Talk:Dit da jow

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Reguarding the liniment Dit Da Jow. I use Dit Da Jow myself, and it's good stuff, but this article still has major issues with POV. TallNapoleon (talk) 20:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I heartily agree. "Kung fu practitioners found that repeated bruising caused stagnant blood and qi..." Look, I'm a kung fu student, but I seriously doubt the medical merit of those comments. (talk) 15:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the passage quoted above, it's actually been plagiarized from Tom Bisio's book "A Tooth From the Tiger's Mouth" (ISBN: 0-7432-4551-2) page 175 and should probably be removed. ~3rickZann — Preceding unsigned comment added by 3rickZann (talkcontribs) 02:31, 1 September 2012 (UTC) Update: I went ahead and removed it. 3rickZann (talk) 02:42, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Snake Oil[edit]

It's pretty interesting reading this article right after reading about Snake Oil. It's almost as if they were the same thing. "Secret ingredients" that mainly use camphor, etc. You would think that with modern day science, someone would put an end to this nonsense. Too bad culture and religion triumphs logic any day. (talk) 16:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Serious POV issues and unverifiable claims[edit]

This article has some extremely severe issues with how it presents medical claims without any verifiable sources. One of the biggest offenses is that many of the medical claims are backed up with primary medical sources that are not peer-reviewed, small-scale, and non-controlled. In other words, the sources used to back up medical claims on this article fail every guideline of WP:MEDRS possible.

In order to hopefully improve the quality of this article, I'm removing the offending sources and adding citation needed tags to medical claims that are not backed by reliable secondary sources. I've also added this article to Wikiproject Skepticism's watchlist in hopes that other editors can help find reliable sources for this article and remove claims that are not verifiable. Karzelek (talk) 23:30, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Empirical Science and Traditional Medicine[edit]

This topic is very valid for Wiki, but it's difficult to find a purely scholarly approach to it (there's probably a great deal in Chinese, but not in English).

I'm no expert, but I'd be happy to post my comments here for someone more knowledgeable to jump run with:

Liniments in Chinese Medicine-- Traditional Chinese Medicine has an extensive repertoire with which to approach external trauma. Dit Da Jow (whose name is loosely translated as "injury healing wine") is one of several kinds of external liniments used both for treatment of injuries and athletic injury prevention. Dit Da Jow is sometimes referred to as a blood stasis liniment because it's believed that the herbs commonly used help to disperse the blocked blood and swelling that causes bruising. (Other kinds of liniment categories include kinds that are more familiar to western consumers --Cold liniments that reduce swelling and block pain with a cold counter-irritant effect, that include camphor like "Icy Hot" brand, and Hot liniments that increase local circulation with rubrifacents like capsaicin, and also offer counter-irritant effects, such as "Sloan's Liniment}.

Formula-- While the basis of many Dit Da Jow formulas include time-tested anti-inflammatory ingredients such as frankincense, myrrh, Safflower petals, and Tien Chi (panax notoginseng), Chinese culture abounds with variation and secret formulas. Many medical experts and martial artists throughout history have concocted their own formulas or tweaked the formulas to suit their needs, perhaps adding ingredients to create more of a warming or cooling nature, or to target certain areas of the body like tendons, muscle or skin. Animistic elements may also sometimes be added for psychological effect, including ferocious animal claws or teeth.

Uses-- First and foremost, Dit Da Jow is used for traumatic injury, particularly for bruising. (Some practitioners prefer to apply a cold liniment first to reduce the swelling, and then use Dit Da Jow the next day). Applied to a bruise, one can expect to see it cycle through the process of healing much more quickly and with less discomfort and swelling. The liniment may be applied as a compress on sprains and strains.

Dit Da Jow is also considered to have protective qualities and is considered vital in Chinese martial arts hand training, where the hands are gradually toughened by repeated striking on a variety of surfaces. The Training is called "Iron Palm Training" and Dit Da Jow formulas for it are often tweaked to include more "protective" herbs. And of course it is applied to the usual aches and pains associated with sports.

Variations of Dit Da Jow are also formulated specifically for arthritis, rheumatism and other common discomforts. Other variations include powders for open wounds (such as the patent formula Yunnan Pai Yao), pastes that can be used for external poultices, pills to provide internal support for healing like Chin Koo Tieh Shang Wan).

In any case, legitimate Dit Da Jow is by no means snake oil, but has a verified track record going back hundreds of years, and is used daily in Chinese hospitals and by athletes around the world. StacheNYC (talk) 08:46, 15 August 2015 (UTC)StacheNYC