Talk:David Allan Coe
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|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Racist, Sexist, Homophobic?
- 2 This is not a David Allan Coe Fan Page, this is an encyclopedia entry
- 3 Glen Campbell Controversy
- 4 How about mentioning DAC's lies in the controversy section?
- 5 Glen Campbell and Rhinestone Cowboy
- 6 Song Writing Credits
- 7 The Rodeo Song is not DAC
- 8 David Allan Coe; Health
- 9 Fraternity
- 10 Invalid links
- 11 David Allan Coe's Song House We've Been Callin' Home on DACoe's Rides Again Album
- 12 Controversy
- 13 Navbox
- 14 Mormon
- 15 Relationship with Eli Radish and Danny Sheridan
- 16 What is allmusic doing in an encyclopedia?
Racist, Sexist, Homophobic?
I deleted "Leroy the big lipped nigger" from his discography. That's one as wrong as attributing The Gourd's cover of Gin and Juice to Phish.
Moved from the article: after the sentence Exposure to any one of these songs by itsself might convince the listener he is completely prejudiced but a more extensive study would show he most likely intended on offending everyone equally. the following was added anonymously
- What the hell does this last sentence mean? Sure he offends everyone equally if you mean everyone EXCEPT other racist, sexist and homophobic white males. This last subsection surely would not be offended.
i saw david allan coe in concert several years ago. let's just say that he left certain songs out...
Gringo300 02:47, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
This is not a David Allan Coe Fan Page, this is an encyclopedia entry
The controversy surrounding "Nigger Fucker" is unflattering to Coe, but Wikipedia was not created for the purpose of casting Coe into a favourable light with as little as possible reference to the controversy he himself has created.
Compare, for example, the article on Mircea Eliade, where both Eliade's acclaimed accomplishments -- and clear examples of the controversy surrounding his use of racial epithets -- co-exist side-by side. If such can be done for Professor Eliade, why not for singer Coe?
Coe (like Eliade) has never apologized for what he wrote; he has merely tried (like Eliade) to distance himself from it. It does Coe no service to remove or reduce references to Coe's obviously adult, mature, and considered decision to write, record, and release a song called Nigger Fucker. Coe claims the song is satire, and wishes to leave it at that, but the fact is that to many people it does NOT appear to be a satire. They believe it is actually racist and their reaction to that bellief is genuine:
- Anti-racists who dislike the song because they consider it racist refuse to book Coe or buy his music.
- Racists who like the song because they think it is racist have proudly stated (falsely) that Coe "secretly" is also the pseudonymous racist singer Johnny Rebel.
This controversy has been ongoing since the song Nigger Fucker came out in 1982 and it is not going to go away. Attempts to eliminate all mention of the word racist from these pages -- as has been done several times today at the Nigger Fucker page -- are misguided, as is this latest attempt to remove the subhead "controversy" from this page and relegate the controversy to the subhead titled "style".
Is it Coe's STYLE to be racist? i think not. That is why the material on his racist song was taken out of the STYLE section and placed in the section on CONTROVERSY.
I wish to bring back some of the material that was on this page before Alsayid chopped it out. I am also asking for mediation here, because Alsayid is not working with me or with anyone else; rather he/she is simply taking out anything that touches on the song Nigger Fucker or on the controversy.
Personally, speaking as a one time David Allan Coe enthusiast, i would much, much rather remembr him for the wit and bravura musicianship of "You Never Even Called Me By My Name" than for the grotesque lyrics about vomiting, big dicks, and pussy in Nigger Fucker, but the two songs have equal claim to fame now, and any encyclopedia entry about Coe that does not give them both their due is presenting a santized and dishonest view of the man's career, in my opinion.
