Talk:Dnyaneshwar

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Untitled[edit]

Anybody to explain warkari tradition and its relation with nath sect?

- Warkaris is branch evolved from Nath sect. In fact, Dnyaneshwar's elder brother Nivrutti Nath was a desciple of a Nath yogi. Gathering more information on this-Mannoj 09:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


Warkari tradition is a part of Nath sect...I am giving a ABHANGA below written by Maauli Dnyaneshwar where it is clearly mentioned about this cult...And how come the Dnyana came to Dnyaneshwar आदिनाथ गुरु सकळ सिद्धांचा मच्छिंद्र तयाचा मुख्य शिष्य मच्छिंद्र ज्ञान गोरक्षासी दिधले गोरक्ष वोळला गहिनीप्रती गहिनी प्रसादे निवृत्ती दातार ज्ञानदेवा सार चोजाविले

Aadinath-Lord Shiva, Macchhindra- Main guru of Navanatha, Goraksha- Gorakshanath, Gahininath- One of the 84 siddhas of nath cult, Nivrutti- Brother and Guru of Dnyaneshwar. Here Maauli Dnyaneshwar himself stating the way of boon (vardan) been transffered to him throuth Lord Aadhinath to Macchhindra to Goraksha to Gahininath to Nivruttinath finally to Dnyaneshwar.... swapniladitya — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swapniladitya (talkcontribs) 12:34, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

For this page.

A photo is needed - Somebody has done this - Mannoj 09:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

More info on siblings needed

Info on bhagawata sect needed

The first section says:[edit]

He was a yogi born in a socially marginalized high-caste family.

In the section on childhood, it says that he was from deshastha brahmin family. I think the first section should also say that he was from deshastha brahmin family.Tkul 22:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Considering the Universal nature of Wikipedia, First para rightly explains the Kulkarni Family's social status (socially marginalized high-caste family.) Adding the word brahmin there would make it difficult for a reader unfamilier with the word Brahmin. However, that detail is put, as you have mentioned,in the childhood section - Mannoj 09:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC) __________________________________________________________

Haripath[edit]

-If you live Normal life day and night without God into consideration,How It Is Accepted? In that case,it is waste of mind.Dnyaneshwar Mauli says in Haripath and asks to take Naam continously.

Request for clarification/expansion[edit]

In this translated portion:

Translation: I will bring great knowledge of Vedas, Upanishads, Shastras and Bhagvadgita from Sanskrit in my mother tongue Marathi. Thus, provide status to common poor people who know Marathi but don’t know Sanskrit. He regarded the upliftment of all sectors of society as very important and stressed that caste should be based on qualities not birth.

is he saying he wants the caste system to continue but be based on different factors, or is he really saying he wants no one barred from access to the Vedas, Upanishads, etc because of their caste, language, etc? (I cannot read the original quote, so that is why I am asking ... the rest of the translation -- his desire for the upliftment of all -- is very clear, but that one part about reconfiguring the caste system seems a bit unclear.)

Also, I wondered if any editor could fill in any details about his desire for Samadhi after he returned from his final pilgrimage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iddli (talkcontribs) 20:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The section on sanjeevan samadhi needs to be updated. It is believed that he took the samadhi; however, references may be missing.Tkul (talk)Tkul —Preceding comment was added at 01:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

"Gyaneshwar"[edit]

I notice that Gyaneshwar is a redirect here. I was trying to look up a more recent "Sant Gyaneshwar", a guru who was apparently involved in some sort of illegal activities and was ambushed and killed in 2006. Frank Black wrote a song about him, but I don't think he has released it on any official album (it's on the 2007 Live at KEXP compilation). I can't find a lot on line about this topic, but see this February 11, 2006 story from Associated Press. Anyway, I suspect that Gyaneshwar should be a disambiguation rather than a redirect, (or that that this article should have hat text) and that this other person was also notable enough for an article, albeit less notable than the subject of the present article. - Jmabel | Talk 03:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The incident only does not prove his notability. Wikipedia is not news. --Redtigerxyz Talk 09:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
The incident, plus the fact that Frank Black wrote a song about it, means that someone is going to want to look it up. I did a bit more looking around. It merited BBC coverage. Someone looking that up and finding this article is definitely going to have a W.T.F moment. I certainly did. - Jmabel | Talk 22:07, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Need references for the Frank Black thing. BBC coverage is also News. --Redtigerxyz Talk 05:20, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Amrutanubhav[edit]

