box, but might it need to be made clear it's cycling? (P.S. I still don't have a preference for which, although I'd prefer only one box) SeveroTC 16:20, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It seems the only difference between the two now is that one lists the winning time of the event and the olympic box gives the number of competitors. i'd think we could I think the title of the article makes it clear that the box is about cycling. If we include the winning time in the olympic box would that then be all the information you'd want in there Severo? Basement12 (T.C) 16:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think that would be a good compromise. SeveroTC 16:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Andrwsc could you modify the template to allow a winning time/result parameter? This might not be a bad thing to use for some of the other sports either. Basement12 (T.C) 16:39, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
 Done I was thinking about that while I was busy over the last 90 minutes or so, as it addresses feedback from the WP:OLY talk page. All along I didn't think there was room for results for all the medalists, but I think it works well to display the winning time/score only. See Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 400 metre individual medley for another example. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:16, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good, particularly useful where a WR has been set I feel, its nice to see that in the main box summary. Basement12 (T.C) 17:26, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It could get a bit awkward when a WR or OR is set in the heats or semifinals but not the final, but yeah, I think it's a good idea to highlight the winning time/distance/height/score/etc. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like I missed the discussion here... But I think it looks better now, it certainly looked very nice on the swimming page! That might be because of the image added, so we should maybe insert a temporary replacement, like I did in the example above. Infoboxes look so much better when they are rectangle-shaped than squared. The best temporary substitution would be the cycling-pictogram, but it is only licensed to the main page. What do you guys think? lil2mas (talk) 17:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)I really hate the "replace this image" placeholder—and I don't think it would have passed GA candidacy with it in the infobox. If we can't get a free photo, perhaps someone with picture editing skills could construct a course route map by cutting out the other venues from Image:Beijing 2008 olympic venue.svg and adding/highlighting the route description from the official website...? (May be a lot to ask!) — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the picture isn't ideal, but I couldn't find another suitable image.. But a route-map would maybe be the best option, as it will be hard to find a free medal award picture! lil2mas (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...and why don't we use Template:flagIOCathlete? Is this to make the medals more visible, or haven't this been thought about? I can accept to put the flag after the athlete, but then I think we could show the full nation name, not only the NOC-abbreviation. Thoughts? lil2mas (talk) 17:58, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think this discussion thread ought to move back to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Infoboxes for events. My reply to that question there was:
  1. I thought that having the flag icons next to the medal icons didn't look as good as having the names adjacent to the medal icons, and then the flag icons next to the country codes.
  2. I thought that the wikilinked country code looked better at the same font size within the infobox, and flagIOCathlete reduces it to 90% (i.e. 90%×90%, as the infobox text is already smaller).
Also, I felt using the wikilinked code instead of the wikilink nation name gave more room for longer athlete names, avoiding the possibility of wrapping. Some of the test cases I tried when it was under development looked worse with the full name. Still, it is still worth exploring more ideas. That's why we use templates—one quick change fixes all the pages that use it! — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it looks a whole lot better... I will continue the discussion on the WikiProject talk page! lil2mas (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We did it, people![edit]

I just saw! Congratulations everybody!! Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 05:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And think, only 3 years and 11 months till we have a logical reason for WP:TFA :P Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 05:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! Great job. I didn't remember this article had been nominated for FA, but it's great to see such a recent event being so quickly promoted to major status here. Congratulations to all contributors! Parutakupiu (talk) 12:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well done, congratulations everyone. So, after all, it was not premature to nominate this article :-) Any plans for future improving of articles? --Tone 12:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, that was quick.. From GA to FA in 16 days, not bad... Congrats all of my fellow contributors, as well as to all olympic/cycling fans, you have something to be proud of! When it comes to other article improvements, there were some talk on WP:CYCLING! Nosleep was talking of improving the time trial article, while User:Thaf was eager to improve the women's road race.. So there is a lot of inspiring people here, so why stop now? =) lil2mas (talk) 14:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Version 0.7[edit]

This article has been nominated for Version 0.7 of the offline Wikipedia release but did not meet the standards for importance. It has been put on Wikipedia:Release_Version_Nominations/Held_nominations for further review. Please see that page for details.

