Talk:Dieppe (disambiguation)

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Requested move 1[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. If renominated in the future, a case supported by facts needs to be made that there is a primary use. While it may be true that one of the items on the dab page has a majority of the page views, that is not the same as the primary use. Also, if renominated, this should be listed as a multipage move. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dieppe → Dieppe (disambiguation) – Dieppe, Seine-Maritime is the primary meaning, important French town. PatGallacher (talk) 12:18, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are you also proposing that Dieppe, Seine-Maritime be moved to Dieppe? If so, then please propose this as a multi-page move so that the affected pages will be notified. older ≠ wiser 12:28, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As with some previous discussions in relation to Romeo and Juliet I am proposing that we take this in stages. If we decided that the town in Seine-Maritime is the primary meaning, then we can decide its title. PatGallacher (talk) 16:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Dieppe, Seine-Maritime is in fact the primary topic for Dieppe, with 3 times the pageviews of the Canadian city. However, I do also agree that this should be a multi-move request, as there would be no reason to move this page unless the French city were to take the title. I've added a notice at Talk:Dieppe, Seine-Maritime to take care of that issue. Station1 (talk) 22:38, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose I think the Dieppe Raid is the primary meaning of Dieppe, but that's also about a raid on the town... so is a derived usage. 70.49.126.190 (talk) 04:01, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Like ≠, I would like the proposer to withdraw the RM, since it is not clear what overall outcome is intended. Issue a new one outlining precisely all of the moves envisaged. Do not merely explain here; the community needs to be advised correctly form the start. If a multiple RM is needed, call for one. Noetica^Tea? 09:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not intend to the withdraw the RM since it is clear what is intended. The proposal is to move Dieppe to Dieppe (disambiguation), and treat Dieppe, Seine-Maritime as the primary meaning, so Dieppe should redirect there. Any other move is a separate issue, a common name discussion rather than a primary topic discussion. PatGallacher (talk) 19:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for telling us that the intent of your RM is clear. We would not have known, otherwise. Three editors have pointed out its anomaly; others who scanned the list at WP:RM have not been informed, and have not confronted the issue with you. If this RM proceeds (and especially if it succeeds), the matter ought to go to WP:ANI for review. I watch with interest. Noetica^Tea? 22:36, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I hardly think an ANI is necessary, especially since this is clearly a good faith proposal and an admin will close this anyway. It's quite common that this type of request is made when a multi-move is technically preferable but usually it's the other way around, so people watching the dab page miss the notice. The only difference with a multi-move is that an automated notice is placed on the other article's talk page, and I've taken care of that manually. WP:RM shows both pages involved, so that's not an issue. I don't understand the purpose of redirecting Dieppe to the French city without actually moving it — either it's the primary topic or it isn't — so I would favor the move of both. But I'd be interested in your opinion on the substantive question as to whether or not the primary topic for Dieppe is the French city. Procedural technicalities shouldn't get in the way of a good move, and aren't necessary to stop a bad move. Station1 (talk) 04:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are a few cases where although an article is the primary topic it has not been moved there e.g. Cambyses. I suggest each issue should be considered on its own merits. PatGallacher (talk) 10:25, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested Move 2: New request for moving[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was moved, per consensus of the community. bd2412 T 17:30, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dieppe → Dieppe (disambiguation)
Dieppe, Seine-Maritime → Dieppe

– Listing multi-page move incorrectly listed as technical request. Original requester's reason is below. older ≠ wiser 21:54, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion from declined technical request

The comments below were initially from Technical requests, subsequently copied by an admin to Talk:Dieppe, Seine-Maritime as a single page move, when it should have been formulated as a multi-page move here. older ≠ wiser 22:03, 9 July 2013‎ (UTC)[reply]