We need more info on this work. Can anyone post some links/ material on it? -Mayuresh 16:06, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Title and First Section[edit]

"Sant Dnyaneshwar" is almost never referred to as just "Dnyaneshwar". I find it rather odd to have the title and first section refer to this great saint without his title. I would rather have this entire text moved to the "Sant Dnyaneshwar" page and have the searches for "Dnyaneshwar" redirect there, instead of having it the other way round. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkdeshmukh (talkcontribs) 19:43, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


@ Amitrochates there is one most important thing we have missed to mention that Sant Dnyaneshwar is also reffered as "MAULI" (माऊली) THE MOTHER. Its the most common name devotees use to reffer sant Dnyaneshwar. We often use Mauli Dnyaneshwar, Even the officail website of Sant Dnyaneshwar Maharaj Sansthan comitee is also named as mauli alandi. He is the only Saint in whole Varkari sampradaya who is a musculine but got the degree of Mother (feminine) by saying MAAULI. Swapniladitya 11 Apr 2015, 11:23

Image[edit]

About the photo: Is different from most available pictures. This picture looks like that of an older man, not someone of age 21 or under Wikwiki (talk) 05:39, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Image2[edit]

About the image shown in the article as Sant Dnyaneshwar: Its not the real picture of sant dnyandev as its showing the age more than 21 year and he never holded 'Chipali's" in his hands. We can better use the traditional picture of Sant Dnyaneshvar maharaj, If link given to me I can send wiki the same. swapniladitya (talk) 10:39, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

  • The image used File:Jnandev.jpg is an encyclopedic image printed by the press of artist Raja Ravi Verma who is known for his mythological art in 1910s. Although you might disagree with some iconographies of the image like chipalis or maybe clothes or dislike the way he looks older than what you perceive him to be, the image is a widely known one and hence can be used. Although, if you prefer a better image of his, you can suggest that if its in public domain. I will be happy to change the image to a better one which matches with more popular and common depictions of Dnyaneshwar. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:58, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Mauli

As mentioned above that the picture which was there been paintend by Raja ravi verma but in Varkari Cult the authorised image of Sant Dnyaneshwar is of the image shown at the age of 16 years ...first painted by Sant Shri Gulabrao maharaj (dnyaneshwar kanya). The whole Varkari cult uses/worships this image and this only image is authorised image of Sant Dnyaneshwar....swapnil Kapsikar As I a part of this cult and author of the only authorised non profit website on Wari (www.warisantanchi.com) I can surely say that... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swapniladitya (talkcontribs) 12:40, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Swapniladitya, so far you have uploaded only one image of Dnyaneshwar (one on the right). IMO, Raja Ravi Verma's painting is better for the infobox. Your image can be added elsewhere in the article. Unless you plan to upload the "authorised image", I am afraid the RRV image will have to do. {pinged Dharmadhyaksha} Amitrochates (talk) 04:28, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Amitrochates Hi, 1- I Have uploaded this image of Sant Dnyaneshwar is the deity (silver Mask) placed on the Samadhi (stone) and decorated with flowers calles POSHAKH. I am not able to get the concern "authorised image", Can you please explain me... 2- The Image you used was painted by Raja Ravi Verma is no where in use of the

cult...We are supprised by the presence of it on WIKI...I am in the contacts with all the trustees (Shir Samt Dnyaneshwar maharaj Sansthan commitee, Alandi Dewachi) and notable varkari's in the Varkari cult but no one is agree with such image (Raja Ravi Verma). I think we need take some extra initiative for this particular issue....Waiting for your response...please have a look on the authorised website of Sant dnyaneshwar maharaj sansthan Comitee (http://www.maulialandi.com/) Swapniladitya