Sorry, but this topic is just too narrow for a general release of limited size like Version 0.7. The problem is that by the time this release comes out, interest in the 2008 Games will have waned. The obvious article for us to have included in this area would have been Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics, but that is only assessed as Stub-Class - if that were an FA we would have taken that article instead. Thanks anyway for the nomination, Walkerma (talk) 06:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Same time[edit]

As per cycling convention, when a cyclist receives the same time as his compatriots for being in the same group at the end, his designation should be "s.t." rather than simply a copy-paste of the time. This is because the cyclist didn't actually get that time, but rather was awarded it. Daniel (talk) 00:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(the official results use the symbol ", which while inferior, is the same as s.t.; they don't use the actual time because that's not the time they crossed the line at). Daniel (talk) 00:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's actually only supposed to be for members of the first group to cross the line ([9], [10]), and even then I'm not sure I'd be crazy about using it in this article. Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 20:05, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I won't change it back, but on the grounds that an FA should be instantly accessible to any reader, I included an explanatory note describing what the notation means. Don't fall asleep zzzzzz 06:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First sentence seems incomplete[edit]

I thought it might be fitting for the first sentence to be extended to, "The men's road race, a part of the cycling events at the 2008 Summer Olympics, took place on August 9 at the Urban Road Cycling Course in Beijing." What does everyone think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.208.60 (talk) 08:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

dead link[edit]

It seems that the link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/08/09/americans.cycling.ap/(ref no.12)is dead link: 404 error. Found in zhwiki by User:sz-iwbot.--Hat600 (talk) 09:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

please tell me here if it is repaired.--Hat600 (talk) 09:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Results after Rebellin DQ[edit]

I'm wondering why can't Cancellara and Kolubnev be moved up in the order. The UCI representative says here that the finishing order is changed automatically after Rebellin DQ.

http://www.velonews.com/article/100073/uci-pulls-rebellin-s-medal

Is there some "official" result list on Beijing Olympics site that hasn't been updated or what is the reason? Manupa (talk) 06:38, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely indicate that they are now second and third, but no reliable source states that Cancellara and Kolobnev have been awarded new medals. The distinction between classification and physical prize may seem a trifling one, but while Rebellin has returned his silver, it doesn't so far seem that Cancellara or Kolobnev have gotten a new silver or bronze medal. We of course must stick to what is verifiable. Alex finds herself awake at night (Talk · What keeps her up) 05:31, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Now 6 months after last returning to topic, I was wondering if they would make Cancellara and Kolobnev receiving physical medals a news item? Perhaps news organizations consider it sufficient news when an athlete is disqualified and not really report when a physical medal is received. I don't remember much news made about physical medals being received. And in sake of theory, suppose that in a track and field relay, where there has been quite a few DQ's in past few years, 2 athletes have received physical medals after DQ, but 2 others haven't, how should they be listed in results? Should we list two of them silver medalists and 2 as bronze medalists? Manupa (talk) 12:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As of January, Kolobnev had not been awarded a medal. If there is newer news that indicates that he has, feel free to produce it. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 22:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It took the IOC more than two years to reach a decision how to redistribute Marion Jones' medals, so according to that schedule it will be 2011 before Cancellara and Kolobnev know what will happen.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 08:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Here's another example: China stripped of Olympic bronze; U.S. gets the medal. This is the resolution, which just came through, of a scandal from the 2000 Olympics. Hope Kolobnev's patient :P Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 23:30, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And concerning this 2000 Gymnastic dispute, there is no word whether all six American athletes have been awarded physical bronze medals. Still they have~been updated as medal winners in Wikipedia Sydney articles. But nonetheless, it must be tough for Kolobnev, and good luck and patience to him. It is not the way any athlete wishes to win his Olympic medal. Manupa (talk) 07:47, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yay!![edit]

Cancellara and Kolobnev get new medals, per a RS! Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 20:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But not showing in the online IOC medal database yet :/ SeveroTC 20:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Aren't there ASO pages that still show Kohl winning the KOM at the 2008 TdF? I don't think we need to wait for their webmaster (obviously, since I've made the edits to this article – revert me if you feel you must). Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 20:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would hardly revert, I just don't understand the IOC, and when I was searching the other day following news of Rebellin's suspension, I couldn't find anything concrete from the IOC. If they had been clever and quick they could have done it immediately, dispatched the medals to Geelong and actually awarded the medals in front of cameras while Cancellara and Kolobnev were both at the worlds. SeveroTC 04:58, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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