Talk:Disney Princess

Raya

Why do people keep adding Raya in this article?? Georgia guy (talk) 17:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Because they don't know who the official Princesses are, just as they are shown on the official website ([1]), and they think that any new Disney heroine is obligatorily a Disney Princess. --BrookTheHumming (talk) 15:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, the Walt Disney Company is officially adding Raya to the franchise now. Here is the URL that says so: https://www.romper.com/entertainment/raya-and-the-last-dragon-disney-princess 47.187.204.38 (talk) 02:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

That's the plan. Has it happened? Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:55, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

It is just beginning. 47.187.204.38 (talk) 03:09, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Raya is officially considered a Disney Princess now. 47.187.204.38 (talk) 07:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

The film is listed on the website. 47.187.201.246 (talk) 17:32, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Just because the official website has not yet been updated doesn't mean Raya is not a princess of this franchise. Just as anonymous users said, her film is already listed on official Disney Princess website. Maybe you all should educate yourself better with the news rather than mocking people and stating they're uneducated. Snowladen (talk) 05:57, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Raya (and her movie) are listed on princess.disney.com, disneyplus.com/franchise/disney-princess, as well as being welcomed during World Princess Week in Aug 2022 (https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2022/08/celebrating-raya-for-world-princess-week/) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5EB3:6810:B0E1:94C:D556:1A92 (talk) 17:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

If you go to princess.disney.com and scroll down to "Discover (or Rediscover) your Favorite Princess Films" Raya and The Last Dragon is the 1st one listed. There is even officially branded "Disney Princess" dolls for Raya. https://shop.mattel.com/collections/disney-princess 2600:1700:5EB3:6810:8031:89B1:A5B8:7084 (talk) 20:33, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, on the official disney shop it lists Raya in the princess category. https://www.shopdisney.com/characters/disney/disney-princess/raya/

There is more evidence that Raya *IS* a princess from official disney sources than there is evidence to the contrary. 2600:1700:5EB3:6810:8031:89B1:A5B8:7084 (talk) 20:55, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

The consensus, at least as I have heard, is that in order for a character to be listed as a Disney Princess, they have to be on the characters subsection of https://princess.disney.com/ (the other sections on the page really do not matter) and have a dedicated subpage on that website (for instance, https://princess.disney.com/ariel). For Raya, https://princess.disney.com/raya leads to a 404 page, thus she is not considered official (although the fact that she is now getting branded merchandise does mean she should at least get a mention, possibly alongside Tinker Bell and Esmerelda). The reason coronations in particular do not matter is because of Elena, who got one back in 2016 (footage of the event). While no formal discussions have ever happened, past discussions on Talk:Disney Princess and Template talk:Disney Princess consistently refer to viewing the website as a metaphorical gospel. The branded merchandise, however, is undeniable to an extent. (Oinkers42) (talk) 01:57, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

1. 1 Listed as an official princess here: https://www.shopdisney.com/characters/disney/disney-princess/raya/
2. 2 her movies is listed as one of the 13 official Disney Princess movies here: https://princess.disney.com/movies
3. 3 Disney themselves announced she was being welcomed as a princess here: https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2022/08/world-princess-week-returns-next-week/
4. 4 Disney then wrote another articled saying that she had been welcomed here: as well as being welcomed during World Princess Week in Aug 2022 (https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2022/08/celebrating-raya-for-world-princess-week)
5. 5 she was announced and is regularly featured on the Office Disney Princesse instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/thedisneyprincesses/feed/?hl=en
6. 6 She is one of 13 princesses featured on the Disney Shop princesses category with officially branded merchandise: https://www.shopdisney.com/characters/disney/disney-princess/ and https://www.shopdisney.com/characters/disney/disney-princess/raya/

At this point the only counterpoint seems to be that https://princess.disney.com/ hasn't made a specific landing page for Raya which feels kind of weak when you compare to the 6 separate primary sources above. 2600:1700:5EB3:6810:8031:89B1:A5B8:7084 (talk) 16:16, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Regardless, you are going to need to start a proper discussion for this, I will help get you started. (Oinkers42) (talk) 16:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: CMN2160B

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 22 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Minhhang1406 (article contribs).

