Talk:Dan Wheldon

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Biography assessment rating comment[edit]

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 04:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

please remove the inflammatory statements towards me as i first announced his death and was banned for no reason its a shame — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.254.201.108 (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

 Declined No "inflammatory statements" found to remove. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 22:18, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Too much speculation, not enough actual information.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Thank you for the semi protection...it was getting to be a pain to hit undo every 30 seconds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirwulf (talkcontribs) 21:34, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

please keep personal attacks off wikipedia

96.254.201.108 - you need to stop posting false statements or you will be banned — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirwulf (talkcontribs) 21:24, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Danica just burst into tears in the garage upon hearing confirmation of Dan WHeldon's death — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.254.201.108 (talk) 21:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

While the situation is grim, you really should refrain from declaring him dead until there is some official announcement. Otherwise, it's sort of ghoulish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rawalex (talkcontribs) 21:01, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I am at the race he is dead. The top half of his car was ripped off including his upper body. All the drivers saw it happen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.254.201.108 (talk) 20:54, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Nothing has been reported on a death, just speculation 99.139.138.139 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:43, 16 October 2011 (UTC).

Does anyone know whether he's related to the former Rallycross driver Hugh Wheldon? --MartinUK 10:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

What is his winning time???? and what is his number???

According to Autosport (March 1 2007) He's chasing a Nascar drive. (Page 17) Britmax 18:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Dan Wheldon is not related in any direct way to Hugh Wheldon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.73.88.101 (talk) 09:49, April 18, 2008

How can this site report him dead when there has been no announcement. Shamefull

At 4:50 EST Oct 16. Wikipedia is reporting that Dan Wheldon is dead with an obituary date. There is no confirmation from any source that this is indeed, true. Cite for non verifiaability at this time.

It was just announced I am searching for a source I was not the one to change it but I am actively working to find one as they just announced that he died -Supereditor8000 is Cousin's Nephew--- ==

named Joey?! What on earth is this all about?

Dan is not dead, but alive in a stable condition in hospital Sky are reporting - but with no hardcore source. Please stop posting death dates WITHOUT confirmation from the IndyCar Stewards OR officials. Paddiiee (Patrick Carney) (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Reserve Image[edit]

Dan Wheldon consults with his team on Pole Day for the 2007 Indianapolis 500.

The page had too many images of the driver, so I am moving one here until there is more text. Royalbroil 04:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Wha? You sure that is Wheldon?[edit]

I know he is wearing white sunnies, but that photo in the article sure doesn't look like Wheldon to me. Looks more like Scott Dixon to me. Comments? Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 22:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's Dan Wheldon, because look at his hairdo. Ptb1997 (Ptb1997) 10:51, 25 May 2015 (CDT).

Difficult Dan[edit]

Can someone show me where Difficult Dan came from. I can't find it independently, I can only find word for word quotes in a couple of blogs. I'm thinking someone made it up. Snetter2007 (talk) 11:00, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I think it should be removed as unsourced. HADRIANVS (talk) 11:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I would also like it either deleted or properly cited. Someone cited a Wikipedia mirror, which I removed.Minding (talk) 03:25, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Wheldon's career might be ending today. :'( (AutoRacingGenie (talk) 20:42, 16 October 2011 (UTC))

Las Vegas crash[edit]

Can anybody who knows how to, ask for semi-protection? (Edmurbobby (talk) 21:05, 16 October 2011 (UTC))

It's already been requested. Meanwhile, I'm also now watching the page, and I've warned at least one editor regarding edit warring. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 21:18, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, page needs to be semi-protected ASAP due to the serious crash.Froo (talk) 21:24, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 Done Page has been semi-protected by Bongwarrior for the WP:BLP violations. I'm still going to watch the page for a while, and wait to see if we get any reliable information, preferably from IndyCar itself. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 21:35, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Confirmed dead, check Google News. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.101.53 (talk) 21:49, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Google News is an aggregator, not a journalistic source. Where did they get their information from? --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 21:51, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

This is hardly reliable, but watching the coverage on ABC, and everything seems to say to me that he's gone. Most telling: the media was told that the drivers would not be available for interviews until IndyCar makes a statement. And Tony Kanaan is visibly crying on camera... rdfox 76 (talk) 21:58, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

