Talk:Dissociative identity disorder

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I suggest we remove that artist's depiction. It is emotionally vivid, and I don't think that's the tone this article should set.

23chaosmosis (talk) 21:13, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

i agree zlouiemark [ T ] [ C ] 16:51, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Done. --Thnidu (talk) 00:24, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
23chaosmosis (talk · contribs), Zlouiemark45546 (zlouiemark) and Thnidu, what good reason is there to remove that image? "Emotionally vivid"? So are the lead images in the Major depressive disorder and Self-harm articles, respectively (as currently seen here and here). People made similar arguments for removing the cutting image from the Self-harm article; see here for an example. The IP argued, "I have taken out the picture of the injured arm because this image could be triggering to self-harmers who view this page." I reverted, stating, "The self-harm image helps people understand this mindset, is presented in an encyclopedic manner." That person showed up again as a different IP, and was reverted again. Then Fraggle81 made a hidden note about the image, which I tweaked. Doc James has also been against its removal, as seen by the "reverted again" diff-link and currently in this discussion. If there is some valid Wikipedia:Offensive material guideline rationale for removing the lead image for the Dissociative identity disorder article, then I can agree with its removal. Either way, I don't feel strongly about its removal, but I don't think that the removal should have a WP:IDON'TLIKEIT rationale. Flyer22 (talk) 00:55, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
For anyone who comes across this discussion, this a link to the image for easy viewing. Flyer22 (talk) 01:06, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Flyer22 (talk · contribs) i guess it's quite a vague depiction. there's something that's not in there and there's something that shouldn't be in that abstract painting. i could give you several reasons. i know its not perfect but i dont think its necessary. zlouiemark [ T ] [ C ] 01:31, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
The image has been present a long time. We need further discussion and consensus before we remove it. We often use abstract art for mental illness. And this is common practice in the field of psychiatry / psychology. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Zlouiemark45546, like I stated, I don't feel strongly about the image staying or going. But I prefer that it's there; images (especially lead images) usually make an article more welcoming to our readers (I'm speaking from personal experience editing this site). So, Doc James, I agree with your restoration of the image. Flyer22 (talk) 02:09, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
@23chaosmosis, Doc James, and Flyer22: I know a number of people, both on the web and in RealSpace™:-), for whom some topics and images are potentially triggery, and other people who routinely preface their posts with trigger warnings if appropriate. This seemed to me to be a picture that could be such a trigger: though neither of the objections mentioned that explicitly, I felt that "emotionally vivid" could refer to such a quality for that writer, and so I deleted it.
But I wasn't aware of the parallel history at Self-harm. Having read your replies, I withdraw my opposition to the picture, pending possible further discussion introducing relevant new material.
(BTW, irrelevantly to the present discussion, I feel some sympathy for the IP in the Self-harm discussion. A personal history of self-harm is a very valid reason for desiring anonymity, and the different IP could very easily be simply an artifact of anonymous login, possibly from different public computers (e.g., in a library).) --Thnidu (talk) 04:13, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia fills an interesting space in publishing. We are not a self help guide for patients and we are not a medical textbook for practitioners. We are sort of a bit of both. People have tried to remove the image at vertigo as they said it made them worse. People have tried to move the image at smallpox as they felt it was unpleasant. People have tried to remove the images at Mohammad as they have been deemed culturally insensitive. People have tried to remove the images at Rorschach test as they supposedly give away the tests secrets. I think Wikipedia would be a lot less educational if we were to remove a large portions of the images.
The picture here is fairly innocuous as a trigger. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:24, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Thnidu, I understand the "triggering" argument. That's why I cited an IP's "triggering" argument above. I also cited that IP's argument in this discussion at the Sexual assault talk page when debating with AThing. As you can see there, I took part of my wording from there for this dissociative identity disorder discussion. I also relented in that case, and Liesbeth98 removed the image. But "triggering" arguments are not how Wikipedia is supposed to work unless there is a valid WP:Offensive material rationale. I only relented in the case of the Sexual assault article because of the WP:Offensive material rationale that AThing put forth. Others might agree or disagree with the removal of that image. I don't care as much anymore if it stays or goes; I didn't care much then either, but, like I noted above, I think removals should be valid. Flyer22 (talk) 04:49, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
@Doc James and Flyer22: Thanks for the explanations. As I said above, I withdraw my objections to the picture. --Thnidu (talk) 14:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
For future reference: Since this article is on my WP:Watchlist, there is no need to WP:Ping me to it. Flyer22 (talk) 21:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks User:Thnidu :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:35, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Addition to disorder definition (edit)[edit]