Potential to Add Raya as a Disney Princess (or, a formal discussion on the inclusion criteria)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Several editors over the last several months have attempted to add Raya to the official list of Disney Princesses. While Disney has had an official coronation for the character (as seen here) as well as many other things as stated above, the character has not had a landing page added to the franchise's website. The consensus (though never formally declared) has stated that a unique landing page on the website is required. Should this still be applied, or should a new criteria be established? @Loriendrew: @BrookTheHumming: @TheFairyTaleLover: (Oinkers42) (talk) 17:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Her inclusion on the official website is somewhat strange, since she doesn't have a profile on the website, but her film is listed among those of the other 12 members. However, while she has not yet been featured on the website, she has been featured on merchandise for the Disney Princess franchise (as seen here and here). So, although for some reason she still does not have a profile on the website (I suppose due to secondary marketing issues), officially she is a member of the franchise due to being featured in official merchandise. So I would therefore propose to include her on the Wikipedia page (unless it is decided to continue with the condition of including her once she has a profile on the official Disney website). BrookTheHumming (talk) 17:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

There is page edit notice, Template:Editnotices/Page/Disney Princess which should have been developed via consensus in the past. Did the coronation actually occur? The linked Disney blog is WP:FUTURE, not that it did happen. ShopDisney includes Raya, as well as Elsa who is not part of the franchise. There is often confusion about being a Disney Princess (character) and a Disney Princess (franchise member). Disney is pretty proficient at marketing, would highly doubt her missing from the lineup as an oversight. As she is not on the "roster" of the franchise website, I am unable to support inclusion. As always, will abide by consensus.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 21:05, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

You know, looking at it again, I do not think a formal coronation was ever actually held. Admittedly, this does not change much as 1, Moana never had such a coronation, and 2, Elena from Elena of Avalor did. Also, she was still stated on official material, such as the "blog" mentioned above. (Oinkers42) (talk) 02:05, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Raya was announced and is regularly featured on the Office Disney Princess instagram account. https://www.instagram.com/thedisneyprincesses/feed/?hl=en

1. Currently there is even a "watch party" for Raya as the second story post
2. The post from 3/20 is exclusively Raya. As is the one from 9/10/2022, 8/26/2022 (which labels her film part of the "Disney Ultimate Princess Collection," 8/21/2022, 8/20/2022, and the 2 posts from 8/19/2022 (when she was welcomed for World Princess Week).
3. She is also featured along with the other official princesses on 2 posts from 8/21/2022 (which announced a Raya Watch Party), 8/19/2022,
4. I went back about 2 years and it's worth noting that the account only appears to regularly feature/post about the 13 official Disney princesses (so no Elsa, Princess Leia,

2620:160:E308:0:0:0:0:E (talk) 13:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I think the link you sent is not working. (Oinkers42) (talk) 14:50, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

That instagram feed also includes other non–franchise princesses. If the source includes Anna/Elsa or any other princess who are not Princess™️ members should not be used to bolster arguements for inclusion.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 15:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

It appears they were featured for cross promotion activities but were not featured for World Princess week. All the other points are still valid 2600:1700:5EB3:6810:173:181A:B6CD:4D1C (talk) 02:52, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

• Tentative include: I know nothing about this, but some Googling has led me to think the appropriate thing to do is include. First, according to this Disney Magazine blog that was published today (May 24, 2023), "The newest addition to the official Disney princess list is Raya, who has joined the ranks of Mulan, Moana, and Merida after being confirmed as an official Disney princess during World Princess Week in 2022." [2]. Additionally, secondary sources (that is, those purporting to rely and interpret primary sources), seemed to have interpreted Disney's prior announcement as indicating Raya is an official Disney princess. See this Seventeen Magazine article, this Geekspin article, or this Romper article. We might disagree with the secondary sources' interpretations, but given their unanimity and the WDW blog, I think inclusion is warranted.--Jerome Frank Disciple 17:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Voorts: The edit notice was based on a commented out message that had been in the page source since 2012: Special:Diff/529380177. It was moved to an edit notice because of the large number of reverted edits coming from editors using Visual Editor who were not able to see the comments in the source. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 01:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ahecht: Thank you for clarifying. For others involved in the above discussion, that doesn't change my conclusion here since the only justification for that comment appears to be past practice, not consensus. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I would argue that a comment that stayed in the article for 11 years (and whose wording was tweaked by multiple editors to arrive at the current text) without any complaints on the talk page is an implied consensus. That said, consensus can change. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 13:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

That's a fair point, but per my close, it appears the consensus is being challenged (and has been in the past threads I've found in the talk page archives), so further discussion is appropriate. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Just note that Raya has been officially added now (she's listed on the website). Pamzeis (talk) 07:40, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Disney Princes

Would a section of the often called "Disney Princes" be appropriate? Listing those who are the couples of the Princesses in the franchise. Or maybe it may be unnecessary? (I don't know if it would be something really related to the franchise, or if it's something that would be more like a "Trivia section"). 90.164.159.7 (talk) 18:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

