Talk:Denmark

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Former good article Denmark was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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The Danish Realm[edit]

The emphasis on The kingdom of Denmark should be diminished, to get this article in line with contemporary reality.

The official term for the Faroe islands, Greenland and Denmark proper, is Det danske rige or Rigsfællesskabet, usually translated as The Danish Realm. The Danish Crown does not own anything in the Faroese Islands or Greenland. They hardly own (or govern) anything in Denmark proper. The term The Kingdom of Denmark is outdated and should be replaced with the term The Danish Realm. Officially The Danish Realm is part of and geographically similar to The Kingdom of Denmark, but The Danish Realm is an actual governing institution, whereas the Danish Crown has very limited political power.

A source: Rigsfællesskabet

Feel free to discuss here, before I make the necessary changes.

RhinoMind (talk) 21:52, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


The page Kingdom of Denmark redirects to Denmark page (current one) and not to the Danish Realm page. I think that #REDIRECT should be moved to Danish Realm from Denmark: do you agree? Filippo83 (talk) 13:38, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi. In terms of geography I agree that the Kingdom of Denmark should redirect to The Danish Realm page. If we look closer at the two institutions however, I am not so sure. I am not aware that there is any affiliation bewtween the institutions of the Danish royalty and The Danish Realm. Perhaps more informed people has something to share in this regard. The redirect issue you raise does not have a high priority to me (no offence). RhinoMind (talk) 15:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
You seem to contradict this in our conversation elsewhere. I believe that wp:commonname would suggest that the sovereign state, as an entity that encompasses three constituent countries, should be dealt with at Denmark, and that the information specific to the European constituent should be at Denmark (constituent country). We don't have articles on Federal Republic of Germany or Kingdom of Sweden (they are both redirects), because WP:Commonname trumps the full legal name: by the same token, Danish Realm is not a helpful name for an article about the sovereign state, and the current article of that title is very unclear as to whether it refers to the state or the legal arrangements by which that state is constituted. Kevin McE (talk) 09:48, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
@Kevin McE: I think it is most comprehensible if I squeeze in up here. This is an older thread and post you are responding to and as I have become wiser since then, I now (as on the page talk you refers to) propose to have three seperate articles and no redirects. That means articles on "The Kingdom of Denmark", "Denmark" (which is Denmark proper) and "The Danish Realm" (which is synonymous with "The Unity of The Realm"). I think the extended discussion below supports this approach greatly. There is a need for explaining the three concepts and their different histories thoroughly. And we require solid references for all of this, something the discussion below is lacking. RhinoMind (talk) 14:08, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
If you want to suggest a split then make a form proposal. Demolishing half of the lead is not constructive. Nobody is saying that "Denmark" includes territory in North America. Rather, the Kingdom of Denmark is a sovereign state (technically a unitary state with several autonomous areas) which includes Denmark. The first sentence of your revision is inaccurate. --Hazhk (talk) 19:53, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
But this is the article for Kingdom of Denmark. The lead paragraph must therefore reflect that. Kevin McE (talk) 07:43, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
The primary topic of "Denmark" is the country, not the realm. We could have a section on definitions in which the difference between the realm and the kingdom and the state. You are both making this more complicated than it should be topics are not clear cut and this is a case where we just need the article to explain in relatively simple terms that there are a couple of specialized technical meanings of the term that compete with the ordinary term that refers to the country of Denmark proper.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 07:49, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
If you want to make an article on Denmark proper, or European Denmark, feel free. I cannot accept that there is a sovereign state, recognised by every country in the world and an UN member, that does not have an article on Wikipedia: that is what you are trying to enforce here. This is the destination linked from articles on the Danish Constitution, the UN lists, the article Queen of Denmark and countless other links that treat of a sovereign state: every reader of Wikipedia is invited to read this if they want to read about the Kingdom of Denmark. It is a huge failure therefore if it does not present an adequate description of the Kingdom of Denmark. Kevin McE (talk) 16:55, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
"Denmark" virtually always refers to the European country. The primary topic of this article should be the territory in Europe, per WP:COMMONNAME. This is why your revised lead was misguided and incorrect. Greenland and the Faroe Islands are not parts of Denmark. If you want to split up this article then the best solution is the re-creation of a Kingdom of Denmark article. This would be comparable to the Netherlands/Kingdom of the Netherlands situation. I think should make a formal proposal further down this page. I won't be supporting any separation; the entire issue seems pedantic to me . -- Hazhk (talk) 11:53, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Also to me. Denmark is Denmark - sometimes that means "realm" more often it means "country/nation". Both needs to be covered in the same article.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 12:19, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Asserting the difference between a European territory with a temperate climate, smaller than the Dominican Republic, and a transcontinental sovereign state bigger than Mexico and the UK added incorporating vast areas of arctic wilderness, is far from pedantic. It is impossible to meaningfully discuss the geography, climate, fauna, constitution, monarchy or innumerable other aspects of Denmark, it is meaningless to do so without clarifying which meaning of Denmark is the scope of the article. Mnaus's comment casts doubt on your confidence about the primary meaning: establishing COMMONNAM E is likely to be contentious.Kevin McE (talk) 18:57, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