As I was reading through the introduction to the disorder, I realized there was one possible important aspect not mentioned. This disorder, as said in my edit, does not necessarily imply the creation of new personalities. DID is more related to bringing forward some charactheristics already existent in the patient's character. A patient may develop a "shy personality", yet in reality, it is just a shy-er version of themselves, something that might have been repressed. This is my proposed edit:

DID is a disorder of identity fragmentation, it does not imply the creation of new found personalities within the patient. Rather, the dissorder causes a separation, and forward bringing, of the different charactheristics already existing within the patient's character.[1]


Vferrer00 (talk) 02:17, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

To be more accurate what you propose could be written like this: DID is a mental disorder resulting from "structural dissociation of the personality" which results in the creation of personality states that are verified by fMRI scans. Try reading Neurobiology and Treatment of Traumatic Dissociation by Lanius, Paulesn and Corrigan rather than visiting a blog for information. I went to the link you provided and what is there is correct but their terminology confused you. Memory loss means "true amnesia," as opposed to "dissociative amnesia," and it is the switching between distinct states, as has been shown on fMRI that dictates DID. What the author is trying to say is that DID is not caused by a "split in the personality." Imagine how silly that sounds to a neurologist. The personality is a group of neurons, and you can't split them. Anyway, the author is trying to point out that DID is caused by the creation of personality states, (the author used the term personalities, but with the understanding that readers know what that means. It's one of many states that make up the personality) rather than what was once thought, which is that it was caused by the silly idea that a personality could split. Tiredofidiots (talk) 01:57, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
The problem is, FMRI scans only show changes in blood flow/activity, not content. Currently you can't distinguish between, say, a switch between personalities, and a switch of attention from behaving normally to behaving in a social role. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned or referenced - just that it shouldn't be taken as absolute proof that DID is realy and caused by trauma. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 17:22, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Mania — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2C34:6A50:C3F:6ED4:6546:4DFA (talk) 09:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Consider adding depth through a section on cultural variations[edit]

Though I understand this to be a very Empirical article in reference to Dissociative Identity Disorder, the DSM-V clearly mentions cultural variation as an implication for clinical diagnosis. I believe as cultural sensitivity and its addition to our clinical repertoire increases, one must undoubtedly understand phenomenon which occur in other cultures that are congruent with DID.

Here is my proposed edit, to be under Society and Culture(I am an undergraduate Psychology student, currently a 4th year, and would definitely appreciate any input, I am also new to this):

Cultural Variation of DID[edit]

One of the controversial aspects of DID which was was not taken into consideration until its inclusion within the DSM-V, is possession as a cultural variation of DID.[1]

Janice Boddy from the Department of Anthropology, University of Toronto stated [2]:

Spirit Possession commonly refers to the hold exerted over a human being by external forces or entities more powerful than she. These forces may be ancestors or divinities, ghosts of foreign origin, or entities both ontologically and ethnically alien. Some societies evince multiple spirit forms. Depending on cultural and etiological context such spirits may be exorcised, or lodged in relatively permanent relationship with their host (or medium), occasionally usurping primacy of place in her body (even donning their own clothes and speaking their own languages) during bouts of possession trance.

Spirit Possession is seen in a variety of cultures around the world. Not limited to but including African traditions, African Diaspora traditions, Asian traditions, Oceanic traditions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Wicca, and Shamanism.

Main article: Spirit possession


  1. ^ "Highlights of Changes from DSM-IV-TR to DSM-5" (PDF). American Psychiatric Association. 2013-05-17. Retrieved 2015-05-16. 
  2. ^ Boddy, Janice (1994). "Spirit Possession Revisited: Beyond Instrumentality". Annual Review of Anthropology 23 (23): 407. Retrieved 14 March 2015. 