Respectfully, Catherineyronwode 04:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- Sigh. You still can't stop with the lengthy attacks and misrepresentation, can you? I have not been chopping "huge swaths" out of the Nigger Fucker entry all day only to come here to remove an entire section. I edited this article before you started your ceaseless assault on me, and I did so to improve the article. Further, when I made my initial edit I didn't remove any seperate section at all. I removed some text, which you, in your anger, largely re-inserted and expanded upon in a new section you created specifically for it. Neither have I been unwilling to "work" with you or "anyone else". To the contrary, it is you who IMMEDIATELY began hurling offensive slurs with your first edit to the song article, and warning that you would ask for mediation with your first comment on the talk page! So... enough with the misrepresentations. Enough flaming.
- Getting the facts straight: "Attempts" to remove "all mention of the word racist" have NOT been made by me. The word was clearly kept in the Coe entry, and the entry on the song in question has remained linked to the "racism" category.
- A new section under the header "controversy", aside from being created to re-insert an editor's POV on the matter, is not needed. As most of the style section indicates, controversy itself is a good part of Coe's style!
- The truth of the matter is, Wikipedia articles have nothing to do with "casting" subjects in either a favorable OR a negative light. They should be constructed as NPOV from editors, they should remain focused, and we should all remain mindful of proportion and relavence. Because you seem intent, ironically enough, on casting Coe in a negative light, you have thrown several of these neutral considerations out the window, not only slandering me, but harming the integrity of the article(s). I feel the need to remind you that Wikipedia isn't about you or me, and it's not about your own personal opinions or grudges. --Alsayid 05:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you, Hyacinth. I admit that i iinadvertently cast the first stone when i reacted to the addition of Shel Silverstein's name as co-writer of Coe's racist song Nigger Fucker and the removal of half the Nigger Fucker article with an edit-tag that said i was reverting "vandalism". I sincerely thought it to be such.
- I have apologized for not assuming good faith. My apology has not been accepted.
- All that having been said, i still object to the mass deletion of content from the Nigger Fucker page, and to the fact that this mass-deletion of content relating to "Controversy" has now spread to the David Allan Coe page as well. Catherineyronwode 16:35, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- Calling another editor an "anti-Semite" in one's edit remarks is far from inadvertent. Yes, Catherine cast the first stone. And I asked her then to please refrain from it. She cast more stones. She finally apologized on the other talk page, and I GLADLY accepted it in clear terms! This can be seen by anyone wishing to do so, so I don't understand why she continues to grossly misrepresent me and the sequence of events to other editors.
- Imagine my surprise, and disappointment, when I came here only hours later to find a fresh attack with many of the same accusations and distortions as before launched against me personally. I feel I have been dragged into defending myself from a witch-hunt Catherine has been trying very hard to get going. I am more than ready, as stated on the other talk page, to move away from arguing over me personally whenever she is. It is as uncomfortable for me as I am sure it is for others having to read it. Let's please be adults, and calmly discuss the article topics rather than each other. --Alsayid 18:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned "Nigger Hatin' Me" or "Damn, I Wish I Was a Nigger", some of Coe's more odious songs. While he is a well-known, and pretty good, mainstream Country songwriter, he has also penned and recorded some of country's best-known racist anthems which can be found on juke boxes around the country, unfortunately. Njsamizdat (talk) 00:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
The reason those songs are not mentioned is because Coe did NOT write or perform them. They are Johnny Rebel songs commonly and mistakenly attributed to Coe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 20:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Glen Campbell Controversy
(Coe also fumed about Glen Campbell's success with the song "Rhinestone Cowboy".)
Um...maybe some citation for this, otherwise I think it should be deleted...x_C.H. 00:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
How about mentioning DAC's lies in the controversy section?
I love David Allan Coe's music. But boy does he have the tendency to tell some REAL whoppers! At 3 concerts I was at he said he wrote the song "Rollin' in My Sweet Baby's Arms". That song was first recorded in the 30s, I think. He also claimed in one of his books to have had a black guitarist named "Jim" in his band in the 60s, and by golly, that turned out to be Jimi Hendrix. He also mentions that he was friends with Charles Manson in reform school. There are more but I can't think of them right now.