No, it is in fact fairly simple: the scope is the realm/state but the focus is the country/nation. Any semi-competent wikieditor should be able to write the article without having to split the two or causing confusion.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:14, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
I don't see any consensus for changing the focus of this article from the European country. Denmark means Denmark, not a transcontinental state. Can you show otherwise? To reiterate, I think there's a possible case for renaming the Danish Realm article to Kingdom of Denmark, fleshing it out, and focusing on the Kingdom of Denmark as a sovereign state. However I don't fully support that move. Having reviewed the discussion in 2012 about merging the two articles, I am still convinced that the current situation is best. If you're trying to propose such a split of the article then you need to create a new section and get a wider response that three or four people. Until then I don't think there's anything further to discuss; there's no consensus for any change because you are the only one supporting it.--Hazhk (talk) 19:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Manaus' comment, "the scope is the realm/state" shows that Denmark does not clearly mean, exclusively and clearly, what you evidently think it means; "Denmark means Denmark", which is the name of a transcontinental state. If "the scope is the realm/state", then the lede must address that scope, and the current lede is inappropriate, and this discussion does not reflect consensus for your reverting of my edit. Kevin McE (talk) 07:08, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Clearly noone has been in agreement with your edit. So maybe you should switch strategy to try to build consensus instead of trying to deductively demonstrate that you are right and everyone else is wrong.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 07:18, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
@Kevin McE: I think your whole idea (which it is) that the country of Denmark comprise Denmark proper, the Faroe Islands and Greenland altogether, needs to be confronted in a seperate post here, as it is a singular issue that needs to be cleared up before any other consensus or progress can be made in other areas. What do you base your idea on? I can inform you that both the Faroese people and the Greenlanders would be very surprised to hear that they now live in Denmark and not ... The Faroe Islands and Greenland, respectively. But more importantly, do you automatically suggest that the Faroe Islands and Greenland is described in full detail in this article about "Denmark" too? i.e. that these articles are merged in to this one? Because that would be the consequence of your idea. RhinoMind (talk) 14:26, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
I don't know whether you are not intelligent enough to understand what I have written, or deliberately misinterpreting it. I have consistently distinguished between the state and the constituent country. According to our article, Faroese and Greenlanders will look at their passports and see that they are Danish, albeit with qualification: they live in what is commonly called Denmark, but but not within the constituent country that (confusingly) has the same name. I cannot for the life of me imagine why you think it is a bad idea for an encyclopaedia to have an article on a sovereign nation. The word 'country' is very poorly defined: in most countries of the world, there is not meaningful between country, nation and sovereign state: in some cases, including Denmark, Netherlands, France and the UK, that is not the case. I have been consistent in avoiding the word 'country' except in the phrase 'constituent country'; when referring to the sovereign state, I have not once used the word country, and I fail to see how you would justify saying otherwise.
If you object to this article being edited to reflect the reality of the sovereign state, sometimes known as the Kingdom of Denmark (although very rarely in the language of this encyclopaedia), which has every link relevant to it as a whole directed here, then you have no moral option other than to provide another article that such links should point to. Kevin McE (talk) 22:13, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
For the record Faroese and Greenlandic people do not have the same passports as Danes from Denmark, though they have Danish nationality. The article however already clearly defines both the country and the state and describes the differences between them, and even the infoboxmap includes both a map of the realm and one of the country.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 02:16, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Links could point to a newly re-created Kingdom of Denmark article, or the existing Danish Realm? Perhaps we could reshape the Danish Realm article into a short article outlining the politics and legal reality of the sovereign state as opposed to the European country; however, any information about geography, history, culture, etc. must belong in the articles of the respective countries that make up the Realm. We can't duplicate information across three articles to such a large degree. I suggested a situation similar to Kingdom of the Netherlands - which describes the sovereign state, but not the Netherlands - but you apparently ignored that suggestion. Frankly, you're being obstinate and avoiding any suggestions or solutions for a way forward. You are the one who needs to come up with a proposal that doesn't change the topic of this article. -- Hazhk (talk) 23:01, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps have a skim through articles that link here and see which ones obviously refer to the European country and which refer to the sovereign state. Also see the links pointing to Kingdom of Denmark. You will see that the European country is the primary topic. Therefore your proposal needs to focus on creating a new article (or renaming Danish Realm) where technical matters relating to a sovereign state can be outlined. --Hazhk (talk) 23:18, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