ABC news just confirmed Wheldon has died. [----]

IndyCar just announced Wheldon's death in a press conference at the speedway. rdfox 76 (talk) 22:02, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I just heard it on ESPNews. I'm looking for an online source that can be cited. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 22:03, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
From ESPN.com: [1]. –MuZemike 22:06, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
You beat me to it. IndyCar's site appears to have announced it as well, but I can't get the full site to come up...they're probably getting hammered. At any rate, we have a WP:RS announcing his death. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 22:09, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Dan had started in last place and was racing for $5million. He had moved up 10 positions at the time of the crash. 3 other drivers also went to the hospital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonrunner (talkcontribs) 22:51, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

OK so if you see the ongoing edits that have occurred you will see that there is quite a conflict as to what lap the crash was on most sources including the one I added with the original edit say 13 but people are changing it again most sources including many recently updated articles say that it was lap 13 so I have been maintaining that with in the article people have been changing it with out proper source and leaving the source that says it was lap 13. I will continue to monitor the news outlets and change if necessary. Thanks and RIP Dan Wheldon.Supereditor8000 (talk) 22:57, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Supereditor8000, why don't you cite IndyCar as the source for the Lap 11? That might reduce the back-and-forth somewhat if people can see in the article that Indy has said it was Lap 11. And I second your RIP Dan Wheldon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Don Branson (talkcontribs) 01:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I contacted the BBC by email a couple of hours ago, to point out their error, and their online news item now states the crash happened on Lap 11 (see [2]) Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 18:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Just a quick update (happened to be looking back at this page remembering the whole "lap issue") the official IRL website 404ed the page with the information that has the lap number in which the crash occurred. I will leave it be for right now until I find something else that is in agreement with what the IRL formerly had on their site. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up in case someone noticed things being changed in what was a bit of a back and forth originally.Supereditor8000 (talk) 08:09, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Lap count[edit]

Apparently multiple sources are stating the crash took place on lap 13. This is a case where the otherwise-reliable sources are wrong. The wreck occured during lap 11, the red flag came out during lap 13. Note IndyCar official timing and scoring showed, as of the completion of lap 12, Wheldon and the rest of the wrecked cars at "Diff.: 2 LAPS", i.e. two laps behind the leader, who had completed 12 laps, therefore having completed 10 laps with the wreck occuring on lap 11. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:58, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry did not see your post change if you deem necessary and no hard feelings about the back and forth between what lap it I agree that clearly no one knows for sure what lap it occurred on and maybe it would be better to eliminate that until it becomes clear.Supereditor8000 (talk) 23:02, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

No worries. For the moment I think it'd be best to leave it out of the article, probably, yeah. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:03, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I'm going to be bold and say IndyCar is probably THE reliable source for how many laps had been completed at the time of the wreck, considering they're the sanctioning body for the event. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk)
If the screenshot of their scoring page is acceptable, then I'll agree - the live-scoring page itself is going to be gone before too long, leaving it unsourced otherwise until a "results" page is posted. (Which could be problematic, since, as the race didn't make it to half distance, statistically it never happened.) - The Bushranger One ping only 23:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree I am hands off on that if one of you want to make the change but IndyCar would be the best source. ThanksSupereditor8000 (talk) 23:07, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

The IRL website confirms lap 11. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.115.71.200 (talk) 00:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, IndyCar says lap 11, not 13 as reported by BBC and CBS. Sorry for contributing to the back-and-forth! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Don Branson (talkcontribs) 01:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Other drivers involved in crash?[edit]