I think Dieppe, city in northern France, is by far the most common use of this and we should move the contents of this to Dieppe (disambiguation) and place the article at Dieppe, Seine-Maritime here instead. Google book search should affirm that this is the right thing to do. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 18:49, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not necessarily contesting whether this would be a good move, but considering that there has already been at least one failed RM previously for nearly the same move, it might not be appropriate to do this as a technical move. older ≠ wiser 20:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Page Dieppe is a disambig page. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:40, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think Dieppe, city in northern France, is by far the most common use of this and we should move the contents of this to Dieppe (disambiguation) and place the article at Dieppe, Seine-Maritime here instead. Google book search should affirm that this is the right thing to do. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 17:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support-I second this motion. The Northern Gallic city of Dieppe is unquestionably the most common usage of the term. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 17:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This might not get much attention if it is not listed at WP:RM and in the event it is moved, the decision might be criticized on that basis. older ≠ wiser 17:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed here, if this isn't the correct procedure please correct it.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 18:51, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given that there was a failed RM discussion above for nearly the same move, I don't think this should be done as an uncontroversial technical request. It really should be listed as a full RM with discussion to determine if there is consensus. older ≠ wiser 20:48, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Clear primary meaning, important ferry port and resort, and scene of famous WW2 raid, significantly larger than New Brunswick town. The previous move request seems to have failed because of technical confusion rather than because of any clear conclusion that this was not the primary meaning. PatGallacher (talk) 23:24, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I suggest the argument that this use of Dieppe is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC needs something backing it up... page view counts vs the Dieppe of similar size in Canada, Google results... something. Otherwise, we have only pure opinion to go by. Thanks! --B2C 01:14, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Google book search shows 1.33 million hits for the French town, and when you google book search Dieppe Canada it mostly comes up with hits mentioning the Canadian military at Dieppe France. Searching for Dieppe, New Brunswick comes up with just 26,600 hits. As for Johnny "Dieppe" hits, I rest my case.. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 06:47, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What happens when you remove WWII from the mix? Does this Dieppe in France still come up on top? Since all those hits are for Canadian military at Dieppe, this indicates that the Dieppe Raid is the primary meaning for Dieppe. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 08:44, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I suggest that the WWII raid itself is the primary topic of "Dieppe", and that the town garner's a great portion of its notability by inheriting it from the battle. So "Dieppe" should redirect to the raid article -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:02, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It still comes down to the raid @ Dieppe. On your reasoning the Dunkirk article should also be about the WWII event not the town; and we'd move the Japanese cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima to the bombings too. That if anything represent a bias towards the Anglo nations. Dieppe has always been a town in France. Yes, it is famous to the majority of people for only the events of WWII but it doesn't change the fact that it is a French town in it's own right and to French locals is more than just a WWII event. Dieppe to me purely means "town and commune of northern France", much like Calais and Dunkirk.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 06:56, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment, I'm in the Franco world (Quebec), and it still only means the Raid. Just because something is old doesn't make it the primary meaning, vis-a-vis Boston and the older Boston, Lincolnshire. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 08:40, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - for all the reasons given above.--Ipigott (talk) 07:52, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - overwhelmingly the primary meaning. - SchroCat (talk) 07:55, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - seems to be primary meaning, and even if a reader is looking for the raid they are at the right geographical place. Possibly for a lot of Britons it's more well known as a Channel port on the other end of the ferry from Newhaven and therefore a gateway to a holiday in France. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:31, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - for all the reasons given above. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:14, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - for all the reasons given above. There's only one Dieppe I think about when I think about Dieppe. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:27, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It might be Canada-centric to regard the WW2 raid as the primary meaning. For many British people the town has serious importance beyond the raid, many people have passed through to enter France (including myself and my father) as Newhaven-Dieppe is the most direct route from London to Paris. It was the main French port in the 17th century, scene of some significant battles besides the WW2 raid, fashionable resort for a time, Oscar Wilde spent time there and it figures in one of Saki's short stories, The Way to the Dairy. [1] PatGallacher (talk) 18:37, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support the French town at primary title. The Raid is no doubt well known, but even if it is the most commonly used meaning (which I doubt), when a famous event is known for a place, we still routinely use the place as primary disambiguation. (Compare, eg, Pearl Harbor, or Somme). Andrew Gray (talk) 20:01, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree, compare also Bannockburn, even though the battle is by some way the best known thing about the place, and Stalingrad, which redirects to Volgograd, not the WW2 battle. PatGallacher (talk) 20:22, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - IMO, Bannockburn should also be the battle. While Stalingrad might be a disambiguation page (considering the related nearby battle of Kursk, the two battles are often conflated) -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:53, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - thr town is the primary meaning. Mjroots (talk) 19:31, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - the town is clearly the main topic here.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 09:03, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support as the obvious primary topic. When I hear or see the name "Dieppe" I think of it first as a holiday resort popular with both the French and the British before the days of mass air travel (an aspect that should be expanded greatly in the article - for example this recent BBC broadcast discussed it extensively, and we don't seem to even mention the famous casino), then as a ferry port, distantly third as somewhere where I vaguely recall that there was fighting in World War II and have never heard of anywhere in any other country with this name. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:26, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.