Hi Swapniladitya, I agree that the image is not very "authentic". For one, in Raja Ravi Verma's paintings, Dnyaneshwar and Tukaram look exactly the same. However, an infobox image has to be illustrative. In the silver mask image, Sant Dnyaneshwar is hardly visible. So, I don't think the silver mask image is ideal for the infobox. I'll wait for your and Dharmadhyaksha's comments on this. Amitrochates (talk) 15:29, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
PS This image is quite alright, but Abweb Infosolutions has the copyright. Getting it into public domain is going to be difficult. Amitrochates (talk) 15:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

@ Amitrochates , 1- As you mentioned that This iamge is copyright by the Abweb solution is not right this image is a public image and no one has the copyright for this...Abweb solutions are the Vendor of Sant dnyaneshwar Maharaj Sansthan comittee.Alandi Dewachi. Abweb does not hold any copyright in the Varkari cult...There was a similar image uploaded by me previously....Please get this cleat that there is no copyright of any image and if someone does it,it's not the proper way. 2- In Raja Ravi Verma's paintings Sant Dnyaneshwar maharaj seems to be too old. And as you mentioned earlier that they Sant Tukaram & Sant Dnyanwshwar look exactly the same. But the reality is that, Sant Dnyaneshwar was only 22 yrs when he took samadhi, And Sant Tukaram went to Vaikuntha (sadeha) at the age of 45yrs, then how could there look be same..Even the difference between there ministry is of 300yrs.I dont know why you want copyright ??? There is no copyright of any image of maauli Dnyaneshwar. Swapniladitya — Preceding undated comment added 17:25, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Swapniladitya, you've uploaded images to Commons before. You know how it works. I don't need a copyright, but someone there will delete the image is it doesn't conform to our image use policy. You can try uploading the image there again with the explanation you give above. And please link the discussion here. I'll try to participate in it. Amitrochates (talk) 18:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

@ Amitrochates Hi, I have uploaded some images of Dnyaneshwar and also mentioned some of the links from WIKIPEDIA itself that where of this posture/Image been used by Government of India, Please have a look into this...under (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dnyaneshwar) Swapniladitya — Preceding undated comment added 15:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

 Done Swapniladitya, I have added the Mauli to Sant Dnyaneshwar's titles/honours in the infobox.[1] I have also used Dnyaneshwar2.jpg in the infobox. Please have a look at the article now. Regards. Amitrochates (talk) 18:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@ Amitrochates Thanks a TON, I think this is the great greeting I have heard in my entire life..On the MUHURTA of AKSHAY TRITIYA we are now able to see the Image of MAAULI...Thanks to YOU.... Swapniladitya 21.04.2015, 10:47 — Preceding undated comment added 09:48, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Birth Place :- Apegaon or Alandi[edit]

Hi Wiki, In the section of "Early life" reference from Hindu Spirituality: Postclassical and Modern Page -33, where it is mentioned that (in the 6th line) When Ramashrama discovered that Vitthalapant had left his family behind to become a monk, he instructed Vitthalapant to go back to his wife and perform his duties as a householder. After Vitthalapant returned to his wife and settled down in Alandi, Rakhumabai gave birth to four children—Nivruttinath (1273 CE), Dnyaneshwar (1275 CE), Sopana (1277 CE) and Muktabai (1279 CE).[19]...If its mentioned above that Vitthalpant returned and settled down in Alandi, then Rukhmabai gave birth to four children, that means the Birth place should be "Alandi" not Apegaon.... There are some proofs from which we can say that the birth place of Sant Dnyaneshwar is Alandi 1- There is a pipal tree called SUVARNA PIMPAL (सुवर्ण पिंपळ -GOLDEN PIPAL TREE) in Sant Dnyaneshwar Samadhi mandir, Alandi where rukhmabai prayed and performed 1 Lac arounds (प्रदक्षिणा) as a part of ritual to get her husband back to normal life (संसारिक), This means Rukhmabai was in alandi.(reference of this pipal tree at alandi Sant Tukaram in his abhanga says "जयाचिये द्वारी सोन्याचा पिंपळ")