@Kevin McE I think you overlooked my previous comment on your previous entry above, so I have inserted a ping to notice you. As stated there I am convinced that three articles are needed. Namely article on "The Kingdom of Denmark", "Denmark" (which is Denmark proper) and "The Danish Realm" (which is synonymous with "The Unity of The Realm"). I am not entirely sure which one of these entities you are referring to as "the sovereign state", but I guess it must be The Danish Realm, if I take your geographical arguments into account. RhinoMind (talk) 09:47, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
And that is what I have been saying all along: there must be separate and distinct articles on the constituent country (Denmark proper/European Denmark) and the sovereign state (Kingdom of Denmark): I also believe that a wider survey might be needed to establish which of these is best placed at Denmark. It is probably indeed appropriate to have separate articles on the legal processes and documents (which is the way that the current article at Danish Realm is presented): it will definitely be appropriate to review, as Hazhk suggests, what links point where. What is definitely not appropriate, and the whole point of my intervention here, is having a unitary sovereign state made up of three constituent countries have any reference to it in this encyclopaedia directed to one of those countries, an article whose editors are resistant to making it be suitable as a redirect for those numerous links. Kevin McE (talk) 18:48, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Oh, then some in-depth debate appears to be fruitful after all. As I see it, the most straight forward approach right now would be to initiate an article about "The Kingdom of Denmark". As it is, it just redirects (as you also points out) to this "Denmark (proper)" article, which is wrong for many reasons, including purely geographical reasons.
Another point I would like to stress in relation to this, is that "The Danish Realm" article messes up a bit with "The Kingdom of Denmark" and use it almost like a synonym to "The Danish Realm". There are some overlaps, especially when it comes to geography, but they are not synonymous terms. I tried to fix some of the mess-ups on that page earlier, even drawing from sources and references already in the article, but about 60% of my efforts was destroyed by other users subsequently. I don't know their reasons exactly, as I didn't had the energy and time to argue about it on the TalkPage there, but now you guys (and future editors) have been warned that attempts to seperate, filter out and elaborate on "The Kingdom of Denmark" in relation to "The Danish Realm" could be another "up-the-hill" task. RhinoMind (talk) 19:21, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
The primary topic of Denmark is clearly and unequivocally the European country - the articlehowever of course needs to describe the fact that this country has overseas possessions that are part of the sovereign state by the same name. Perhaps a separate article on the "rigsfællesskab" is warranted, but it is by no means the primary topic of "Denmark" - neither in Danish nor in English and WP policy simply would not permit that. Personally I doubt very much that a separate article on the rigsfællesskab is useful - anything of relevance can easily be described within the article on "Denmark".·maunus · snunɐɯ· 12:14, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
The rigsfællesskab is covered in Danish Realm. That article was formerly titled rigsfællesskabet. --Hazhk (talk) 16:20, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Note: Rigsfællessskabet translates as "The Unity of The Realm". It is synonymous with "The Danish Realm". RhinoMind (talk) 17:35, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi. This is for everybody reading this. I have collected some informative and useful links that I wanted to provide and share here too. This whole issue is lacking in sound basic references, so I hope to make up for this. Some are in English, but I hope you can read a bit of Danish too?

About The Unity of The Realm and The Danish Realm. Translated English version here.
About The Unity of The Realm.
It is currently being broadcast across The Danish Realm and I can highly recommend it. There is a summary in English here.
About the differencies between Denmark and The Danish Realm.
About the meaning of Denmark and The Kingdom of Denmark.

RhinoMind (talk) 15:41, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Health in Denmark[edit]

I suggest Health in Denmark to be deleted and/or merged into this article. The Health in Denmark article has little potential to become more than a few alinea, which are already present in this article.

Pieceofmetalwork (talk) 16:34, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I haven't had a thorough look into the article Health in Denmark specifically, but the health care system in Denmark is unique and worth an article of its own. Also the health profile has some notable features. The cancer statistics is one example. RhinoMind (talk) 15:49, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 8 external links on Denmark. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Denmark. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:47, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

j — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanbir II (talkcontribs) 01:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)