There are no "Princes" within this franchise. Partners/companions of various characters can be found with their own respective articles.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 20:33, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Palace Pets

Palace Pets is already mentioned in the article, but... Maybe there should be a section here as a sub-franchise, focusing on information about it? 90.164.159.7 (talk) 21:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Frozen

What about Anna and Elsa? 2607:FEA8:D182:5900:B22F:E5C2:8EBD:8D1A (talk) 01:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

They are currently not considered part of the line up according to https://princess.disney.com/. Once they are, they can be added onto the list. (Oinkers42) (talk) 02:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Criticism of franchise based on age of characters

I undid the addition of a criticism section that was based on an a single opinion piece from HuffPost that noted that the stories didn't reflect contemporary social expectations. Basically that some of the characters were too young for the stores being told about them. This criticism is not widespread, as likely most people don't expect that older stories reflect modern norms about acceptable teen behavior in fiction. Also the section was one sided on the issue and goes against WP:NPOV. Geraldo Perez (talk) 00:27, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

"didn't reflect contemporary social expectations" That is what TVTropes calls Values Dissonance: "Other tropes find it difficult to age gracefully. The world being the dynamic and evolving place that it is, some aspects of the media don't quite manage to keep pace with the time and become the "Grumpy Old Men" of Tropeland. Tropes like An Aesop are very prone to this. Aesops act as direct moral teachings, explicitly posed as what you should do, so exporting it, or viewing it twenty years post-creation, can often result in a sour taste left in the viewer's mouth." In other words, values change, conventional morality changes, and social expectations may be completely different within a couple of decades. There is plenty of debate in print and online about the moral values depicted in the Disney Animated Canon. But several of the "princess" films in the Cannon are decades old, and you can't expect films from the 1930s, 1950s, and 1980s to "reflect contemporary social expectations". Take for example Cinderella (1950). As a tale of domestic abuse and sibling rivalry, the film depicts situations that are still relevant in the 21st century. As a tale of romance, not so much. Cinderella (the character) in this version marries a virtual stranger which she has only met once, and very briefly. One of the film's peculiarities is that the couple rarely speak to each other, and apparently haven't even learned each other's names by the end of the film. Dimadick (talk) 14:41, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

@Geraldo Perez there are plenty of articles about the subject and I was in the middle of editing it on my phone (which compared to a desktop or laptop computer does have some limitations) when you decided to revert the edits like the edits on the Epstein list. I do think that there is a legitimate discussion point about this and how Disney itself has addressed it in recent years.

However, the fact that you keep reverting it does make me think you're hiding something and apparently have no issue with such issues. I'm walking away and editing other things right now, but much like the sexuality of Aaron Hernandez got removed before eventually becoming a whole section, it'll get added eventually. Jgera5 (talk) 15:52, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

Fully concur with User:Geraldo Perez. Most fairy tales in general are vulnerable to criticism as based on obsolete or archaic value systems. Most people who attend properly-funded high schools or universities are already aware of that. Those institutions are supposed to torture students with learning the art of close reading, which includes looking at whether the characters in a particular work of fiction are operating in a fundamentally different cultural frame of reference from the modern reader. As for the rest, it is not WP's job to go out of its way to educate people on such things. See WP:NOT ("Wikipedia is not a soapbox, a battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda, advertising, and showcasing") and WP:COATRACK.

The criticism section would be more appropriate if it were reinforced by multiple citations to academic articles or books targeting Disney animation and the Disney Princess franchise in particular.

Also, User:Jgera5's ad hominem attacks on User:Geraldo Perez both in the above post ("does make you think you're hiding something") and in the revert edit summary are clear violations of Wikipedia:Civility. I don't have the time to take this to WP:ANI right now but will support anyone who does. --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:02, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

The more I think about this, User:Jgera5's revert edit summary is bad enough as to trigger WP:REVDEL, specifically RD2. If there are any other similar edit summaries or uncivil comments in User:Jgera5's contribution history within the last year, that would be enough to take this to WP:ANI for appropriate remedies. --Coolcaesar (talk) 02:00, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

Usually when I see one inappropriate personal attack from a user, it's part of a series of personal attacks and puerile insults that may support an inference of WP:NOTHERE. A quick review shows User:Jgera5 has a history of them: [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] So User:Jgera5's edits need to be watched closely; one more in short succession should be enough to take this to WP:ANI. --Coolcaesar (talk) 03:52, 8 September 2025 (UTC)