2- In the 8th line of the same section it is mentioned :- Orthodox Brahmins of the day saw a renunciate returning to his life as a householder as heresy; Vitthalapant and his family were persecuted because of this...As per the proofs it's well known that the family then lived in the place called siddhabet(सिद्धबेट) in the alandi village where person named BHOJLING (भोजलिंग:- his temple is located in the same are of Samadhi Mandir,Alandi) took care of this family.

need discussion on the above issue.... Swapniladitya 02 May 2015, 12

Here i want to give some references on the above subject : As we all know that the real name of Alandi in history is "ALANKAPURI-अलंकापुरी "

1- संतांचा महिमा वर्णावा किती । अलक्ष मूर्ति ज्ञानोबा तो ॥१॥ अर्जुना संकट पडता जडभारी । गीता सांगे हरी कुरुक्षेत्री ॥२॥ तोचि अवतार धरी अलंकापुरी । ज्ञानाबाई सुंदरी तारावया ॥३॥ abhanga by Sant Eknath maharaj (श्री संत एकनाथ महाराज अभंग गाथा क्रमांक. ३५६१.)

2- अधिक सत्त्याष्णव शके अकराशती । श्रावणमास तिथी कृष्णाष्टमी ॥१॥ वर्षाऋतु युवा नाम संवत्सर । उगवे निशाकर रात्रीमाजी ॥२॥ पंचमहापातकी तारावया जन । झाले नारायण मृत्युलोका ॥३॥ नामा म्हणे पूर्णब्रम्ह ज्ञानेश्वर । घेतसे अवतार अलंकापुरी ॥४॥ abhanga by Sant Namdeo Maharaj (reference:- पांगारकर कृत ज्ञानेश्वरचरित्र पान क्रमांक ४६)

Both the references can be available in the book सार्थ ज्ञानेश्वरी प्रस्तावना by प्रो.सोनोपंत दांडेकर (first eidition 08 Dec 1996)

Swapniladitya 20 May 2015, 08:16 IST

__________________________________________________________

Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. Many sources including the ones in the article and Maharashtra State Gazetteers agree that Vitthalapant had shifted to Alandi after marriage and list Alandi as Dnyaneshwar's place of Birth. (this for instance also gives Alandi as Dnyaneshwar's place of birth). So, I have gone ahead and changed his place of birth in the infobox.[2] If, however, there are reliable sources that consider Apegaon as the place of his birth we might have to go with "Apegaon/Alandi" in the infobox. Regards. Amitrochates (talk) 23:18, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

@ Amitrochates , some has again changed the birth place from Alandi to Apegaon. We had the detail discussion on the same topic above. Please can you amend this ? We have contradictions again with the same topic on the same page. Early life section says "After Vitthalapant returned to his wife and settled down in Alandi, Rakhumabai gave birth to four children—Nivruttinath (1273 CE), Dnyaneshwar (1275 CE), Sopana (1277 CE) and Muktabai (1279 CE).[19]." and the topic & page head suggest the place of birth is Apegaon. On the another page 'MUKTABAI' the sister of Dnyaneshwar says the birth place is Alandi. If four of these Nivrutti, Dnyaneshwar, Sopan, Muktabai are born in one village how come "WIKI" is dividing it through the information updated. Please get this contradiction clear. Swapniladitya 23 Aug 2016, 10:13 BST —Preceding undated comment added 09:13, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 8 September 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. There is a clear consensus in favour of the move, with valid reasoning per WP:COMMONNAME. Furthermore, the proposed title is the long term title, before it was moved without discussion. Note: I will request admin assistance to carry out the move. (Done). (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 11:02, 22 September 2015 (UTC)