Musicians performing at concerts are there to entertain the crowd, therefore anything they say during those those times shouldn't be taken seriously. It would be lying if he made those claims during an interview to the media. MoonLoaf (talk) 01:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- This should be re-written: "Napster added to the confusion regarding Coe's racist songs by mislabeling offensive works by other artists, especially Johnny Rebel, whose songs are often mistakenly attributed to Coe." That is incorrect. Napster didn't label anything. Individual users of the Napster service might have mis-labeled songs that wound up in Napster's database, but Napster had nothing to do with that. K8 fan (talk) 06:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Glen Campbell and Rhinestone Cowboy
Just out of curiosity, why did David Allan Coe "fume" over Glen Campbell's success with the song "Rhinestone Cowboy"???? I missed it before it was deleted, and I'm curious. Anyone? Duprees62 18:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
The reason it got deleted is because nobody found any evidence that he really did "fume" over the success of the song. However we just assume he did because David Allan Coe released his third album "Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy" in 1973 and went by that persona all over nashville for years before the album and before Glen Campbell recorded his cut of the Larry Weiss song "Rhinestone Cowboy" in 1975 and got famous because of it. Help any?
x_C.H. 00:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps fueling this is DAC's lyric in "Ride em Cowboy": "I've always been the rhinestone cowboy I don't care what glen campbell has to say"
David mentions this in one of his live DVDs - I think it's the live at Billy Bob's DVD (not sure) where he talks about being upset that the hall of fame won't admit him. He also claims he invented the term "rhinestone cowboy" and is more upset with people attributing that label to Campbell than actually at Campbell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 01:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Before David was famous, he would hang around the back doors of Nashville venues after concerts while wearing a jacket covered in Rhinestones. People would automatically assume he was an entertainer, and he used that to work his way into country music. I read that in a short magazine article somewhere. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:09, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Song Writing Credits
This is a little known list of recordings where David Allan Coe is credited with or claims some writing involvement or influence.
1)Take this Job and Shove It
2)Would You Lay With Me in a Field of Stone
3)Willie,Waylon and me
4) Long Haired Redneck
5)Jack Daniel's If You Please
6)If That Aint Country
7)Need a Little Time Off For Bad Behaivior
8)Don't Cry Darlin'
9)If I Could Climb The Walls of This Bottle
10. Single Father
11. Letter to my Daughters
12. Son of the South/Detroit
13. New Orleans
14. Greener than the grass we laid on
15. Family Reunion
PLEASE HELP COMPILE!'
The Rodeo Song is not DAC
I just wanted to point out that "The Rodeo Song" is neither written by, or made famous by DAC. It was written by Gaye Delorme and performed by the Canadian group Showdown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:53, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
David Allan Coe; Health
Recently attended a concert; has he had a stroke? At the end he was helped off the stage and used a four prong cane. Larry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I've added a section about a growing underground fraternity at Spring Hill College in Mobile, of which I am a graduate. The organization and faculty sponsor have gathered quite a following and travels to every Coe concert within 500 miles (sometimes further). Like most fraternities it is a glorified drinking club, but has many facets and mechanics of normal fraternities. Jones629 (talk) 19:03, 28 February 2011 (UTC)Jones629 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jones629 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
- The student-written article says 35 members of the "glorified drinking club" showed up at a pledge drive attended by the subject of the column, a college professor. This is an unreliable source for a non-notable group at a non-event, and does not belong in an encyclopedic biography, even if they attend every David Allan Coe performance in Alabama. I'm sure plenty of frats go to concerts; they don't get their own Wikipedia section. Blackguard 00:12, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- So an encyclopedic biography shouldn't mention a "frat" that was founded specifically to support David Allan Coe? I'm not objecting Blackguard because I see your (rudely put) point. Perhaps when the group gains a good deal more notoriety and a