Who were the other 14 drivers involved in the crash? Watching the video replays shows there were two separate crashes, one right after the other. Both caused by one car swerving down the track and colliding with the car just behind. Dan Wheldon was involved in the second crash. Bizzybody (talk) 00:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Those involved in the crash: Cunningham, Hildebrand, Bell, Howard, Scheckter, Kimball, Tracy, Viso, Wheldon, Lloyd, Mann, Power, Rice.
Meira and Jakes also suffered damage but were able to drive back to the pits, they are also included as part of the crash. TheChrisD RantsEdits 00:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Were there no other injuries? The coverage I'm seeing so far is only mentioning Wheldon's death. It would be incredible if no one else was seriously injured in that. The live coverage showed one of the cars broken in half and on fire, but the driver of that one is shown on camera getting out (I believe this was identified as Lloyd), apparently none the worse for wear. 68.146.80.110 (talk) 01:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
The only other noted injuries were to Power, who went to the hospital complaining of lower back pain (exacerbated his broken back from '09) but was released; and to Pippa Mann and Hildebrand, both of whom are being kept in overnight for further observation but are both alert and stable. The car you mentioned was actually the #15 of Jay Howard. TheChrisD RantsEdits 01:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Power, Hildebrand, and I think Mann all went airborne as well in that wreck. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Might be hard to confirm that, although it depends on the definition of airborne being used. The two cars that most obviously physically went over the back of other cars and had all four wheels off the ground were Wheldon and Power. One landed into the SAFER barrier somewhat level, the other went into the catch fence... TheChrisD RantsEdits 03:56, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
From the overhead shot, I definitely saw at least three cars flying. One early on in the wreck, then two later as the backmarkers piled in. And Mann's car looked like it had suffered a rough landing afterwards. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I see what you are referring to, yes. From overhead it does look like she went airborne after barrelling into Bell's car, although from the inside camera I'd say the height she attained was no more than what Hildebrand also was thrown up to in that accident. It's hard to say given her car's shadow isn't as noticeable as those of Dan and Will. TheChrisD RantsEdits 04:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

It said that Cunningham clipped James Hinchcliffe, so wouldn't James Hinchcliffe have been involved in the crash? Also, it said that James Jakes was in the pits after crash. Marty Reid said that his car didn't have damage, even though he was out of the cockpit. Ptb1997 Talk 10:46, May 25, 2015 (CDT)

Find a Grave-Please Remove[edit]

Why is there a link to Find a Grave. Mr Wheldon has not even been buried yet. I find what some have tried to put on this page disgusting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.107.152 (talk) 03:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I had the same concern, but it's a biography/memorial page, not a ghoulish thing. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:47, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 17 October 2011[edit]

please change The reasoning behind the move was that the level of investment needed to fund his racing career in the UK wasn't able to be provided by his family, to The reasoning behind the move was that the level of investment needed to fund his racing career in the UK was beyond his family's resources.

79.44.13.114 (talk) 05:03, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for improving Wikipedia. mabdul 12:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

editprotected[edit]

The death section should link to the race article 2011 IZOD IndyCar World Championship (this is the name of the race, not the season). And the intro section should as well. Probably a piped link for "race".70.24.251.158 (talk) 07:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

  •  Done. Thanks for the tip. Marcus Qwertyus 07:38, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a news site[edit]

All the above nonsense would be avoided if some editors didn't treat Wikipedia as if it were a news site which has to be updated instantly to include recent events. There should be a Wikipedia policy that only events more than say a year old can be included. That would allow the dust to settled and more accurate information to become available. An encyclopaedia shouldn't encourage short termism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.64.107 (talk) 07:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Agree with this. People go to news sites for up to the minute news, they come to Wikipedia for an accurate account of events after the fact.86.149.101.102 (talk) 10:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree with this completely. First of all, the "wait a year"-idea is random and does not make sense. The only thing we need here is the rule to only include information once there are sources to back them up (which already is a rule that just is not enforced that well). Waiting a year is way too long. If something happened, then something happened and it could be included. We don't need to destroy one of the advantages of the medium by making the Wikipedia slower than books. And while I completely agree that Wikipedia is not a news site, the Wikipedia itself undermines that idea by including a "In the news" block at the top of the home page. While this is not necessarily a problem, it gives people the impression that news are part of the Wikipedia, which is annoying since people already don't understand what an encyclopedia is. But that said, recent events ARE part of an encyclopedia. They just never were, because it took so long for the print products to come out. --78.54.19.112 (talk) 11:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS is clear on the matter. While a one-year arbitrary limit may not be logical in light of the current "instant-news cycle" environment and culture, the policy exists for a reason: to allow for the development and publication of actual information by reliable, verifiable, neutral sources. Waiting for that development and publication reduces edit warring, speculative edits, and out-and-out falsehoods in the article. Creating a Wikipedia article shouldn't be considered a race at the best of times; when viewing an article that may be subject to heavy editing due to a current or very recent event, waiting becomes an even better idea. Look at the commentary from the day of the crash, when there was a great deal of back-and-forth as to whether Wheldon had survived or not. The situation devolved to the point where the article had to be semi-protected to stem the flood of speculation and guesswork, even though many of those speculating and guessing turned out to have speculated and guessed correctly. Wikipedia articles, however, can NOT be based on speculation or guessing; they MUST reference reliable and verifiable sources. If it takes a year (which, as I pointed out before, is very rare now), so be it...more often, it takes between a few hours and a couple of days. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 02:21, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Image of crash[edit]