Beyondthecloud9 (talk) 06:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)Beyondthecloud9 (talk) 06:06, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Those sources do not seem to make a connection between the two phenomena. Samsara 09:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Spirit possession is already mentioned in § History of the DSM diagnosis. The DSM also states that "the majority of possession states around the world are normal, usually part of spiritual practice, and do not meet criteria for dissociative identity disorder," which is why we should avoid WP:SYNTH with sources that do not explicitly mention DID (like your second source). KateWishing (talk) 11:52, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the input. I will reformulate the factoids I used. Even though it does mention that the majority of possession states around the world are normal, in the Highlights of Changes from the DSM-IV-TR to DSM-5 issued by APA Publishing in 2013, page 10, under Dissociative Disorders, it does state that: "Also, experiences of pathological possession in some cultures are included in the description of identity disruption". Would it then be more appropriate to delineate some of these pathological possession states as seen through empirical evidence? Or would this then be a more appropriate addition to Dissociative disorder not otherwise specified? As well as mentioning that the clinical presentation be a pathological possession rather than one attributed to culturally accepted spiritual practices involving the same? I'm having a hard time with this assignment. Thanks in advance.Beyondthecloud9 (talk) 02:39, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Per our policy against synthesizing sources, every source you cite must specifically mention DID. This material would not be appropriate in its current form for Dissociative disorder not otherwise specified, either. However, you might be able to contribute to that page by updating it with information from the DSM-5 entry for "Other Specified Dissociative Disorder". KateWishing (talk) 04:15, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Would this be a better edit then under Diagnosis? (this extract is less than 400 words so its doesnt violate APA copywrite)

Issues Affecting Diagnosis[edit]


The DSM 5 elaborates on cultural background as an influence for some clinical presentations of DID.[1]

Many features of dissociative identity disorder can be influenced by the individual's cultural background. Individuals with this disorder may present with prominent medically unexplained neurological symptoms, such as non-epileptic seizures, paralyses, or sensory loss, in cultural settings were such symptoms are common. Similarly, in settings where normative possession is common (e.g., rural areas in the developing world, among certain religious groups in the United States and Europe), the fragmented identities may take the form of possessing spirits, deities, demons, animals, or mythical figures. Acculturation or prolonged intercultural contact may shape the characteristics of other identities(e.g., identities in India may speak English exclusively and wear Western clothes). Possession-form dissociative identity disorder can be distinguished from culturally accepted possession states in that the former is involuntary, distressing, uncontrollable, and often recurrent or persistent; involves conflict between the individual and his or her surrounding family, social,or work milieu; and is manifested at times and in places that violate the norms of the culture or religion.

Beyondthecloud9 (talk) 07:09, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

  1. ^ Association], [American Psychiatry (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders : DSM-5 (5th ed. ed.). Washington [etc.]: American Psychiatric Publishing. p. 295. ISBN 978-0-89042-555-8. 

Verification in Sar et al. 2011[edit]

In § Developmental trauma the sentence

[People diagnosed with DID] report more historical psychological trauma than those diagnosed with any other mental illness.

was flagged "failed verification" in August 2012. I looked at the source, which is a secondary source, and found ample verification for the sentence: see the diff. I removed the tag and added a quote, and a reference to another section of the paper. --Thnidu (talk) 00:21, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Dissociative identity disorder: An empirical overview - This needs to be added to the page[edit]

Australian & New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry 2014, Vol. 48(5) 402 –417 DOI: 10.1177/0004867414527523 © The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists 2014 Reprints and permissions: Australian & New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 48(5) Introduction Dissociative identity disorder (DID) has an auspicious place in the archives of psychiatry. It captured the attention of many of the great 19th and early 20th century thinkers, whose ideas form the foundation of modern psychiatric thought (James, 1896 [see Taylor, 1983], Janet, 1907; Prince, 1905). More recently DID has become the subject of considerable debate (e.g. Dalenberg et al., 2012; Gleaves, 1996; McHugh and Putnam, 1995; Merskey, 1992), especially around its validity, aetiology and prevalence. Often overlooked is the empirical understanding of DID accrued over 30 years, and which Dissociative identity disorder: An empirical overview. AlF6Na3 (talk) 00:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)