more substantial membership base, it can be included. Jones629 (talk) 03:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, an encyclopedic biography shouldn't mention a frat such as you described merely because one exists. It must have significance to the article; the article should be incomplete without such a mention. The policy regarding this is laid out in the policy guidelines WP:HTRIV and WP:UNDUE, where it is specified, among other things, that items in an article must meet criteria of significance or meaning and not be merely vaguely interesting peripheral matters. WP is, of course, crowded with examples of the disregard of these guidelines, but that is not of itself permission to overlook them. I hope this helps. Monkeyzpop (talk) 06:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Nothing Sacred and Underground Album link to article. Mitch3000 04:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
David Allan Coe's Song House We've Been Callin' Home on DACoe's Rides Again Album
I am Jessi on David's Song, "House We've Been Callin' Home." I've read the articles on him and he is not a psycopath, believe me. He's very nice and I've known him since I was 18. We met at the Texas Opry House in Houston, TX in 1970's! From then I was always on his guest list at Guilley's and The Nesadel in Pasadena or wherever he played. I helped him at a hotel once, but never slept with him, and he told me at a Nesadel concert that "Your going with me on the bus when we leave" and to "go sell his T-shirts with MeeMee" and I did. During the concert I asked MeeMee for a break and went up by the stage to see him and a friend of his (a biker) hit on me and I told him no and he got real mad and told me to get back their with the rest of the c's! I was so upset I sat at a table and had a drink for a bit and when the show was over Dave got on the bus and I didn't get on. I didn't see him for about 6 months and left for Los Angeles. David called my moms home in Highlands, TX at the time and she told him I was gone. I saw him last with my husband of 17 yrs at him and Willie Nelson's last concert in 2007 where I lived at the time, personal, and we went backstage and took pictures..they are posted on my FaceBook page and my husband took them. He asked Kim to marry him the following year and I'm very happy for them. There was a lot of controversy I read online about his song, "House We've Been Callin' Home" that my name is in that he had three wives..this is not true. He's only had one wife at a time! He's a good man and I'll always love him as a friend. So that is the story of me and Davied Allan Coe. All u people that put him down are wrong; if you don't have something nice to say..don't say it! Respectfully, Jessi Jennings aka Geri Fedorovich — Preceding unsigned comment added by JessiJennings (talk • contribs) 14:21, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
The mistake in having a section in articles for "controversies" is that musicians are not known for controversial events or lyrics, they are known for their music, and creating an entire section to focus solely on minor aspects of their life violates WP:NPOV. I deleted the exaggerations and untruths and merged the stuff about his underground albums into his biography, which is how these aspects of Coe's life and career should be treated. WTF (talk) 14:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
- Hate Music! Buy the KKK CDs here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 14:42, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I added a navbox, hope it helps with this article. I'm sure many additions could be made to the related articles but I'm also not the DAC expert, any additions there would be appreciated. Should all the compilations remain in the navbox or would it be better to not include them? UselessToRemain (talk) 23:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Relationship with Eli Radish and Danny Sheridan
In 1970-1971 I lived in Cleveland, and Eli Radish, featuring bass player/bandleader Danny Sheridan (who would go on to have a moderately illustrious career) was one of my favorite bands. They played a kind of proto-country rock influenced by Gram Parsons and the Youngbloods. It's a long time ago, but I pretty clearly remember DAC playing in Eli Radish, either as a band member or as a guest. If this is correct it should be in the article. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 00:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Larry Siegel
What is allmusic doing in an encyclopedia?
Wikipedia's credibility is damaged by citing purely, purely editorial content from a publication such as allmusic. As I type this in May 2016 there are numerous references to allmusic.
Cite Rolling Stone. Cite any _printed_ sold-on-a-newstand newspaper. Cite Saturday Review or any _printed_ magazine. But an online popularity opinion website like allmusic? It should have no place in wikipedia.