The image of the crash is tagged with a (c) watermark; would that make it ineligible for inclusion even though it was botted over with CC licensing? I'm new to image editing, so I don't want to start an FfD case if it is allowed. 67.160.116.66 (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think it would. 69.228.91.99 (talk) 16:25, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Fair use would apply, I believe, under both the "newsworthiness" (although Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS) and "research value". It would take a member of OTRS to definitively answer this question, though. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 01:26, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Licensing issues aside, I have to question whether we should even have a picture of the crash here. In an article about the race or the crash, absolutely it's appropriate. Here in the biographical article, it strikes me as slightly morbid. --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:45, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Good point, and applicable under WP:NOTNEWS. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 02:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I think images and footage of the incident SHOULD NOT be used ANYWHERE by ANY MEDIA OUTLET. I was appalled enough that ESPN chose to replay the video of the crash after the announcement of Dan's death, but usage of it beyond that is outrightly disrespectful to Dan, his family, crew, fellow competitors, friends, fans, and the motorsporting community as a whole. We deserve better than to have this tragedy exploited for commercial purposes and the entertainment of the morbid. Think of how any of you would feel if it had been your loved one. We're civilized human beings; we're supposed to be beyond such barbaric practices. If the section really needs an image, you should use one of the five-lap tribute or the fan memorial outside the track instead. 68.44.244.172 (talk) 05:20, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Note that Weldon's car was equipped with an onboard camera. No one is showing that footage. No one is showing pictures of the moment he hit the wall. No one is showing images of the safety crew swarming his car. The only shots being shown of the entire accident are wide angles and an onboard from one of the other cars. With so many cars crashing it's very difficult to ascertain which one is his in any of these shots. As for using the image, we can't use anything that isn't free as any image is replaceable by an image someone took from the stands. Fair use here is invalid as the professional images are theoretically replaceable. N419BH 05:43, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The argument that showing images of the accident is alright because it's "difficult to ascertain" which car is his is wrong for multiple reasons:

  1. It's very easy to tell which car is his, especially for those of us in the motorsporting community. Only two cars got airborne in the accident, Power's and Dan's, and Dan was further back in the field, so we know exactly which car is his, even from the aerial wideshots. I also know for a fact that the Wikimedia Commons version of the offending image had a box highlighting Dan's car. And your claim that the moment of impact with the wall is not in the footage is completely wrong and misinformed.
  2. Even if it was difficult to tell, with the moment of the fatal injury shown, any usage of the footage is clearly disrespectful. Anyone who doesn't understand this is small, petty, inhuman, and heartless.
  3. Put yourself in the position of Dan's family, his wife, his parents, his brothers. Every time they have to watch footage of the accident plastered all over the news, they'll know it's the moment and have to relive the pain of it. Think about what his sons will feel as they grow up. They deserve better.
  4. Think back to September 11, how outraged everyone was that the news continuously and repeated showed footage of the planes hitting the towers and the towers falling, and how quickly they stopped showing that footage. This is the same type of situation.