JñāneśvarDnyaneshwar – The current name,i.e. Jñāneśvar seems to have only 20 hits on Google scholar compared to 2300 for the alternative spelling Dnyaneshwar. Even when one adds other search terms such as Sant , Saint or Varkari, in order to filter hits related to the saint, one still gets far more hits at 215, 182 and 71 respectively than the 20 with Jñāneśvar alone as a term. Furthermore, respected authors on Marathi Varkari saints such as Glushkova, Zelliot, Novetzke, Mokashi etc. all call him Dnyaneshwar. That being so, I would like to request that the name be changed to Dnyaneshwar per WP:COMMONNAME . Thank you Jonathansammy (talk) 21:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose There is no standardised form aside from the Library of Kolkota standard for Marathi. Your google hits are almost matched by the number for Jnanshwar, which is the non-diacritic form of Jñāneśvar, and by the form Jnaneshvar. Your apparent consensus is an illusion caused by ad-hoc transliterations. Ogress 22:38, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support: The word "Dnyaneshwar" is written as "ज्ञानेश्वर" in Devnagari. The discussion point over here is what is been commonly written for the letter "ज्ञ". In most of the cases, it written as "Dnya". If you check similar words containing "ज्ञ" like ज्ञानी (Dnyani), ज्ञान (Dnyan), ज्ञानियांचा (Dnyaniyancha), यज्ञ (Yadnya) etc.; we see similar letter used. We should change to Dnyaneshwar. 07:00, 9 September 2015 (UTC)Yogee23 (talk)
Comment, I'm sorry, did you mean jnana and yajna? I beg to differ that we romanise them with a d. That's a letter j. It's pronounced j. Ogress 08:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Comment Hi Ogress, you say and I quote "That's a letter j. It's pronounced j". As I said before, in Marathi, the pronunciation of letter "ज्ञ" comes nowhere near "J". The accepted English spelling of the name has been Dnyaneshwar with the soft D sound at the beginning. Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 14:19, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Comment, The letter "ज्ञ" in Marathi is always pronounced Dnya with soft D (sounds like the word "The") and not like "Gya" in other languages. Please provide reference for Library of Kolkota standard for Marathi. Even then, WP:COMMONNAME applies and the name should revert back to Dnyneshwar.Jonathansammy (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
National Library at Kolkata romanization. Who was romanising it "Gyaneshwar"? I wasn't doing anything of the sort. This is the romanisation of the spelling: jñā ne śvar are the three syllables comprising this word. Ogress 18:34, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Jonathansammy "Soft d" is not a linguistic description or even a folk description. What is a "soft d"? Ogress 14:42, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Hi Ogress. Agree, it is not a linguistic description. However, "soft D" is what the English word "The" sounds like and I am sure , you will agree that, that word sounds nothing like the letter "J". If there is linguistic description for anything that sounds like "The" in the Kolkata manual , then let us know. Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 16:51, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Half of Hinduism's pages are moved by vandals or well-meaning but new Wikipedians to weird spellings. I do a ton of housecleaning; this includes fixing strange romanisations. You listed one more than one of these routine fixes as undiscussed moves: do you really think it was incorrect to fix bhagavathi or the other spelling errors? Ogress 18:58, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Comment We are talking about Dnyaneshwar here and not bhagavathi. Is it Wikipedia policy that romanisation per National Library at Kolkata romanization should be followed ? If so please let us know. Most English language historians and social scientists have called him Dnyaneshwar and therefore once again WP:COMMONNAME applies. Check these references [3], [4],[5],[6],[7]

Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

You asked why the page was moved, so I answered. Ogress 21:10, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Picking up Bhagavati for example was a wrong one. Had the goddess been in Northern India "Bhagavati" would be the right one. Being largely worshipped in Southern India "Bhagavathi", the initial spelling, was the right one. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:52, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
While searching "bhagavati temple kerala" even Goggle says Did you mean: bhagavathi temple kerala. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:56, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── NGRAM Ogress 04:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Does you link tell us about which Bhagavati they are discussing? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:17, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support: Dnyaneshwar is a WP:COMMONNAME. Wikipedia articles are not academic PhD thesis to write name as Jñāneśvar. Literal trasliteration of devanagari word "ज्ञानेश्वर" is "Dnyaneshwar". And obviously it is used in several reliable sources as shown by earlier users. It doesn't matters to Wikipedia what this poet is named in Marathi language, it is only about his actual name, common name and reliable name, and Dnyaneshwar fulfills all criteria. I think all article names in which IAST is used should be changed. Recently Cārvāka has been moved to Charvaka after discussion with 9 supports and expected one oppose. Thank you. --Human3015TALK  20:18, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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