No human deserves the indignity of having their death exploited for entertainment purposes, which, quite frankly, is what the news is about these days. Life is precious and should be respected above all else. I applaud the fact that the image has been removed from the article since my initial appeal. --68.44.244.172 (talk) 00:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The image does NOT show a man dying. It shows a number of cars crashing. The image explains the accident and furthers the reader's understanding of such in a manner which text simply cannot do. We aren't talking about a picture of the man in a body bag. We're talking about a picture which shows a number of vehicles crashing. Dan's car is airborne in the image but isn't anywhere near the wall. He's alive and uninjured in the photo. I would strongly object to including a photograph of Dan's injuries but such don't exist in public archives. The video and photographs of the accident are actually valuable footage which can be used to improve not just IndyCar safety but the safety of many vehicles. This isn't morbid entertainment value. This is academic presentation of facts and images to further the reader's understanding of the subject. N419BH 01:02, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm willing to be convinced, but I don't think there's any sort of precedent for including these sorts of images in biographical articles. Plenty of notable people died in the September 11th attacks, but you won't find images of planes crashing or about to crash in their articles. Just because there's no blood or dead bodies visible doesn't make it more palatable in my opinion - it's over the top, as well as undignified. --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Spelling[edit]

This article should be spelt in British English. So it is "lap of honour" not "honor". 86.136.210.142 (talk) 12:16, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorted it. Thanks. JonCTalk 15:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to have to object to that, although not especially strenuously...Wheldon was notable for driving in an American sport (witness two Indianapolis 500 wins). So making such an arbitrary change, IMO, fouls WP:ENGVAR. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 18:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
... as an Englishman/Briton. I think the bit in ENGVAR about having a tie to one country or the other applies here. British person, British English. It's what I generally stick to, anyway, and no-one's objected so far. :) JonCTalk 18:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Definitely agree. The person himself is a much stronger tie than the location he worked. Melicans (talk, contributions) 18:34, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Death location[edit]

The tragedy occurred at Las Vegas Motor Speedway which is in fact in unincorporated Clark County, Nevada, not in the city of Las Vegas, Nevada as currently indicated in the article. I'm going to change it for accuracy. --Oakshade (talk) 16:01, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Possibly correcting myself here. By all media accounts, he was airlifted to University Medical Center of Southern Nevada which is in fact in the city of Las Vegas. He was declared dead there. However, officials aren't ruling out the possibility that "he died on impact" [3] which would mean he died at the speedway. An autopsy report says he died of "blunt force head trauma." [4] It's just not clear at the moment. --Oakshade (talk) 03:11, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Other Contributions[edit]

Please add information about their participation in Xbox Game "IndyCar Series 2002 and 2005" source is http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/indycarseries2005/review.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by XemDenots (talkcontribs) 16:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Picture[edit]

Can we get a better picture? The current one makes him look like a sleazeball. AmericanLeMans (talk) 17:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm wondering why the original picture was replaced...were there WP:NFCC issues? That one, at least, showed him looking like an Indy driver. The current one makes him look like, I don't know, Jim Carrey somewhere between Cable Guy and Bruce Almighty. Kind of creepy. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 18:12, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I agree, are they even his real teeth? It's like a halloween costume. Surely someone has something better? Twrist (talk) 19:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
I also agree I don't feel this picture is relevant any more and the previous one was adequate. Kieran96336 (talk) 20:21, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 17 October 2011[edit]


68.224.149.138 (talk) 18:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Death of Dan Wheldon

My name is Heather and I personally was at the race when this tragity occured. It happened during the 12th lap and involved 13 drivers. Your statments on Wiki are not accurate.

Not done - Hello and welcome. Unfortunately, the IndyCar's official website confirms that the crash occurred in the 11th lap and 15 cars were involved. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:59, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Timing and scoring during the broadcast (and on news reels all over the place when showing the reply) also show that the accident occurred on lap 11. Melicans (talk, contributions) 19:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Also officially stated on the IndyCar website so this should be the used information. IndyCar news page Kieran96336 (talk) 20:26, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

This is what WP is all about...[edit]

...to add a link to the "Find a grave" site for the freshly deceased, long before there is one to find. "Open" can be very ugly. --80.171.56.5 (talk) 04:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

"Open" also means you are free to remove the link if it bothers you. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:58, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

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